Australian Politics Forum - It’s easy to grow Muslim-hatred these days.

Brian Ross

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Re: It’s easy to grow Muslim-hatred these days.
Reply #15 - Nov 16^th, 2014 at 8:33pm

freediver wrote on Nov 16^th, 2014 at 7:54pm:

Repeat after me. This has nothing to do with Islam. The problem is with everyone else, not Muslims.

Always willing to blame the victim, hey, FD?

I wonder, do you think Indigenous Australians are to blame for the attitudes all too often displayed towards them by non-Indigenous Australians? You once defended Indigenous Australians, FD. Where has that attitude gone? Mmmm? Roll Eyes

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Soren

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Re: It’s easy to grow Muslim-hatred these days.
Reply #16 - Nov 16^th, 2014 at 8:47pm

Brian Ross wrote on Nov 16^th, 2014 at 8:33pm:

freediver wrote on Nov 16^th, 2014 at 7:54pm:

Repeat after me. This has nothing to do with Islam. The problem is with everyone else, not Muslims.

Always willing to blame the victim, hey, FD?

How the f Vck is an ideology called SUBMISSION can ever be a VICTIM??

You are mad or stupid or both.

I say both.

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Lionel Edriess

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Re: It’s easy to grow Muslim-hatred these days.
Reply #17 - Nov 16^th, 2014 at 9:12pm

Brian Ross wrote on Nov 16^th, 2014 at 8:25pm:

Lionel Edriess wrote on Nov 16^th, 2014 at 7:53pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Nov 16^th, 2014 at 6:38pm:

Lionel, your belief is based at best on circumstantial evidence.

However, to please you and all the other critics, I'll repeat a point I have made several times here and elsewhere - my belief in god was beaten out of me at school, thanks to the over-zealous efforts of a certain order of teaching brothers.

Oh, boo-hoo Brian.

What makes you unique in that experience?

I never claimed it was unique, merely what occurred to me, Lionel.

However, it is a pre-requisite (usually) to be a member of a religion and to practice that religion, to have a belief in what ever is being worshipped, now isn't it?

Therefore, a lack of belief in god rather makes the point I am not a follower of Islam or is that too logical for you? Roll Eyes

Quote:

I can even understand your defense of the 'majority of Muslims'.

I fail to understand your defense of Islam.

Sounds like a personal problem then, Lionel.

I defend those who I believe are being persecuted. Be they Muslim, Jew, Christian or Hindu or any other form of religion. Be they Indigenes or non-Indigenes, rich or poor (although, it must be admitted, I've rarely seen anybody who's rich who's been persecuted in Australia).

At the moment, Muslims come in for a very largely unfair amount of stick which is based IMO on ignorance, hatred and prejudice, Lionel. I dislike standing by and watching Australians pick on their fellow Australians merely because they are different.

I've gone into bat for many minority groups over the years, as well as you know, so I'm impartial as to whom I defend.

I cannot understand your persecution of Muslims, Lionel. I find it reprehensible from a man who is apparently as well educated as yourself that you will allow your baser attitudes to hold sway. Roll Eyes

You've got me wrong,Brian.

I'm batting for the 'silent majority' of Muslims, not the 'tiny minority' that promote Jihadism against all those who espouse a different view than their own. I don't 'persecute' Muslims at all. I merely point out my opposition to their beliefs - those that encourage their young to head off overseas to fight in a war that this country is reluctantly dragged into.

But you go right ahead and support the minority, as you have already admitted to doing.

No matter how many times I tell you I don't have a problem with Muslims, only Islam, yet you continually fail to differentiate between the two.

I have no problem with such a differentiation. Why should you?

You rarely even mention Islam in these discussions - it's all about Muslims.

Why is that?

Cool

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Toughen up, Australia!

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49096 At my desk.	Re: It’s easy to grow Muslim-hatred these days. Reply #18 - Nov 16^th, 2014 at 9:21pm Karnal wrote on Nov 16^th, 2014 at 8:27pm: Apparently they stand against the Freeedom of "white people". FD? Are you asking for a quote?
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Brian Ross

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Re: It’s easy to grow Muslim-hatred these days.
Reply #19 - Nov 16^th, 2014 at 11:11pm

Soren wrote on Nov 16^th, 2014 at 8:47pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Nov 16^th, 2014 at 8:33pm:

freediver wrote on Nov 16^th, 2014 at 7:54pm:

Repeat after me. This has nothing to do with Islam. The problem is with everyone else, not Muslims.

