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Most Need To Accept Wage Cuts Business Says (Read 4472 times)
crocodile
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Re: Most Need To Accept Wage Cuts Business Says
Reply #30 - Nov 6th, 2014 at 6:48am
 
Quote:
Its fascinating, 100 years ago, before minimum wage, before over regulations, wages for workers were increasing as fast as business profits, compare that to todays mess?

Seems to me free market capitalism worked better than today mixed economy.


They started from a low base. There is no doubt that GDP per capita and gini coefficient are far superior than what they were a century ago.
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Very funny Scotty, now beam down my clothes.
 
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Pantheon
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Re: Most Need To Accept Wage Cuts Business Says
Reply #31 - Nov 6th, 2014 at 7:05am
 
crocodile wrote on Nov 6th, 2014 at 6:44am:
Pantheon wrote on Nov 6th, 2014 at 4:55am:
I strongly agree that if unions and employees continue to expect inflation-linked pay rises without productivity improvements it would result in total disaster.

John Smith wrote on Nov 5th, 2014 at 8:22am:
the push to bring our wages to 3rd world standards is really in high gear now that the monkey is PM ...

business needs to accept that this isn't China and our wages need to match our costs of living ... when was the last time business accepted a cut in profits?


Majority of business are struggling and by pushing for inflation-linked pay rises without productivity improvements to pay for the increase in wages, all your doing is simply bankrupting the people who employ workers,

When i talk about business struggling i'm not talking about woolies, bunnies, Kmart, big business can handle inflation-linked pay rises without productivity improvements, but small/middle business like mine, just cant, and would ether push the rest of us overseas or bankruptcy, most business are struggling as bad as workers today.

Majority of business dont get corporate welfare and tax concessions often isnt that much, the left needs to stop views all business as one big business, because its not.


Not quite. Zero productivity growth means that wages track inflation closely. Wages fall behind inflation when productivity drops below zero.


Wrong - how do i know? i pay wages.
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[b][center]Socialism had been tried on every continent on earth. In light of its results, it's time to question the motives of its advocates.
 
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crocodile
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Re: Most Need To Accept Wage Cuts Business Says
Reply #32 - Nov 6th, 2014 at 7:17am
 
Pantheon wrote on Nov 6th, 2014 at 7:05am:
crocodile wrote on Nov 6th, 2014 at 6:44am:
Pantheon wrote on Nov 6th, 2014 at 4:55am:
I strongly agree that if unions and employees continue to expect inflation-linked pay rises without productivity improvements it would result in total disaster.

John Smith wrote on Nov 5th, 2014 at 8:22am:
the push to bring our wages to 3rd world standards is really in high gear now that the monkey is PM ...

business needs to accept that this isn't China and our wages need to match our costs of living ... when was the last time business accepted a cut in profits?


Majority of business are struggling and by pushing for inflation-linked pay rises without productivity improvements to pay for the increase in wages, all your doing is simply bankrupting the people who employ workers,

When i talk about business struggling i'm not talking about woolies, bunnies, Kmart, big business can handle inflation-linked pay rises without productivity improvements, but small/middle business like mine, just cant, and would ether push the rest of us overseas or bankruptcy, most business are struggling as bad as workers today.

Majority of business dont get corporate welfare and tax concessions often isnt that much, the left needs to stop views all business as one big business, because its not.


Not quite. Zero productivity growth means that wages track inflation closely. Wages fall behind inflation when productivity drops below zero.


Wrong - how do i know? i pay wages.


Productivity measurements encompass the entire economy. Individual circumstances make no difference. Except to the individual.
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Very funny Scotty, now beam down my clothes.
 
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Pantheon
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Re: Most Need To Accept Wage Cuts Business Says
Reply #33 - Nov 6th, 2014 at 7:17am
 
crocodile wrote on Nov 6th, 2014 at 6:48am:
Quote:
Its fascinating, 100 years ago, before minimum wage, before over regulations, wages for workers were increasing as fast as business profits, compare that to todays mess?

Seems to me free market capitalism worked better than today mixed economy.


