Australian Politics Forum - No more ‘anchor babies’

sir prince duke alevine

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Re: No more ‘anchor babies’
Reply #105 - Oct 6^th, 2014 at 1:03pm

longweekend58 wrote on Oct 6^th, 2014 at 12:49pm:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Oct 6^th, 2014 at 8:59am:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Oct 6^th, 2014 at 6:06am:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Oct 3^rd, 2014 at 11:48am:

Quote:

Correct. It's not illegal to arrive by boat, provided you have a passport and visa, however. You can't expect to rock up without them and be allowed to roam free just because you say you're a refugee!

It's also not illegal to arrive without a passport or visa.
The refugee convention allows for detainment for identification purposes. But as soon as that is done, yes, it is expected that asylum seekers have their claims processed qucikly, and if determined to be refugees then they get protection visas and are more than able to roam the streets, get a job, etc. etc.

It seems you are still quite clueless on the actual domestic laws, and conventions we've signed. Repeating stupidity doesn't eventually make you any smarter.

You can sail your yacht into Sydney Harbour from abroad without a passport. However, Customs and Immigration Officers will arrest you if you try to get off it without a valid passport and visa. It is illegal to enter Australia without a valid passport and visa. You can't even board a flight in Indonesia bound for Australia without a passport and visa - you won't even make it to Customs because the airline staff won't give you a boarding pass at check-in. How much longer will you insist on your idiotic view that you don't need a passport to come here???

omg are you trying to steal the misinformed award from longie? Relax, you guys can share it.

For the last time. It is NOT illegal to enter this country without a visa. It is UNLAWFUL. And if you're an asylum seeker who is found to have a legitimate refugee claim then IT DOESn"T EVEN MATTER because you END UP WITH A VISA.

SO... AGAIN...and HOPEFULLY FOR THE LAST TIME.... HOW CAN A REFUGEE BE ILLEGAL?

that is silly. the words have IDENTICAL MEANING in law. IDENTICAL. no visa, no entry. it is really that simple.

No they don't. Idiot, you can't even get that after reading about it. dam stooooopid.

And again, HOW CAN A

REFUGEE

be illegal? Grin

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Disclaimer for Mothra per POST so it is forever acknowledged: Saying 'Islam' or 'Muslims' doesn't mean ALL muslims. This does not target individual muslims who's opinion I am not aware of.

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longweekend58

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Re: No more ‘anchor babies’
Reply #106 - Oct 6^th, 2014 at 4:33pm

John Smith wrote on Oct 6^th, 2014 at 8:45am:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Oct 6^th, 2014 at 6:06am:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Oct 3^rd, 2014 at 11:48am:

Quote:

Correct. It's not illegal to arrive by boat, provided you have a passport and visa, however. You can't expect to rock up without them and be allowed to roam free just because you say you're a refugee!

It's also not illegal to arrive without a passport or visa.
The refugee convention allows for detainment for identification purposes. But as soon as that is done, yes, it is expected that asylum seekers have their claims processed qucikly, and if determined to be refugees then they get protection visas and are more than able to roam the streets, get a job, etc. etc.

It seems you are still quite clueless on the actual domestic laws, and conventions we've signed. Repeating stupidity doesn't eventually make you any smarter.

You can sail your yacht into Sydney Harbour from abroad without a passport. However, Customs and Immigration Officers will arrest you if you try to get off it without a valid passport and visa. It is illegal to enter Australia without a valid passport and visa. You can't even board a flight in Indonesia bound for Australia without a passport and visa - you won't even make it to Customs because the airline staff won't give you a boarding pass at check-in. How much longer will you insist on your idiotic view that you don't need a passport to come here???

if you were to get of that yacht and make your way to the nearest person of authority (or try to) and claim asylum, nothing you have done is considered illegal.

