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Is Australia Against Free Speech (Read 6477 times)
|dev|null
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Re: Is Australia Against Free Speech
Reply #15 - Oct 13th, 2014 at 1:44pm
 
The last picture is from Europe Soren not Australia.  It actually comes from the website "Democracy Web", where they say about Australia:

Quote:
Australia
Capital: Canberra
Population: 22,400,000
Freedom in the World Status: Free
Political Rights: 1*
Civil Liberties: 1*

* A rating of 1 indicates the highest level of freedom and 7 the lowest level of freedom in a country.


So, despite all the curbs supposedly on our freedom that Islam imposes with it's intimidation we still have the "highest level of freedom" from the very site you're citing evidence to the contrary!   
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« Last Edit: Oct 13th, 2014 at 2:14pm by polite_gandalf »  

"Pens and books are the weapons that defeat terrorism." - Malala Yousefzai, 2013.

"we will never ever solve violence while we grasp for overly simplistic solutions."
Freediver, 2007.
 
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Re: Is Australia Against Free Speech
Reply #16 - Oct 13th, 2014 at 6:24pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 13th, 2014 at 12:20pm:
Same deal as being offensive to islam - if its as part of specific vilification and stirring up intimidation and hate against a particular group - then no.

So sorry FD - this isn't about me, I'm sure you thought you'd catch me out being inconsistent, but I am not. This is about your hypocricy:

FD:

- people feel intimidated about mocking Islam - what an outrage!!
- Australia has a government that boasts holocaust denial is "unlawful" - umm... I'll pretend that didn't happen and ignore it.


So you support the right to deny the holocaust if it is not part of specific vilification?
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Re: Is Australia Against Free Speech
Reply #17 - Oct 13th, 2014 at 6:45pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 11th, 2014 at 12:55pm:
One should also remember Mr.Jones' public service announcements which rallied support to show beach users at Cronulla the correct Australian attitude towards those of "Middle-Eastern appearance"...   Roll Eyes

haha, I love how Alan Jones suddenly gets drawn into a discussion about free speech. To borrow from LTYC, his lips may be sewn to Abbott's arsehole, but he certainly doesn't represent Australia.

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 11th, 2014 at 6:46pm:
John Smith wrote on Oct 11th, 2014 at 6:09pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 11th, 2014 at 2:06pm:
George Brandis proudly boasted recently that holocaust denial will remain "unlawful".


the same guy that said everyone has a right to say what they like, even if they are bigots or you don't like what they are saying????


Unless they are from Hizb Tahrir...


Notwithstanding what these idiots say, your freedom to political communication is Constitutionally protected. There's a whole raft of High Court cases on it.

But, inciting violence is not protected as such. So f-wits like Hzib Tahrir may not be able to preach their brand of hate here, no.

I will lose a great deal of sleep over it  Roll Eyes
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See Profile For Update wrote on Jan 3rd, 2015 at 2:58pm:
Why the bugger did I get stuck on a planet chalked full of imbeciles?
 
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Re: Is Australia Against Free Speech
Reply #18 - Oct 13th, 2014 at 8:14pm
 
|dev|null wrote on Oct 13th, 2014 at 1:44pm:
The last picture is from Europe Soren not Australia.  It actually comes from the website "Democracy Web", where they say about Australia:

Quote:
Australia
Capital: Canberra
Population: 22,400,000
Freedom in the World Status: Free
Political Rights: 1*
Civil Liberties: 1*

* A rating of 1 indicates the highest level of freedom and 7 the lowest level of freedom in a country.


So, despite all the curbs supposedly on our freedom that Islam imposes with it's intimidation we still have the "highest level of freedom" from the very site you're citing evidence to the contrary!   
edit
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So you are not an idiot?
please explain.


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Brian Ross
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Re: Is Australia Against Free Speech
Reply #19 - Oct 14th, 2014 at 12:07am
 
MumboJumbo wrote on Oct 13th, 2014 at 6:45pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 11th, 2014 at 12:55pm:
One should also remember Mr.Jones' public service announcements which rallied support to show beach users at Cronulla the correct Australian attitude towards those of "Middle-Eastern appearance"...   Roll Eyes

haha, I love how Alan Jones suddenly gets drawn into a discussion about free speech. To borrow from LTYC, his lips may be sewn to Abbott's arsehole, but he certainly doesn't represent Australia.


