Remarkably, this is similar to what the Christian reformists wanted.  They wanted to get rid of the Church and it's teachings and corrupt practices, not what Christ said.   If it worked for them, why can't it work for Muslims, Soren?

Address the point I made, THEN you can obfuscate, Brain.

Remarkably, this is similar to what the Christian reformists wanted.  They wanted to get rid of the Church and it's teachings and corrupt practices, not what Christ said.   If it worked for them, why can't it work for Muslims, Soren?

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 5^th, 2014 at 7:25pm:



Because what Mohammed said and did is the problem for Islam. But there is no reforming that.

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 5^th, 2014 at 7:25pm:



That’s strange, because what Freud said and did was all about uncovering truth through patience and listening and paying attention to the details.

You gave all that up years ago to immerse yourself in your smug, self righteous campaign against the Muselman.

People rarely pay attention to their prophets, old boy. If you can forget the example of Freud in a couple of generations, you can hardly expect the allah-uabarers to be basing their lives on the actions of an eighth century desert mystic.

You don’t obey Freud, few Christians obey Christ, and most Muslims only obey Muhammed in the most shallow of ways.

What do you expect? Gud is great.

freediver wrote on Oct 5^th, 2014 at 7:46am:


um no, thats what the whole point I was making. Listen to what I say this time:


slaughtering women and babies *IS* supported by christian doctrine - it is specifically ordained as an act that will bring followers closer to God. I'm not making this up, its all there in Genesis.


Islamic doctrine on the other hand doesn't even mention the Qurayza executions - and it is certainly not something that is in any way framed as an "islamic" thing to do. It is merely a historical event carried out by the historical Muhammad. Do you see the difference?

freediver wrote on Oct 5^th, 2014 at 7:46am:



Christians need to reject an act that is a specific part of their doctrine - an act that their God ordains as bringing them closer to God.


This can't be easy, but they have done it. Muslims on the other hand are not even being asked to reject a part of doctrine - the actions of Muhammad as a political leader in a particular time and place is not islamic doctrine. He even said so himself - to follow him on religious guidance, but not on other matters.

gandalf,

God's word, the bible, makes it clear that blood-spilling judgement [even enacted on behalf of God] is NOT [necessarily] associated with righteousness [in a man].

In the 1st instance, judgement [against the wicked], and in the 2nd instance, the righteousness of the righteous, are completely separate issues.


Ah then, but what about God's command to the ancient Israelites to destroy all the people of nations, as per Deuteronomy 7:1-2 ?

Weren't the ancient Israelites justified, in obeying God's command ?

Yes the ancient Israelites were justified.

But God's law makes it clear that those ancient Israelites, who would have exacted those judgements [commanded by God], would been [would still have made themselves] unclean, in God's eyes.



And they would have had to cleanse themselves, before they could be welcomed back into the congregation of the Israelites.

Leviticus 5:1-3

Numbers 19:11, 16, 19


And that nature of personal 'uncleanliness' [in the act of killing], is also demonstrated by God [in the bible], in the example of King David.

e.g.
During his life, King David had 'slaughtered' many of the men of surrounding nations who were troubling Israel and her people.

And because King David had killed so many men, God disallowed David from building God's temple;

1 Chronicles 22:7
And David said to Solomon, My son, as for me, it was in my mind to build an house unto the name of the LORD my God:
8  But the word of the LORD came to me, saying, Thou hast shed blood abundantly, and hast made great wars: thou shalt not build an house unto my name, because thou hast shed much blood upon the earth in my sight.


1 Chronicles 28:3
But God said unto me, Thou shalt not build an house for my name, because thou hast been a man of war, and hast shed blood.


So, killing people, even righteously, makes us spiritually unclean.

Karnal wrote on Oct 6^th, 2014 at 1:15pm:



Yeah, I am not spouting Islamic slogans and have no weapons, have hurt no-one, nor do I threaten anyone who disagree with me. Otherwise it’s the same.



You are an idiot, PB.