They started from a low base. There is no doubt that GDP per capita and gini coefficient are far superior than what they were a century ago.


Interesting point capitalism state rate better in the Gini index than socialist states.

I have no idea about Australia because i cant find the data, but The US had a higher rating on the Gini index than it has now, and that goes with most of Europe, Wealth seems to have been spread remarkably equality compared to todays standerds.

And yes GDP per capita has dramatically increased since the 1900, however i fail to see how this has help wages to stagnate.
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[b][center]Socialism had been tried on every continent on earth. In light of its results, it's time to question the motives of its advocates.
 
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Dnarever
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Re: Most Need To Accept Wage Cuts Business Says
Reply #34 - Nov 6th, 2014 at 7:51am
 
Pantheon wrote on Nov 6th, 2014 at 4:55am:
I strongly agree that if unions and employees continue to expect inflation-linked pay rises without productivity improvements it would result in total disaster.


Majority of business are struggling and by pushing for inflation-linked pay rises without productivity improvements to pay for the increase in wages, all your doing is simply bankrupting the people who employ workers,


When i talk about business struggling i'm not talking about woolies, bunnies, Kmart, big business can handle inflation-linked pay rises


When talking about CPI based wage increases being negotiated we are primarily talking about Woolworths Bunnings and co.

Most small business pay around bottom rates and are subject to the minimum wage case decision they would seldom have a union come in to negotiate an EBA.

Most Need To Accept Wage Cuts Business Says


Business have been saying this for at least the last 30 years - good times bad times and anywhere in between they cry poor and ask for no wage increases. This is not an honest claim and it never has been.
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Re: Most Need To Accept Wage Cuts Business Says
Reply #35 - Nov 6th, 2014 at 8:02am
 
Pantheon wrote on Nov 6th, 2014 at 7:05am:
crocodile wrote on Nov 6th, 2014 at 6:44am:
Pantheon wrote on Nov 6th, 2014 at 4:55am:
I strongly agree that if unions and employees continue to expect inflation-linked pay rises without productivity improvements it would result in total disaster.

John Smith wrote on Nov 5th, 2014 at 8:22am:
the push to bring our wages to 3rd world standards is really in high gear now that the monkey is PM ...

business needs to accept that this isn't China and our wages need to match our costs of living ... when was the last time business accepted a cut in profits?


Majority of business are struggling and by pushing for inflation-linked pay rises without productivity improvements to pay for the increase in wages, all your doing is simply bankrupting the people who employ workers,

When i talk about business struggling i'm not talking about woolies, bunnies, Kmart, big business can handle inflation-linked pay rises without productivity improvements, but small/middle business like mine, just cant, and would ether push the rest of us overseas or bankruptcy, most business are struggling as bad as workers today.

Majority of business dont get corporate welfare and tax concessions often isnt that much, the left needs to stop views all business as one big business, because its not.


Not quite. Zero productivity growth means that wages track inflation closely. Wages fall behind inflation when productivity drops below zero.


Wrong - how do i know? i pay wages.


Grin Grin Grin

that's like saying 'I know how electricity works because I watch TV' ....
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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.
 
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Dnarever
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Re: Most Need To Accept Wage Cuts Business Says
Reply #36 - Nov 6th, 2014 at 8:03am
 
Pantheon wrote on Nov 6th, 2014 at 4:55am:
I strongly agree that if unions and employees continue to expect inflation-linked pay rises without productivity improvements it would result in total disaster.

.


CPI measurement increases as a response to business increasing prices for the same product. i.e business is collecting more and the community is expected to pay more for the same product.

In order to keep up with real money value pay rates need to reflect this change in order for the employer to be effectively paying his /her employees at the same rate as previously and at best this change lags by 12 months. The employees wages are always 12 months behind in the best case scenario, the employer has the advantage of keeping the employees wage for that period before passing it on.

This is not productivity related.

Increases above CPI would need to be justified in terms of productivity increases.