I never claimed he did.  I'm rather surprised that you're trying to attribute to me the idea of suddenly drawing Allan Jones into the discussion as he was mentioned specifically in the first post in the thread.   I merely continued the theme laid out in the two preceding posts, making a point about his contribution to Multicultural tolerance in Australia.    Roll Eyes

Quote:
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 11th, 2014 at 6:46pm:
John Smith wrote on Oct 11th, 2014 at 6:09pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 11th, 2014 at 2:06pm:
George Brandis proudly boasted recently that holocaust denial will remain "unlawful".


the same guy that said everyone has a right to say what they like, even if they are bigots or you don't like what they are saying????


Unless they are from Hizb Tahrir...


Notwithstanding what these idiots say, your freedom to political communication is Constitutionally protected. There's a whole raft of High Court cases on it.


"Raft"?  I'm aware of a handful.  Freedom of Speech is not "Constitutionally protected" either because such a right is not named in the Constitution, it is an "implied Right" and one which has only been defined through those High Court cases, therefore to claim that it is "Constitutionally protected" is a complete Furphy.   Roll Eyes

Quote:
But, inciting violence is not protected as such. So f-wits like Hzib Tahrir may not be able to preach their brand of hate here, no.


Have they incited violence?  If they have, then they should be charged as such.  If they have not been charged, I must therefore assumed that they have not and have merely pointed out the hypocrisy of Brandis claiming he believes in Freedom of Speech yet wishes to limit it for political organisations who's message he disagrees with.    Roll Eyes

Quote:
I will lose a great deal of sleep over it  Roll Eyes


By all means do so, if you desire.   Appears to me you're getting hot under the collar for some reason.    Roll Eyes
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Lionel Edriess
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Re: Is Australia Against Free Speech
Reply #20 - Oct 14th, 2014 at 1:03am
 
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 14th, 2014 at 12:07am:
MumboJumbo wrote on Oct 13th, 2014 at 6:45pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 11th, 2014 at 12:55pm:
One should also remember Mr.Jones' public service announcements which rallied support to show beach users at Cronulla the correct Australian attitude towards those of "Middle-Eastern appearance"...   Roll Eyes

haha, I love how Alan Jones suddenly gets drawn into a discussion about free speech. To borrow from LTYC, his lips may be sewn to Abbott's arsehole, but he certainly doesn't represent Australia.


I never claimed he did.  I'm rather surprised that you're trying to attribute to me the idea of suddenly drawing Allan Jones into the discussion as he was mentioned specifically in the first post in the thread.   I merely continued the theme laid out in the two preceding posts, making a point about his contribution to Multicultural tolerance in Australia.    Roll Eyes

Quote:
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 11th, 2014 at 6:46pm:
John Smith wrote on Oct 11th, 2014 at 6:09pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 11th, 2014 at 2:06pm:
George Brandis proudly boasted recently that holocaust denial will remain "unlawful".


the same guy that said everyone has a right to say what they like, even if they are bigots or you don't like what they are saying????


Unless they are from Hizb Tahrir...


Notwithstanding what these idiots say, your freedom to political communication is Constitutionally protected. There's a whole raft of High Court cases on it.


"Raft"?  I'm aware of a handful.  Freedom of Speech is not "Constitutionally protected" either because such a right is not named in the Constitution, it is an "implied Right" and one which has only been defined through those High Court cases, therefore to claim that it is "Constitutionally protected" is a complete Furphy.   Roll Eyes

Quote:
But, inciting violence is not protected as such. So f-wits like Hzib Tahrir may not be able to preach their brand of hate here, no.


Have they incited violence?  If they have, then they should be charged as such.  If they have not been charged, I must therefore assumed that they have not and have merely pointed out the hypocrisy of Brandis claiming he believes in Freedom of Speech yet wishes to limit it for political organisations who's message he disagrees with.    Roll Eyes

Quote:
I will lose a great deal of sleep over it  Roll Eyes


By all means do so, if you desire.   Appears to me you're getting hot under the collar for some reason.    Roll Eyes


Still here?

Lack of argument, Brian?

All that 'man playing the ball' sort of thing?

Any comment about the double standards regarding 'hate speech', the preachers thereof or the packed audiences in our cities?

Of course, none of our local problems replicate those now showing in overseas nations.

