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Record Numbers Turning To Socialism (Read 3647 times)
ImSpartacus2
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Re: Record Numbers Turning To Socialism
Reply #30 - Nov 17th, 2014 at 1:20pm
 
bogarde73 wrote on Nov 17th, 2014 at 9:26am:
I suppose all those millions who just voted the Republicans one of their best ever Congressional victories are part of your record numbers turning to socialism.
Or don't the people in the US count in your fantasy?
I can only go on what I have heard about those results but many are saying that its due to low turnout from people who no longer have any confidence that you can fix things through the system (and I would agree with them) and if that is true (and I don't know one way or another) that result would not be inconsistent with what the professor is saying.  But don't you bother your simple little head about any of this boggie. Just you make sure to stop those boats. Oh year don't worry about the billions being ripped out of the heart of this country just STOP THOSE BOATS!!!!
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Dnarever
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Re: Record Numbers Turning To Socialism
Reply #31 - Nov 17th, 2014 at 1:22pm
 
The USA is that extreme in its capitalist position that they consider a position solidly right of centre to be socialist.
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ImSpartacus2
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Re: Record Numbers Turning To Socialism
Reply #32 - Nov 17th, 2014 at 1:26pm
 
....
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« Last Edit: Nov 17th, 2014 at 1:31pm by ImSpartacus2 »  
 
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ImSpartacus2
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Re: Record Numbers Turning To Socialism
Reply #33 - Nov 17th, 2014 at 1:27pm
 
Sprintcyclist wrote on Nov 17th, 2014 at 12:37pm:
MumboJumbo wrote on Nov 17th, 2014 at 11:52am:
ian wrote on Nov 17th, 2014 at 11:47am:
ImSpartacus2 wrote on Nov 17th, 2014 at 8:52am:
ian wrote on Nov 17th, 2014 at 8:46am:
all  those socialist countries out there going so well with  their top life expectancies and standard of living and laughing at us capitalists.
Typically Ian, you're confused about what socialism is because you never really looked into it in any intelligent way.  What wrong? Is your mind so impressionable that you cant trust to expose it to different thoughts. Its quite pathetic really.    
no problem, educate me, show me 1 prosperous socialist country.


Australia
England
Germany
Any of the Nordic countries.
Even the US is, to an extent (a small extent)


I would have called all of those democratic capitalist secular countries.

Cr@p. How often have we seen you claim those countries are socialists.You change when the argument suites you?
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ImSpartacus2
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Re: Record Numbers Turning To Socialism
Reply #34 - Nov 17th, 2014 at 1:31pm
 
....
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« Last Edit: Nov 17th, 2014 at 2:19pm by ImSpartacus2 »  
 
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ImSpartacus2
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Re: Record Numbers Turning To Socialism
Reply #35 - Nov 17th, 2014 at 1:31pm
 
Panther wrote on Nov 17th, 2014 at 12:41pm:
BatteriesNotIncluded wrote on Nov 17th, 2014 at 11:41am:
Panther wrote on Nov 17th, 2014 at 9:41am:
ImSpartacus2 wrote on Nov 17th, 2014 at 8:38am:
.....people are embracing the socialist message in record numbers, particularly the younger generation......


Socialism has never succeeded long term, & is doomed to failure because it depends solely on taking money from the workers & wealth creators, & redistributes it to a permanent subculture that do not work for it, & ultimately never will.

This is usually done by political parties, not simply a good-will gesture for the betterment of mankind, no, it's all done for the political gain of those that create the programs that redistribute the wealth --- the political parties.

Eventually, the taxation increases astronomically, & businesses ultimately flee off-shore (it's happening now --here--in Australia), because less & less workers can be found to produce the wealth necessary to feed the starving engines of socialism.

“The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people’s money.”

Though, in the short term it will thrive because the wealth needed is plentiful, & there never is a shortage of hands outstretched for something "FREE".




The problem with capitalism is that eventually some smart guy realises a system called "money" is required! 