Have they entered the country YES, legally.

wrong, dead wrong and you continue to state it in direct opposition to the law and to all information shown you. Now this is where you say... 'prove it' and the cycle starts all over again.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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longweekend58

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Re: No more ‘anchor babies’
Reply #107 - Oct 6^th, 2014 at 4:35pm

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Oct 6^th, 2014 at 12:59pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Oct 6^th, 2014 at 12:45pm:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Oct 5^th, 2014 at 11:39pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Oct 3^rd, 2014 at 7:34pm:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Oct 2^nd, 2014 at 6:35pm:

Animal Mutha wrote on Oct 2^nd, 2014 at 6:26pm:

I'm glad you aren't in charge. It's reassuring that your silly opinions don't go any further than this left run crappy forum.

opinions? What you've quoted is not my opinion. It's not debatable whether the refugee convention says to ignore the method of entry. It's a fact that it does. It's not debatable whether we must process each claim for asylum we receive. The refugee convention makes it so. It's a fact. It's also not debatable that laws that are broken can be done in either an illegal way, or an unlawful way. That too, is a fact.

learn the difference between opinions and facts, jockey.

PROVE IT. And I mean it. and btw do you know the difference between a convention and law? breaking the former is a 'tut-tut' and the latter is a CRIME.

The refugee convention doesn't explicitly say to ignore the "legality" of the entry by a refugee? Are you seriously THIS STUPID? Grin

did you just say that the refugee convention DOESNT say that it is legal for a refugee to enter any country???? isn't that precisely what I have been saying?

The refugee convention places no determination on whether a method of entry is legal or not. All it does is say that IN THE EVENT OF ILLEGAL ENTRY THEN IT DOESN'T MATTER. In our case it isn't illegal, it's unlawful. And still doesn't matter.

So...if you were trying to talk about the refugee convention specifying the legalities of travelling then I'd suggest you need to brush up on conventions vs domestic law yourself, dippy Grin

PROVE IT. show the text. and keep in mind that it is a CONVENTION, not law. it cannot make a legal determination of any kind that is applicable in Australia. the UN simply does not have the right. now if you want to quote the migration act where it says you can arrive without a visa LEGALLY then you have a point. but you cant, because it doesn't.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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longweekend58

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Re: No more ‘anchor babies’
Reply #108 - Oct 6^th, 2014 at 4:38pm

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Oct 6^th, 2014 at 1:02pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Oct 6^th, 2014 at 12:47pm:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Oct 5^th, 2014 at 11:41pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Oct 3^rd, 2014 at 7:38pm:

we might be onto something... I think you think that 'illegal' means going to jail. It doesn't. it simply means 'against the law' and so yes, as trivial as it sounds jaywalking where prohibited IS illegal ie against the law.

http://www.quickanddirtytips.com/business-career/legal/unlawful-versus-illegal

did you even read it? it stated that they are the same thing. the SLIGHT semantic difference has zero effect in law.

you've read "unlawful and illegal can get you into trouble" as zero effect in law? Are you seriously THIS dam DUMB!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?! I recognise most jebus worshippers have little ability to assess information, but the fact that unlawful acts can still get you into trouble is hardly the same as saying "zero effect in law." There is a reason that the different terms are used at different times. And as has been said time and time again, something unlawful is NOT illegal. It's UNLAWFUL.

So, you can say that asylum seekers arriving without a visa are acting unlawfully. But not ILLEGALLY. And, who cares in the end because they have every right to arrive unlawfully in this country and still seek asylum. Why? Because we are signatories to the refugee convention, which explicitely says so

And if they are proven to have a genuine claim then they are given refugee status. At which point there is NOTHING ILLEGAL ABOUT IT. Hence, you CAN'T HAVE AN ILLEGAL REFUGEE. Hence, you've been an idiot for 3 pages. Grin

no one has ever accused Russians of being intelligent and you are surely proving the point. in the context of Australian law - and in any dictionary or literature - unlawful and illegal are IDENTICAL. The criminal act stats that homicide is an unlawful act. Are you going to claim that it couldbe legal yet unlawful?

you are just taking over from the now disgraced peccahead trying to imagine there is some difference between the words. there is NONE as confirmed even by the article you linked to.

you really are turning into a very silly person and the motive is... to criticise Abbott. that is all. You are looking very silly.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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DaS Energy

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Re: No more ‘anchor babies’
Reply #109 - Oct 6^th, 2014 at 5:48pm

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Oct 6^th, 2014 at 1:03pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Oct 6^th, 2014 at 12:49pm:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Oct 6^th, 2014 at 8:59am:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Oct 6^th, 2014 at 6:06am:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Oct 3^rd, 2014 at 11:48am:

Quote:

Correct. It's not illegal to arrive by boat, provided you have a passport and visa, however. You can't expect to rock up without them and be allowed to roam free just because you say you're a refugee!