In many cases substantial productivity increases have already been given with no associated wage justice.
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Grappler Deep State Feller
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Re: Most Need To Accept Wage Cuts Business Says
Reply #37 - Nov 6th, 2014 at 8:40am
 
I think you are discussing the difference between capitalism and corporate piracy....it is obvious that the mantra about flow-down etc is false.
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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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crocodile
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Re: Most Need To Accept Wage Cuts Business Says
Reply #38 - Nov 6th, 2014 at 9:57am
 
Dnarever wrote on Nov 6th, 2014 at 8:03am:
Pantheon wrote on Nov 6th, 2014 at 4:55am:
I strongly agree that if unions and employees continue to expect inflation-linked pay rises without productivity improvements it would result in total disaster.

.


CPI measurement increases as a response to business increasing prices for the same product. i.e business is collecting more and the community is expected to pay more for the same product.

We have a federal reserve bank purposely expanding the money supply to achieve 2 to 3% inflation. Business can increase prices as much as they want but it won't add to inflation unless demand doesn't drop or the good friends at the RBA print more money.


In order to keep up with real money value pay rates need to reflect this change in order for the employer to be effectively paying his /her employees at the same rate as previously and at best this change lags by 12 months. The employees wages are always 12 months behind in the best case scenario, the employer has the advantage of keeping the employees wage for that period before passing it on.

Works both ways. Employers have to wait and see how demand is going before adjusting their supply side.


This is not productivity related.

Increases above CPI would need to be justified in terms of productivity increases.

In many cases substantial productivity increases have already been given with no associated wage justice.

Productivity has been slipping away for over a decade.



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Very funny Scotty, now beam down my clothes.
 
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skippy.
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Re: Most Need To Accept Wage Cuts Business Says
Reply #39 - Nov 6th, 2014 at 10:09am
 
John Smith wrote on Nov 5th, 2014 at 8:22am:
the push to bring our wages to 3rd world standards is really in high gear now that the monkey is PM ...


Yep and the maggots reckon the GFC didn't affect Australia but now they want to use it as an excuse not to increase people's wages. Theses big business maggots are making obscene profits yet baulk at pissant wage increases.
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ImSpartacus2
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Re: Most Need To Accept Wage Cuts Business Says
Reply #40 - Nov 6th, 2014 at 11:41am
 
buzzanddidj wrote on Nov 5th, 2014 at 5:45pm:
Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Nov 5th, 2014 at 11:25am:
I take it she's accepting an equivalent drop in salary and perks?

If not she can be quiet....





REALLY
, these CEOs on
half million dollar, plus salaries
should stick to what they know best

Has this former
Liberal Party politician
known - or even once MET - a retail or hospitality worker, who struggles to pay a mortgage, rent, utility bills, GST - and FOOD for a wife and children,   
- on a pay rate of
$16.87 per hour
or $640.90 per 38 hour week (before tax) ?




Does she care? I dont think so.  This is all about profit for them. What you have to go through to make them their profits is neither here nor there. 
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ImSpartacus2
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Re: Most Need To Accept Wage Cuts Business Says
Reply #41 - Nov 6th, 2014 at 11:50am
 
gone wrote on Nov 5th, 2014 at 6:38pm:
Bam wrote on Nov 5th, 2014 at 6:34pm:
gone wrote on Nov 5th, 2014 at 6:29pm:
For as long as you Aussies are too cowardly to fill the streets in large numbers, on a regular basis, to strike and demonstrate, the corporate tyrants and their puppets in government will continue to squeeze more and more blood out of you.
  Wink
Everything is bargaining. If you don't bargain, you loose.  Wink 

But for many decades the tyrants have used their media and told you that "whinging" is UnAustralian.  Grin So you unlearned to bargain and to stand up for your rights. You learned to put your head down submissively and lick their asses. And you were proud of it, because you thought, this is Austraaaaalian.  Grin They just fooled you, while they got rich of you.
  Wink

So when that nice union representative approaches you and asks if you wish to join the union, don't say no without thinking.


Depends, my friend! If the company I work for pays into the union, I won't join it. As soon as the company starts paying into the union, they UNDERMINE it. It becomes an oxymoron.