Yeh, i wish I was like dream rider and played the game of capitalism in my head with no money 


Wish all you want, 'till you're red & blue in the face, you'll never attain what I have, especially if Socialism is your vehicle of choice. http://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/BigToothSmile.gif
Sorry DRx but its not only horse who has noticed that you do a lot of living in your head. Even your avitar bespeaks of an extremely idiolized over exaggerated self image.   
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ImSpartacus2
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Re: Record Numbers Turning To Socialism
Reply #36 - Nov 17th, 2014 at 2:17pm
 
....
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« Last Edit: Nov 17th, 2014 at 3:54pm by ImSpartacus2 »  
 
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ImSpartacus2
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Re: Record Numbers Turning To Socialism
Reply #37 - Nov 17th, 2014 at 2:18pm
 
ian wrote on Nov 17th, 2014 at 12:41pm:
still waiting, 1 prosperous socialist country. Just 1.
Did it occur to you to actually do some reading on the subject.  It's clear that you have this notion of socialism that doesn't come from any kind of study or even any time spent on reflection but more about what you've heard others say and assumed to be true without any critical thinking.  Here, lets test it.  Did you watch the interview???? It was only a 12 minute interview but I'm guessing that if you'd watched it, it would have amounted to about as much time as you have spent critically examining that subject over your whole life time up until this point in time.  And that's what makes it so hard trying to have an intelligent discussion with you on the subject.  OK lets take your question "Name 1 prosperous socialist country?" My answer, China.  In 40/50 years that country went from a peasant rural subsistence economy to the worlds most successful industrialized nation on earth, with an economy tipped to soon edge out the US for first place.  And how was it built. A planned government run economy. Indeed, we humans know that things that are planned always (and I mean always) work better and more efficiently then things that are unplanned and random (am I going too fast for you sparky).  China's political system is totalitarian/oligarchic; run by a few and inevitably for the benefit for the few. That's why its political system of government is not acceptable to me. But its economic system, the socialist system that grew that economy from nothing was socialist. The Russians did the same from 1917 to the 1970s, the japanese did the same from 1850s to the 1900s and to a lesser extent india with its mixed economy and Australia and the UK with government run and owned instrumentalists (but since privatised) that made their respective countries prosperous and worked far better for the community then they ever have since privatisation.  I don't want socialism without a direct democracy but all the evidence strongly points in the direction that the combo of the 2 is far better at delivering prosperity to all the creators of wealth in the community and not just the few benefited by the corporate totalitarianism system thats running the world today.
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Grappler Deep State Feller
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Re: Record Numbers Turning To Socialism
Reply #38 - Nov 17th, 2014 at 2:30pm
 
Panther wrote on Nov 17th, 2014 at 9:41am:
ImSpartacus2 wrote on Nov 17th, 2014 at 8:38am:
.....people are embracing the socialist message in record numbers, particularly the younger generation......


Socialism has never succeeded long term, & is doomed to failure because it depends solely on taking money from the workers & wealth creators, & redistributes it to a permanent subculture that do not work for it, & ultimately never will.

This is usually done by political parties, not simply a good-will gesture for the betterment of mankind, no, it's all done for the political gain of those that create the programs that redistribute the wealth --- the political parties.

Eventually, the taxation increases astronomically, & businesses ultimately flee off-shore (it's happening now --here--in Australia), because less & less workers can be found to produce the wealth necessary to feed the starving engines of socialism.

“The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people’s money.”

Though, in the short term it will thrive because the wealth needed is plentiful, & there never is a shortage of hands outstretched for something "FREE".





Please quote  the progenitor of your quote so we can see clearly how it fits into the socio-political spectrum.

Sounds like Thatcher to me - classically short-sighted and totally dumb in reality - what difference is there in taking from workers a tax that feeds their Mum and Pop in their retirement and that worker paying for the upkeep of Mum and Pop - other than that the load is spread in taxation in ALL countries across the entire spectrum of society - and a form of equality is attained (not achieved) by those with the most giving the most into that pool?
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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams
 
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Grappler Deep State Feller
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Re: Record Numbers Turning To Socialism
Reply #39 - Nov 17th, 2014 at 4:39pm
 
Let's put it in simple english:-

Joe Rich has a pair of rich parents who will retire and live a long and lovely life tripping down the Rhine or visiting Alaska for a multitude of dollars.

Now - if Joe Rich is to sustain his parents in the manner to which they have always been accustomed - he needs to put a hefty proportion of his income towards looking after dear old Mum and Dad - without whom he would be nobody.

How does that equate to tax?  Probably pretty damned close considering the Joe rich doesn't pay the full burden but gets one hell of a lot of free rides.

So would he rather his parents rely on him for their cash or accept a pension and maybe not attend Alaska to watch themating of the Intrepidous Wallegul which only occurs once every fifteen years and is only seen by those with heaps?  T

They watch it on National Geo channel instead....

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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Re: Record Numbers Turning To Socialism
Reply #40 - Nov 17th, 2014 at 4:57pm
 
Facts That No Honorable Socialist Can Intellectually Refute




Quote:
Socialism is the Big Lie of the twentieth century. While it promised prosperity, equality, and security, it delivered poverty, misery, and tyranny. Equality was achieved only in the sense that everyone was equal in his or her misery.