It's also not illegal to arrive without a passport or visa.
The refugee convention allows for detainment for identification purposes. But as soon as that is done, yes, it is expected that asylum seekers have their claims processed qucikly, and if determined to be refugees then they get protection visas and are more than able to roam the streets, get a job, etc. etc.

It seems you are still quite clueless on the actual domestic laws, and conventions we've signed. Repeating stupidity doesn't eventually make you any smarter.

You can sail your yacht into Sydney Harbour from abroad without a passport. However, Customs and Immigration Officers will arrest you if you try to get off it without a valid passport and visa. It is illegal to enter Australia without a valid passport and visa. You can't even board a flight in Indonesia bound for Australia without a passport and visa - you won't even make it to Customs because the airline staff won't give you a boarding pass at check-in. How much longer will you insist on your idiotic view that you don't need a passport to come here???

omg are you trying to steal the misinformed award from longie? Relax, you guys can share it.

For the last time. It is NOT illegal to enter this country without a visa. It is UNLAWFUL. And if you're an asylum seeker who is found to have a legitimate refugee claim then IT DOESn"T EVEN MATTER because you END UP WITH A VISA.

SO... AGAIN...and HOPEFULLY FOR THE LAST TIME.... HOW CAN A REFUGEE BE ILLEGAL?

that is silly. the words have IDENTICAL MEANING in law. IDENTICAL. no visa, no entry. it is really that simple.

No they don't. Idiot, you can't even get that after reading about it. dam stooooopid.

And again, HOW CAN A

REFUGEE

be illegal? Grin

A refugee "a person who is outside their home country because they have suffered (or feared) persecution on account of race, religion, nationality, political" is an illegal if found in another country! Should they have a visa to be in that country they not be an illegal.

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John Smith

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Re: No more ‘anchor babies’
Reply #110 - Oct 6^th, 2014 at 5:51pm

longweekend58 wrote on Oct 6^th, 2014 at 4:33pm:

John Smith wrote on Oct 6^th, 2014 at 8:45am:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Oct 6^th, 2014 at 6:06am:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Oct 3^rd, 2014 at 11:48am:

Quote:

Correct. It's not illegal to arrive by boat, provided you have a passport and visa, however. You can't expect to rock up without them and be allowed to roam free just because you say you're a refugee!

It's also not illegal to arrive without a passport or visa.
The refugee convention allows for detainment for identification purposes. But as soon as that is done, yes, it is expected that asylum seekers have their claims processed qucikly, and if determined to be refugees then they get protection visas and are more than able to roam the streets, get a job, etc. etc.

It seems you are still quite clueless on the actual domestic laws, and conventions we've signed. Repeating stupidity doesn't eventually make you any smarter.

You can sail your yacht into Sydney Harbour from abroad without a passport. However, Customs and Immigration Officers will arrest you if you try to get off it without a valid passport and visa. It is illegal to enter Australia without a valid passport and visa. You can't even board a flight in Indonesia bound for Australia without a passport and visa - you won't even make it to Customs because the airline staff won't give you a boarding pass at check-in. How much longer will you insist on your idiotic view that you don't need a passport to come here???

if you were to get of that yacht and make your way to the nearest person of authority (or try to) and claim asylum, nothing you have done is considered illegal.

Have they entered the country YES, legally.

wrong, dead wrong and you continue to state it in direct opposition to the law and to all information shown you. Now this is where you say... 'prove it' and the cycle starts all over again.

it is not dead wrong you buffoon ... and yes, it is up to you to prove your claim ... show me just one instance where a yachtsman was charged for illegally entering Sydney harbor ?

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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chicken_lipsforme Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 7090 Townsville NQ Gender:	Re: No more ‘anchor babies’ Reply #111 - Oct 6^th, 2014 at 5:54pm Armchair_Politician wrote on Oct 1^st, 2014 at 5:43am: Good job, Mr Morrison! Thousands of genuine refugees who did the right thing and have been able to come here are grateful for you saving their place instead of giving it to the queue-jumpers Labor and the Greens have so loved in years past. Exactly.
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longweekend58

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Re: No more ‘anchor babies’
Reply #112 - Oct 6^th, 2014 at 6:40pm

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Oct 6^th, 2014 at 1:03pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Oct 6^th, 2014 at 12:49pm:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Oct 6^th, 2014 at 8:59am:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Oct 6^th, 2014 at 6:06am:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Oct 3^rd, 2014 at 11:48am:

Quote:

Correct. It's not illegal to arrive by boat, provided you have a passport and visa, however. You can't expect to rock up without them and be allowed to roam free just because you say you're a refugee!

