Yadda wrote on Oct 12
th, 2014 at 9:36am:
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 11
th, 2014 at 5:33pm:
Quote:Judea and Samaria sound so much more appropriate descriptors than 'The West Bank', imo.
But hey, i'm biased too.
Yes, you are, aren't you, Y? I'm glad you recognise it. The West Bank is the correct term for that area of the region of Palestine. Just as Israel is another valid name for it's area of the region of Palestine.
Quote:Further, the Stone pamphlet which she allegedly quotes from appears flawed in it's reasoning IMHO and your attempt to use this as justification for annexation and ethnic cleansing is as well. While Israel may, by conquest be the occupying power that does not give it to the right to necessarily annex lands.
Brian,
That is incredible!!!!!!
Why so ?
Because it is
a religious and historical FACT that moslems think that this is a perfectly legal way [for moslems] to acquire land.
We aren't discussing Muslim belief or practice, Y. We are discussing Israeli belief and practice. If Muslims were to invade, occupy and attempt to annex an area of Israel, against International Law, I'd say the same thing.
Quote:Is your objection to the Jews annexing [what was] their [own] ancient homeland, because the Jews are not moslems ?
No, my objection is based on the fact that the Palestinians have been in possession for over a thousand plus years the land where they live. The Jews who created Israel are Johnny-come-latelies. Their claim to the land is tenuous. The Palestinians' based on solid documentation over that thousand plus years.
Quote:If so, isn't that form of argument, exposing a very 'racist' POV which you hold [in the trust of your argument] ?
No. You appear to feel I am biased towards the Palestinians in the same way you seem to be biased towards the Israelis. I am not. I am happy for the Israelis to live in the land which the International community ceded to them in 1948. It is their encroachment into lands which were not granted to them, that I take issue with, Y.
Quote: Quote:Further, if you really want to go down the route of international law in this way, I'd be careful as there is a good case which can be made against Israel in it's failings of it's responsibilities as an Occupying Power, Y.
Moot.
Never tested. You or the Israelis willing to submit their behaviour to proper, impartial, international scrutiny?
Quote: Quote:I suspect that as like many Christian Zionists you support Israel because of your belief in the reality of the Bible and the Jews as "the chosen people", am I correct, Y?
Very likely.
But it is also based upon the a need for common justice to be applied to the circumstances which the Jewish people have laboured under, since their return to their own ancient homeland.
Ah, but what then of the non-Jewish Israelis, Y? What of the idea of common justice being applied to what has been done to the Palestinian peoples since the creation of the state of Israel? You appear to want to only apply justice for one side of the dispute. The side you admit you are biased in favour of because of religious belief, not it appears any innate belief in real justice.
Quote:i.e.
The moslems surrounding Israel, are intent upon causing a genocide of the Jewish people.
This would explain why two out of the three main bordering states have concluded peace treaties with Israel?
Quote:Why so ?
Soley because the Jewish people have returned to their own ancient homeland.
A homeland where a surprisingly small number had actually live since the diaspora until the creation of the modern state.
Quote:[i]"Abdullah my brother, the Jews have take our land, and we are a homeless people.
WAIL! WAIL! WAIL!
Those dastardly Zionists!!
We want our land back."
Except Palestinians aren't citizens of any of those other nations, Y.
Quote: Quote:It is an article of faith for you. For the rest of the world, it's a much murkier world where precedent, agreement and acceptance are much more important.
For the rest of the world, it's a much more about 'Realpolitik' in the world, and about the real and diminished status of the Jewish people of Israel, among today's 'community' of nations. !!!!!!!!
Shame on people like you Brian, and shame on today's 'community' of nations !!!!!!
Why? I accept the right of the modern state to exist. So do the Palestinians. Very few nations don't.
Quote: Quote:The reality is, Israel has been engaged in Ethnic Cleansing and Imperialism in Palestine.
That is your expressed opinion.
It is not my opinion.
How do you characterise it?
[quote]
Yadda holds up a mirror to Brian.
Try applying that same
moral argument to moslems, who have been assailing the state of Israel [and murdering Jewish people], for more than 60 years, Brian!!!
I do, Y. I don't excuse their actions, any more than I excuse the Israelis. I do though, make an effort to understand them, Y. I also try and understand Israel's. You don't do that for either side.
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