In anticipation, Brian, I will admit that these terrorists are not indicative of the ideals of the 'majority' of Muslims in our country already. That I should not paint all Muslims as the same. We should already know that minorities pose disproportionate problems, that, over time will dissipate into mainstream local mores.

I'm learning, Brian, I'm learning.

Islam is an equal-opportunity genocidal infection.

All they have to is decide which Muslims are true Muslims.

The fate of the rest of us is already decided.

Lucky for me that I hide behind an internet alias - otherwise my connection would be terminated, I'd be being investigated by ASIO ( Cool) and my goats would be questioned (if not abducted).

Heard the latest conspiracy theory?

The 'freedom fighters' are considering injecting the Mujaheddin with Ebola virus and sending them on a holiday to Disneyland.

And you wonder why we bomb the .............  ?

What's the Army point of view?

I reckon the Muslims in this country need to do a little house-cleaning. Just to show they're fair dinkum.

What say?


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Re: Is Australia Against Free Speech
Reply #21 - Oct 14th, 2014 at 1:14am
 
I say Lionel that your opinions are nonsense.

When I see you calling for other religions to be held responsible in the same way that you want all Muslims to be held responsible for the actions of their co-religionists, I'll think you're not being hypocritical.

Until then, all you're saying is the same, tired old prejudicial and intolerant bullshit you've been saying for years, Lionel.   You used to say it against Asylum Seekers now your target is Muslims.   Roll Eyes
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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour.  Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Re: Is Australia Against Free Speech
Reply #22 - Oct 14th, 2014 at 9:00am
 
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 14th, 2014 at 1:14am:
I say Lionel that your opinions are nonsense.

When I see you calling for other religions to be held responsible in the same way that you want all Muslims to be held responsible for the actions of their co-religionists, I'll think you're not being hypocritical.

Until then, all you're saying is the same, tired old prejudicial and intolerant bullshit you've been saying for years, Lionel.   You used to say it against Asylum Seekers now your target is Muslims.   Roll Eyes



People's religions and ideologies do influence their behaviour, very significantly. These are conscious things people choose and cultivate.

Always insisting that Islam be exempt from this insight is dishonest, Brain.

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Re: Is Australia Against Free Speech
Reply #23 - Oct 14th, 2014 at 9:09am
 
freediver wrote on Oct 13th, 2014 at 6:24pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 13th, 2014 at 12:20pm:
Same deal as being offensive to islam - if its as part of specific vilification and stirring up intimidation and hate against a particular group - then no.

So sorry FD - this isn't about me, I'm sure you thought you'd catch me out being inconsistent, but I am not. This is about your hypocricy:

FD:

- people feel intimidated about mocking Islam - what an outrage!!
- Australia has a government that boasts holocaust denial is "unlawful" - umm... I'll pretend that didn't happen and ignore it.


So you support the right to deny the holocaust if it is not part of specific vilification?


Do you support the right to deny the holocaust?
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Re: Is Australia Against Free Speech
Reply #24 - Oct 14th, 2014 at 12:33pm
 
Soren wrote on Oct 13th, 2014 at 8:14pm:
|dev|null wrote on Oct 13th, 2014 at 1:44pm:
The last picture is from Europe Soren not Australia.  It actually comes from the website "Democracy Web", where they say about Australia:

Quote:
Australia
Capital: Canberra
Population: 22,400,000
Freedom in the World Status: Free
Political Rights: 1*
Civil Liberties: 1*

* A rating of 1 indicates the highest level of freedom and 7 the lowest level of freedom in a country.


So, despite all the curbs supposedly on our freedom that Islam imposes with it's intimidation we still have the "highest level of freedom" from the very site you're citing evidence to the contrary!   
edit
 Grin Grin Cheesy Cheesy Grin Grin Cheesy Cheesy Grin Grin

So you are not an idiot?
please explain.





Self evident.

Why is Gandalf giving you a free ride with insults, Soren?  Are you one of his pets or have you cowed him to the point where he can't act against your language for fear of claims he's biased against an Islamophobe?    Grin Grin Grin Cheesy Cheesy Grin Grin Grin
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"Pens and books are the weapons that defeat terrorism." - Malala Yousefzai, 2013.

"we will never ever solve violence while we grasp for overly simplistic solutions."
Freediver, 2007.
 
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Re: Is Australia Against Free Speech
Reply #25 - Oct 14th, 2014 at 2:20pm
 
freediver wrote on Oct 13th, 2014 at 6:24pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 13th, 2014 at 12:20pm:
Same deal as being offensive to islam - if its as part of specific vilification and stirring up intimidation and hate against a particular group - then no.