Always willing to blame the victim, hey, FD?

How the f Vck is an ideology called SUBMISSION can ever be a VICTIM??

Who's talking about an ideology, Soren? I'm talking about people. Muslims. Roll Eyes

Quote:

You are mad or stupid or both.

I say both.

Your Islamophobia is getting worse, Soren. Please seek help.

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Brian Ross

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Re: It’s easy to grow Muslim-hatred these days.
Reply #20 - Nov 16^th, 2014 at 11:33pm

Lionel Edriess wrote on Nov 16^th, 2014 at 9:12pm:

Ah, it amuses you, does it it, Lionel? Roll Eyes

Quote:

You've got me wrong,Brian.

I'm batting for the 'silent majority' of Muslims, not the 'tiny minority' that promote Jihadism against all those who espouse a different view than their own. I don't 'persecute' Muslims at all. I merely point out my opposition to their beliefs - those that encourage their young to head off overseas to fight in a war that this country is reluctantly dragged into.

But you go right ahead and support the minority, as you have already admitted to doing.

I have? Where? Roll Eyes

I have always said I support the majority of mainstream Muslims, Lionel so please don't misrepresent me.

Quote:

No matter how many times I tell you I don't have a problem with Muslims, only Islam, yet you continually fail to differentiate between the two.

As Soren suggests, Islam is made up of Muslims. You attack "Islam" but which Islam do you attack? You, like Soren seem to have erected this strawman view of Islam as being monolithic and all Muslims have the same interpretation of their religion. I know you're too intelligent to do that with say, Christianity yet you do it with Islam, Lionel, why?

Quote:

I have no problem with such a differentiation. Why should you?

I find it artificial, like trying divorce Christianity from Christians. In the end, Islam is Muslims, Lionel. When you attack "Islam" in general, you are effectively attacking Muslims, just if someone was to rail against Christianity, then they would be attacking the believers in that religion.

Quote:

You rarely even mention Islam in these discussions - it's all about Muslims.

Why is that?

Cool

How clever of you to notice, Lionel. I always considered you more intelligent (when you want to be) than the likes of the simplistic Islamophobes of the likes of Moses, Yadda, Soren and FD.

Perhaps the reason why I don't defend Islam is because there are many aspects of Islam I don't agree with but I recognise that I, as an outsider no matter how much I or any other outsider rails against it, I am completely powerless to change it. Change must come from within. Instead of attacking it in general, we need to encourage the interpretations which promote modernisation and change and moderation. As long as people keep attacking Muslims and Islam in general, making no effort to differentiate between the moderate, mainstream interpretations and the extremist, Muslims will feel persecuted and alienated. People who are alienated tend to end up being attracted to extremism. Capeche?

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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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Yadda

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Re: It’s easy to grow Muslim-hatred these days.
Reply #21 - Nov 17^th, 2014 at 6:35am

Brian Ross wrote on Nov 16^th, 2014 at 3:58pm:

Quote:

It’s easy to grow Muslim-hatred these days. The seeds are already there.

All you need is a little fertilizer to allow

the sprouts of slander

to develop robust roots.

[Source]

Sound familar? Our Yadda, Moses, Adamant, Soren, Freediver, Baronvert, et al... Roll Eyes

Brian,

Your assertions themselves are a slander.

Dictionary;

slander = = the action or crime of making a false spoken statement damaging to a person’s reputation.

Brian,

Do you have a mental problem ?

Do you have a problem comprehending the right [the correct] and intended meaning [i.e. the definition] of English words ?

Brian,

The article that you proffer makes AN ACCUSATION, against myself [and others].

What slander has been spoken against 'the moslem' ?

MY EXPLANATION;

BY DEFINITION, ....'the moslem', is a follower of ISLAM.

OR, do you intend to contest that very obvious definition [of what 'the moslem' is] ?

And ISLAM.

ISLAM defines itself, within its own foundation texts.

And, ISLAM is 'defined', among [by] its own leaders [and by the behaviour of its own adherents].

So give over [desist] Brian, with your SHAMELESS LIES.

BECAUSE;

There is no 'Muslim-hatred',
....based upon any 'slander',
....of 'the moslem' or upon any 'slander' of what ISLAM is.

EVIDENCES, WHICH SPEAK FOR THEMSELVES;

THE 'SLANDER' OF ISLAM [and of 'the moslem'] - WHICH 'EMANATES' FROM THE INERRANT KORAN.....