It's also not illegal to arrive without a passport or visa.
The refugee convention allows for detainment for identification purposes. But as soon as that is done, yes, it is expected that asylum seekers have their claims processed qucikly, and if determined to be refugees then they get protection visas and are more than able to roam the streets, get a job, etc. etc.

It seems you are still quite clueless on the actual domestic laws, and conventions we've signed. Repeating stupidity doesn't eventually make you any smarter.

You can sail your yacht into Sydney Harbour from abroad without a passport. However, Customs and Immigration Officers will arrest you if you try to get off it without a valid passport and visa. It is illegal to enter Australia without a valid passport and visa. You can't even board a flight in Indonesia bound for Australia without a passport and visa - you won't even make it to Customs because the airline staff won't give you a boarding pass at check-in. How much longer will you insist on your idiotic view that you don't need a passport to come here???

omg are you trying to steal the misinformed award from longie? Relax, you guys can share it.

For the last time. It is NOT illegal to enter this country without a visa. It is UNLAWFUL. And if you're an asylum seeker who is found to have a legitimate refugee claim then IT DOESn"T EVEN MATTER because you END UP WITH A VISA.

SO... AGAIN...and HOPEFULLY FOR THE LAST TIME.... HOW CAN A REFUGEE BE ILLEGAL?

that is silly. the words have IDENTICAL MEANING in law. IDENTICAL. no visa, no entry. it is really that simple.

No they don't. Idiot, you can't even get that after reading about it. dam stooooopid.

And again, HOW CAN A

REFUGEE

be illegal? Grin

a refugee cannot be illegal, but a refugee - like anyone - can commit illegal acts. entering a country without express permission is an illegal act. it is also unlawful and any other synonyms you come up with. NO COUNTRY anywhere tells the worlds refugees that they can come any way they want and all will be forgiven. That just exists in your head.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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longweekend58

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Re: No more ‘anchor babies’
Reply #113 - Oct 6^th, 2014 at 6:43pm

John Smith wrote on Oct 6^th, 2014 at 5:51pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Oct 6^th, 2014 at 4:33pm:

John Smith wrote on Oct 6^th, 2014 at 8:45am:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Oct 6^th, 2014 at 6:06am:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Oct 3^rd, 2014 at 11:48am:

Quote:

Correct. It's not illegal to arrive by boat, provided you have a passport and visa, however. You can't expect to rock up without them and be allowed to roam free just because you say you're a refugee!

It's also not illegal to arrive without a passport or visa.
The refugee convention allows for detainment for identification purposes. But as soon as that is done, yes, it is expected that asylum seekers have their claims processed qucikly, and if determined to be refugees then they get protection visas and are more than able to roam the streets, get a job, etc. etc.

It seems you are still quite clueless on the actual domestic laws, and conventions we've signed. Repeating stupidity doesn't eventually make you any smarter.

You can sail your yacht into Sydney Harbour from abroad without a passport. However, Customs and Immigration Officers will arrest you if you try to get off it without a valid passport and visa. It is illegal to enter Australia without a valid passport and visa. You can't even board a flight in Indonesia bound for Australia without a passport and visa - you won't even make it to Customs because the airline staff won't give you a boarding pass at check-in. How much longer will you insist on your idiotic view that you don't need a passport to come here???

if you were to get of that yacht and make your way to the nearest person of authority (or try to) and claim asylum, nothing you have done is considered illegal.