So sorry FD - this isn't about me, I'm sure you thought you'd catch me out being inconsistent, but I am not. This is about your hypocricy:

FD:

- people feel intimidated about mocking Islam - what an outrage!!
- Australia has a government that boasts holocaust denial is "unlawful" - umm... I'll pretend that didn't happen and ignore it.


So you support the right to deny the holocaust if it is not part of specific vilification?


Yup - just like I said.

See FD I'm not ashamed to advocate limits on free speech in the interests of protecting against vilification.

How about you?

- muslims saying prophet mocking should be banned = egregious attack on our freedoms
- people (including our own AG) saying holocaust denial should (and is) banned = ?????
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:
Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Re: Is Australia Against Free Speech
Reply #26 - Oct 14th, 2014 at 2:32pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 14th, 2014 at 2:20pm:
How about you?

- muslims saying prophet mocking should be banned = egregious attack on our freedoms
- people (including our own AG) saying holocaust denial should (and is) banned = ?????



I do not see how you can equate the publishing of cartoons, films and books that do not take Mohammed seriously IN NONMUSLIM, Western secular countries with the denial or discounting of systematic murders.

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Re: Is Australia Against Free Speech
Reply #27 - Oct 14th, 2014 at 4:26pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 14th, 2014 at 1:14am:
I say Lionel that your opinions are nonsense.

When I see you calling for other religions to be held responsible in the same way that you want all Muslims to be held responsible for the actions of their co-religionists, I'll think you're not being hypocritical.

Until then, all you're saying is the same, tired old prejudicial and intolerant bullshit you've been saying for years, Lionel.   You used to say it against Asylum Seekers now your target is Muslims.   Roll Eyes


Nonsense from a nice person who allows hate speech, as long as it is from a muslim source!!!!!!!!!

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« Last Edit: Oct 14th, 2014 at 6:17pm by polite_gandalf »  

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Re: Is Australia Against Free Speech
Reply #28 - Oct 14th, 2014 at 4:30pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 14th, 2014 at 2:20pm:
freediver wrote on Oct 13th, 2014 at 6:24pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 13th, 2014 at 12:20pm:
Same deal as being offensive to islam - if its as part of specific vilification and stirring up intimidation and hate against a particular group - then no.

So sorry FD - this isn't about me, I'm sure you thought you'd catch me out being inconsistent, but I am not. This is about your hypocricy:

FD:

- people feel intimidated about mocking Islam - what an outrage!!
- Australia has a government that boasts holocaust denial is "unlawful" - umm... I'll pretend that didn't happen and ignore it.


So you support the right to deny the holocaust if it is not part of specific vilification?


Yup - just like I said.

See FD I'm not ashamed to advocate limits on free speech in the interests of protecting against vilification.

How about you?

- muslims saying prophet mocking should be banned = egregious attack on our freedoms
- people (including our own AG) saying holocaust denial should (and is) banned = ?????


How about "No Muslim has EVER killed an innocent CHRISTIAN? or buggered em or raped um or shagged a slave of the filthy kuffar. Care to qualify that?
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Re: Is Australia Against Free Speech
Reply #29 - Oct 14th, 2014 at 9:04pm
 
Soren wrote on Oct 14th, 2014 at 9:00am:
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 14th, 2014 at 1:14am:
I say Lionel that your opinions are nonsense.

When I see you calling for other religions to be held responsible in the same way that you want all Muslims to be held responsible for the actions of their co-religionists, I'll think you're not being hypocritical.

Until then, all you're saying is the same, tired old prejudicial and intolerant bullshit you've been saying for years, Lionel.   You used to say it against Asylum Seekers now your target is Muslims.   Roll Eyes



People's religions and ideologies do influence their behaviour, very significantly. These are conscious things people choose and cultivate.


Yes, you're a good example of that, Soren, with your bigotry and religious persecution of Muslims.    Roll Eyes

Quote:
Always insisting that Islam be exempt from this insight is dishonest, Brain.


I don't.  What I do insist is that the insight is based on honest reasoning and intelligent criticism, not endless bigotry towards people merely because they share a religion with some zealots.

The fact that the similes which I put forward are ignored by you merely shows how deep into denial you are, Soren.   Roll Eyes
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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour.  Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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