"....Lo! Allah is an enemy to those who reject Faith."
Koran 2.98

"....those who reject Allah have no protector."
Koran 47.008
v. 8-11

"Fighting [against unbelievers] is prescribed for you, and [if] ye dislike it.....Allah knoweth, and ye know not."
Koran 2.216

"O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty (unto Him)."
Koran 9.123

"Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain:...."
Koran 9.111

FROM THE LIPS OF ISLAMIC LEADERS....

Quote:

Creed of the sword
Mark Durie
September 23, 2006
.....the Grand Mufti of Saudi Arabia, Sheikh Abdel Aziz al-Sheikh, issued a statement on the official Saudi news service, defending Muslims' divine right to resort to violence: "The spread of Islam has gone through several phases, secret and then public, in Mecca and Medina. God then authorised the faithful to defend themselves and to fight against those fighting them, which amounts to a right legitimised by God. This ... is quite reasonable, and God will not hate it."
Saudi Arabia's most senior cleric also explained that war was never Islam's ancient founder, the prophet Mohammed's, first choice: "He gave three options: either accept Islam, or surrender and pay tax, and they will be allowed to remain in their land, observing their religion under the protection of Muslims." Thus, according to the Grand Mufti, the third option of violence against non-Muslims was only a last resort, if they refused to convert or surrender peacefully to the armies of Islam.
.......At the beginning, in Mohammed's Meccan period, when he was weaker and his followers few, passages of the Koran encouraged peaceful relations and avoidance of conflict: "Invite (all) to the way of your Lord with wisdom and beautiful preaching; and argue with them in ways that are best and most gracious." (16:125)
Later, after persecution and emigration to Medina in the first year of the Islamic calendar, authority was given to engage in warfare for defensive purposes only: "Fight in the path of God those who fight you, but do not transgress limits, for God does not love transgressors." (2:190)
As the Muslim community grew stronger and conflict with its neighbours did not abate, further revelations expanded the licence for waging war, until in Sura 9, regarded as one of the last chapters to be revealed, it is concluded that war against non-Muslims could be waged more or less at any time and in any place to extend the dominance of Islam.

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,20460114-601,00.html

FROM THE LIPS OF ISLAMIC LEADERS - WITHIN AUSTRALIA....

MOSLEMS, 'EXCITING' A MURDEROUS HATRED OF THOSE WHO DO NOT BELIEVE, AS MOSLEMS BELIEVE

THAT, IS WHAT IS BEING TAUGHT TO MOSLEM CHILDREN - IN AUSTRALIA - TODAY - AS BEING A 'LAWFUL' CONDITION FOR A 'SOCIETY'.

AND THAT POSITION IS BEING TAUGHT TO MOSLEM CHILDREN - IN AUSTRALIA -, BY MAINSTREAM ISLAM, AND BY THE MAINSTREAM MOSLEM COMMUNITY. [....blatant and bare faced denials withstanding!]

e.g.

Muslims brainwash children in Australia

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krk5piUzp1E

+++

ISLAM, is a piece of moral sewage.

And every self declared moslem is swimming, in that moral sewage.

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Yadda

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Re: It’s easy to grow Muslim-hatred these days.
Reply #22 - Nov 17^th, 2014 at 9:10am

Brian Ross wrote on Nov 16^th, 2014 at 3:58pm:

Quote:

It’s easy to grow Muslim-hatred these days. The seeds are already there. All you need is a little fertilizer to allow the sprouts of slander to develop robust roots.
......
......

Ezra Levant creates latest made-up......
......

Consider this story featured on the website U.S. Patriot and widely circulated on social media: “MUSLIM NURSES REFUSE TO WASH HANDS” screams the headline. The article tells us Muslim medical workers in the U.K. have received dispensation not to wash their hands out of deference to religious modesty. It concludes with the inevitable invitation to express online indignation: “What do you think? Should Sharia Law overrule safety?”

The story has been kicking around the internet for seven years and has even been repeated in major newspapers. It rings two important gongs: the notion that Muslims are always demanding special privileges and that sniveling liberals are ever ready to grant them. But it’s sheer nonsense: No special hand-washing waiver has been granted to anyone.

......
......

That Levant so effortlessly arrived at his anti-Muslim convictions is bad enough. That he propagated the false tale and apparently refuses to fully back down is a sorry thing. But the greater problem is that with each new shameless falsehood, more manure is heaped onto the seedbeds of future slander.