In the same way that a Ponzi scheme or chain letter initially succeeds but eventually collapses, socialism may show early signs of success. But any accomplishments quickly fade as the fundamental deficiencies of central planning emerge. It is the initial illusion of success that gives government intervention its pernicious, seductive appeal. In the long run, socialism has always proven to be a formula for tyranny and misery.

A pyramid scheme is ultimately unsustainable because it is based on faulty principles. Likewise, collectivism is unsustainable in the long run because it is a flawed theory. Socialism does not work because it is not consistent with fundamental principles of human behavior. The failure of socialism in countries around the world can be traced to one critical defect:
it is a system that ignores incentives.


In a capitalist economy, incentives are of the utmost importance. Market prices, the profit-and-loss system of accounting, and private property rights provide an efficient, interrelated system of incentives to guide and direct economic behavior. Capitalism is based on the theory that incentives matter!

Under socialism, incentives either play a minimal role or are ignored totally. A centrally planned economy without market prices or profits, where property is owned by the state, is a system without an effective incentive mechanism to direct economic activity. By failing to emphasize incentives, socialism is a theory inconsistent with human nature and is therefore doomed to fail. Socialism is based on the theory that incentives don’t matter!..........
Continued


A Pure Socialistic System always fails..... as will a Pure Capitalistic System, or a Pure Communistic System .......

No 'PURE' System can ever succeed.

IMHO only a 'Hybrid' System has a chance to succeed  ------  a market based system primarily instituted on a 'Modestly Regulated' Capitalism, but lightly tempered with the proper amount of 'Sustainable' Socialism.
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« Last Edit: Nov 17th, 2014 at 5:42pm by Panther »  

"When the People fear government there is Tyranny;
When government fears the People there is Freedom & Liberty!"

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Re: Record Numbers Turning To Socialism
Reply #41 - Nov 17th, 2014 at 5:43pm
 
Panther wrote on Nov 17th, 2014 at 4:57pm:
A Pure Socialistic System always fails..... as will a Pure Capitalistic System, or a Pure Communistic System .......

No 'PURE' System can ever succeed.

IMHO only a 'Hybrid' System has a chance to succeed  ------  a system primarily based on a 'Modestly Regulated' Capitalism, but lightly tempered with the proper amount of 'Sustainable' Socialism.


Now you've arrived at the nub of the matter, Grasshopper - your comment equally applies to Honourable Capitalists, Honourable Communists.. and every other Honourable -ist.....

THERE lies the truth of your comment - and you adherence to your thesis of a discriminatory reading causes your thesis to fail.

F.
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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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Re: Record Numbers Turning To Socialism
Reply #42 - Nov 17th, 2014 at 7:24pm
 
This whole silly thread hinges on the definition of 'socialism'.  probably everyone except Andrei would promote some socialist policies in our otherwise strongly capitalist countries.  Australia for instance, is  undeniably a market capitalist economy but with a social conscience.  That does not make us a socialist country by any stretch of the argument.

Greece was a socialist economy.  And the reference to Norway cannot simply ignore the massive oil income.  Without it, Norway would be an economic desert.
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Re: Record Numbers Turning To Socialism
Reply #43 - Nov 17th, 2014 at 7:35pm
 
longweekend58 wrote on Nov 17th, 2014 at 7:24pm:
This whole silly thread hinges on the definition of 'socialism'.  probably everyone except Andrei would promote some socialist policies in our otherwise strongly capitalist countries.  Australia for instance, is  undeniably a market capitalist economy but with a social conscience.  That does not make us a socialist country by any stretch of the argument.

Greece was a socialist economy.  And the reference to Norway cannot simply ignore the massive oil income.  Without it, Norway would be an economic desert. 


From the mouths of (intellectual) babes. Well said longy.

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Nov 17th, 2014 at 5:43pm:
Now you've arrived at the nub of the matter, Grasshopper - your comment equally applies to Honourable Capitalists, Honourable Communists.. and every other Honourable -ist.....

THERE lies the truth of your comment - and you adherence to your thesis of a discriminatory reading causes your thesis to fail.


Well said, Master Grappler.
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See Profile For Update wrote on Jan 3rd, 2015 at 2:58pm:
Why the bugger did I get stuck on a planet chalked full of imbeciles?
 
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Re: Record Numbers Turning To Socialism
Reply #44 - Nov 17th, 2014 at 8:20pm
 
capitalism works great when socialism acts prevents it from failing

Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy
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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.
 
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