Have they entered the country YES, legally.

wrong, dead wrong and you continue to state it in direct opposition to the law and to all information shown you. Now this is where you say... 'prove it' and the cycle starts all over again.

it is not dead wrong you buffoon ... and yes, it is up to you to prove your claim ... show me just one instance where a yachtsman was charged for illegally entering Sydney harbor ?

unbelievable.... are you even aware of maritime law where you cannot even enter a countries waters without permission? You seem to have this incredibly stupid idea that anyone can just roll up regardless. I am staggered that anyone can be quite that stupid. every nation on earth protects its borders. every single one. and yet you think anyone on a boat can come here legally. There is no level of proof possible to convince you otherwise because that would require an intelligence and character you so obviously lack.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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John Smith Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 74966 Gender:	Re: No more ‘anchor babies’ Reply #114 - Oct 6^th, 2014 at 7:06pm longy stop telling us how great you are and show me one instance where a sailor entering Sydney harbour was ever charged ???? You think you can just make up claims and everyone will believe them?
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longweekend58

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Re: No more ‘anchor babies’
Reply #115 - Oct 6^th, 2014 at 8:31pm

John Smith wrote on Oct 6^th, 2014 at 7:06pm:

longy stop telling us how great you are and show me one instance where a sailor entering Sydney harbour was ever charged ????

You think you can just make up claims and everyone will believe them?

this is just getting more and more insane. why don't you show me an example of a sailor just coming into Sydney harbour and entering the city unchallenged by customs. Other than a couple of jap subs, I am aware of no such example.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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John Smith

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Re: No more ‘anchor babies’
Reply #116 - Oct 6^th, 2014 at 9:03pm

longweekend58 wrote on Oct 6^th, 2014 at 8:31pm:

John Smith wrote on Oct 6^th, 2014 at 7:06pm:

longy stop telling us how great you are and show me one instance where a sailor entering Sydney harbour was ever charged ????

You think you can just make up claims and everyone will believe them?

this is just getting more and more insane. why don't you show me an example of a sailor just coming into Sydney harbour and entering the city unchallenged by customs. Other than a couple of jap subs, I am aware of no such example.

I've never claimed anyone entered the harbour unchallenged ....

have you lost the plot completely?

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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longweekend58

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Re: No more ‘anchor babies’
Reply #117 - Oct 7^th, 2014 at 6:43am

John Smith wrote on Oct 6^th, 2014 at 9:03pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Oct 6^th, 2014 at 8:31pm:

John Smith wrote on Oct 6^th, 2014 at 7:06pm:

longy stop telling us how great you are and show me one instance where a sailor entering Sydney harbour was ever charged ????

You think you can just make up claims and everyone will believe them?

this is just getting more and more insane. why don't you show me an example of a sailor just coming into Sydney harbour and entering the city unchallenged by customs. Other than a couple of jap subs, I am aware of no such example.

I've never claimed anyone entered the harbour unchallenged ....

have you lost the plot completely?

well I suggest you just keep on believing the myths you create in your head. you keep believing that our borders are not really serious. the rest of us see the world as it actually is.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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John Smith

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Re: No more ‘anchor babies’
Reply #118 - Oct 7^th, 2014 at 8:17am

longweekend58 wrote on Oct 7^th, 2014 at 6:43am:

John Smith wrote on Oct 6^th, 2014 at 9:03pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Oct 6^th, 2014 at 8:31pm:

John Smith wrote on Oct 6^th, 2014 at 7:06pm:

longy stop telling us how great you are and show me one instance where a sailor entering Sydney harbour was ever charged ????

You think you can just make up claims and everyone will believe them?

this is just getting more and more insane. why don't you show me an example of a sailor just coming into Sydney harbour and entering the city unchallenged by customs. Other than a couple of jap subs, I am aware of no such example.

I've never claimed anyone entered the harbour unchallenged ....

have you lost the plot completely?

well I suggest you just keep on believing the myths you create in your head. you keep believing that our borders are not really serious. the rest of us see the world as it actually is.

is it like a cartoon in your head? are you Wile e Coyote? always trying but never getting it ??

Who said our borders are not serious?

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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Life_goes_on

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Re: No more ‘anchor babies’
Reply #119 - Oct 7^th, 2014 at 8:45am

For civilian vessels, you don't need any form of official permission to sail through Australian waters. You don't need a visa to travel through Australian waters.

It becomes an offense if those vessels birth or anchor anywhere other than at a proclaimed first port of entry - i.e. has customs and immigration facilities.

You will need a visa if you birth or anchor at a first port of entry - it doesn't matter if you intend to go ashore or stay aboard - although I think there's a few exceptions,

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"You're just one lucky motherf-cker" - Someone, 5th February 2013

Num num num num.

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