National Post

[Source]

Sound familar? Our Yadda, Moses, Adamant, Soren, Freediver, Baronvert, et al... Roll Eyes

Brian,

Your source appears to have got some of his facts wrong.

So why don't you and he, stop slandering those persons who are legitimately criticising moslem prejudices towards Western practices ?

Hmmmmm ?

Any chance of that ???

Quote:

UK: Muslims refusing to wash hands in hospitals

Robert Spencer Dec 30, 2006 at 6:24pm Uncategorized

Because the cleansing solution contains alcohol. Clash of Civilizations Update: “Muslims ‘refuse anti-MRSA gel,'” from The Sun Online, with thanks to Mary Beth:

SOME Muslims are undermining the battle to rid Britain’s hospitals of killer infections by refusing to wash their hands when visiting sick relatives.

Dispensers containing anti-bacterial gel have been placed outside wards at hospitals all over Britain in a bid to get rid of superbugs like MRSA and PVL.

It prevents people bringing in more infections. But some Muslims refuse to use the hand cleansers on religious grounds because they contain alcohol.

Health watchdogs are so concerned they intend to meet with NHS bosses in the New Year to try and hammer out a solution.

NHS care assistant Theresa Poupa, 46, became aware of the situation while visiting a sick cousin at the London Chest Hospital in Bethnal Green.

She said: “I could not believe it – the signs are large enough and clear enough but they just took no notice and walked straight onto the ward.

“I was there almost every day for three weeks and I saw it repeated dozens and dozens of times. When I raised the matter with the nursing staff they just shrugged and said that Muslims were refusing to use the gel because it contained alcohol.

“They said they couldn’t force visitors to use the gel and I understand that “” but I was astonished that anyone who didn’t wash their hands was allowed onto a ward.

“I know the dangers that bugs like MRSA can cause. They kill hundreds of patients a year.”

google

Quote:

U.K.: Hospital, female Muslim medics in standoff over hygiene rules

Marisol Seibold Feb 26, 2008 at 11:07am Uncategorized

“Perhaps these women should not be choosing medicine as a career if they feel unable to abide by the guidelines that everyone else has to follow.”

Indeed. Especially when lives and health are at risk. An update on this story. “Muslim medics in Alder Hey stand-off,” by Caroline Innes for the Liverpool Echo (thanks to WriterMom):

HEALTH officials are having crisis talks with Muslim medical staff who have objected to hospital hygiene rules because of religious beliefs.

Women students at Liverpool’s Alder Hey children’s hospital have raised objections to removing their arm coverings in theatre and to rolling up their sleeves when washing their hands because it is regarded as immodest.

Minutes of a clinical academics” meeting at Liverpool University revealed that female Muslim students at Alder Hey children’s hospital had objected to rolling up their sleeves to wear gowns.

Similar concerns have been raised at Leicester University, and Sheffield University also reported a case of a Muslim medic who refused to “scrub” as this left her forearms exposed.

Some students have said that they would prefer to quit the course rather than expose their arms, but hygiene experts said no exceptions should be made on religious grounds.

A Royal Liverpool hospital spokesman said they had experienced issues of Muslim staff not sanitising their forearms with alcohol gel although this had now been addressed.

google

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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polite_gandalf

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Re: It’s easy to grow Muslim-hatred these days.
Reply #23 - Nov 17^th, 2014 at 10:20am

Good to see the same old impeccable circular logic on display again:

"inventing stories to smear islam is understandable (and implicity justified) because islam is so darned evil anyway"

lies about British nurses, cannibals in Indonesia, footage from an Iranian feature film.... as Soren himself says "Islam's got nuffin to do with nuffin"

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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Yadda

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Re: It’s easy to grow Muslim-hatred these days.
Reply #24 - Nov 17^th, 2014 at 10:34am

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 17^th, 2014 at 10:20am:

Good to see the same old impeccable circular logic on display again:

"inventing stories to smear islam is understandable (and implicity justified) because islam is so darned evil anyway"

lies about British nurses,

cannibals in Indonesia, footage from an Iranian feature film.... as Soren himself says "Islam's got nuffin to do with nuffin"

gandalf,

I have to presume, do i, that this news report, is a fiction ?

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/muslim-medics-alder-hey-stand...

This isn't a fiction though.....