The first job I got in school holidays in a factory (going back some time now) the management decided who the union delegate would be. I dont know if the union knew about it.   
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ImSpartacus2
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Re: Most Need To Accept Wage Cuts Business Says
Reply #42 - Nov 6th, 2014 at 12:01pm
 
Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Nov 5th, 2014 at 10:46pm:
gone wrote on Nov 5th, 2014 at 6:29pm:
For as long as you Aussies are too cowardly to fill the streets in large numbers, on a regular basis, to strike and demonstrate, the corporate tyrants and their puppets in government will continue to squeeze more and more blood out of you.
  Wink
Everything is bargaining. If you don't bargain, you loose.  Wink 

But for many decades the tyrants have used their media and told you that "whinging" is UnAustralian.  Grin So you unlearned to bargain and to stand up for your rights. You learned to put your head down submissively and lick their asses. And you were proud of it, because you thought, this is Austraaaaalian.  Grin They just fooled you, while they got rich of you.
  Wink


Haven't you heard of rthe game that used to run around Sydney - it's called 'Spot the Aussie' - in amongst all the immigrant groups who have ZERO idea what this country is about.

Where are these 'Australians' these days?  All subsumed an inundated by crowds of people with no idea other than a hardscrabble existence.....

Perfect fodder to give the vote to and fill with stupid ideas about issues like Unionism and wage structures - things they have no idea of....
Way to go Grappler. Its hard enough trying to get up a unified front to do something about the class war being waged by business since abbort got in without you trying to divide a wedge between us.  You're deluding yourself if you think "Aussies" are any better at defending their workplace rights then anyone else. Ive seen enough cowardly and down right ignorant "aussies in the workplace to know that's a myth. 
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gone
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Re: Most Need To Accept Wage Cuts Business Says
Reply #43 - Nov 6th, 2014 at 12:14pm
 
We don't really need higher wages. We really need to cut a lot of taxes and get rid of a lot of restrictions to small and medium businesses. So the cost of living comes down. That way the working people will be better off.

And the property bubble needs to burst. Excessive property cost is one of the major factors that drive up the cost of the end product, as every business needs property to operate.
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ImSpartacus2
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Re: Most Need To Accept Wage Cuts Business Says
Reply #44 - Nov 6th, 2014 at 12:25pm
 
Pantheon wrote on Nov 6th, 2014 at 4:55am:
I strongly agree that if unions and employees continue to expect inflation-linked pay rises without productivity improvements it would result in total disaster.

John Smith wrote on Nov 5th, 2014 at 8:22am:
the push to bring our wages to 3rd world standards is really in high gear now that the monkey is PM ...

business needs to accept that this isn't China and our wages need to match our costs of living ... when was the last time business accepted a cut in profits?


Majority of business are struggling and by pushing for inflation-linked pay rises without productivity improvements to pay for the increase in wages, all your doing is simply bankrupting the people who employ workers,

When i talk about business struggling i'm not talking about woolies, bunnies, Kmart, big business can handle inflation-linked pay rises without productivity improvements, but small/middle business like mine, just cant, and would ether push the rest of us overseas or bankruptcy, most business are struggling as bad as workers today.

Majority of business dont get corporate welfare and tax concessions often isnt that much, the left needs to stop views all business as one big business, because its not.
When I was talking to Ahovking about 12 months ago about how lowering trade barriers and signing free trade agreements was eroding aust wages and standard of living, he said that was BS. And now he tells us that he strongly believes that we have to cut wages.  Cutting wages to compete with slave labour O'seas is a mugs game. The only possible end is healthy profits for Ahovking and slave wages for everyone else all round.  And dont forget  Ahovking, contributes nothing to this economy. He employs o'seas but sells to the aust market to take advantage of our higher wages knowing that by the time aust wages reach parity he will have diversified or retired leaving our families to struggle with the miserable effects of constantly declining wages.  And all the time this guy who contributes nothing to our economy and takes every opportunity to talk down aust wages is getting tax concessions and welfare from this government, why??? Because he thinks he's entitled.  The age of entitlement.  Time we took a stand against these bludging bast@rds. 
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