MOSLEMS, 'EXCITING' A MURDEROUS HATRED OF THOSE WHO DO NOT BELIEVE, AS MOSLEMS BELIEVE

THAT, IS WHAT IS BEING TAUGHT TO MOSLEM CHILDREN - IN AUSTRALIA - TODAY - AS BEING A 'LAWFUL' CONDITION FOR A 'SOCIETY'.

AND THAT POSITION IS BEING TAUGHT TO MOSLEM CHILDREN - IN AUSTRALIA -, BY MAINSTREAM ISLAM, AND BY THE MAINSTREAM MOSLEM COMMUNITY. [....blatant and bare faced denials withstanding!]

e.g.

Muslims brainwash children in Australia

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krk5piUzp1E

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Lord Herbert

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Re: It’s easy to grow Muslim-hatred these days.
Reply #25 - Nov 17^th, 2014 at 10:34am

freediver wrote on Nov 16^th, 2014 at 4:11pm:

I suspect it is easy to grow because a hundred or so Australian Muslims are raping and pillaging their way across the middle east.

Meanwhile, the good Muslims are on here explaining why they cannot tolerate white people having freedom of speech, in case they mock Muhammed.

That's put Brian back into his silk-lined casket until the moon rises again.

Every time I check with the UK press there's a Headline about some sort of Muslim Mischief. Rape gangs. Crime gangs. Recruiting with ISIS. Threats of violence, etc etc.

Every night when I switch on to watch the evening news ... there again, and utterly predictable, is a story of a criminal or terrorist nature involving our own home-grown Muslims.

You just can't get away from it nowadays.

70% of Brits want immigration drastically slowed or stopped all together.

And then we have a G20 meeting of world leaders and not a word is uttered about the negative impact Muslim immigration is having on western societies.

Not a word.

The longer our politicians procrastinate in admitting to the problem - and doing something concrete about it, the greater the chance of a far-rightwing party eventually rising up out of the political swamp to offer their services to a disgruntled public.

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Karnal

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Re: It’s easy to grow Muslim-hatred these days.
Reply #26 - Nov 17^th, 2014 at 10:38am

freediver wrote on Nov 16^th, 2014 at 9:21pm:

Karnal wrote on Nov 16^th, 2014 at 8:27pm:

Apparently they stand against the Freeedom of "white people".

FD?

Are you asking for a quote?

No, but I’m curious about your Muslim/"white people" dichotomy. You’ve always discussed the political/religious aspect of Islam, never any perceived racial opposition.

Was this a Freudian slip? Does it betray an underlying racial element to your criticism of Islam?

I’m curious.

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Karnal

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Re: It’s easy to grow Muslim-hatred these days.
Reply #27 - Nov 17^th, 2014 at 10:40am

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 17^th, 2014 at 10:20am:

Good to see the same old impeccable circular logic on display again:

"inventing stories to smear islam is understandable (and implicity justified) because islam is so darned evil anyway"

lies about British nurses, cannibals in Indonesia, footage from an Iranian feature film.... as Soren himself says "Islam's got nuffin to do with nuffin"

According to FD, Islam now stands in opposition to the Freeeedom of white people.

Shurley shome mishtake, eh?

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polite_gandalf

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Re: It’s easy to grow Muslim-hatred these days.
Reply #28 - Nov 17^th, 2014 at 10:46am

freediver wrote on Nov 16^th, 2014 at 4:11pm:

Meanwhile, the good Muslims are on here explaining why they cannot tolerate white people having freedom of speech
, in case they mock Muhammed.

Yes that is an interesting thing to bring up.

FD, why do you mention white people? Can you quote any "good Muslims... on here" railing against white people?

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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polite_gandalf

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Re: It’s easy to grow Muslim-hatred these days.
Reply #29 - Nov 17^th, 2014 at 10:47am

Karnal wrote on Nov 17^th, 2014 at 10:40am:

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 17^th, 2014 at 10:20am:

Good to see the same old impeccable circular logic on display again:

"inventing stories to smear islam is understandable (and implicity justified) because islam is so darned evil anyway"

lies about British nurses, cannibals in Indonesia, footage from an Iranian feature film.... as Soren himself says "Islam's got nuffin to do with nuffin"

According to FD, Islam now stands in opposition to the Freeeedom of white people.

Shurley shome mishtake, eh?

FD also makes up other racially emotive terms like "scheming jews" and pretends they come from "the good Muslims" here

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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