Australian Politics Forum - Anti-Halal extremists

Stratos Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 4725	Re: Anti-Halal extremists Reply #180 - Dec 2^nd, 2014 at 9:00am freediver wrote on Dec 2^nd, 2014 at 8:45am: It is not a false argument, it is simply how our economy works Maybe if it is how our economy works you could find a solitary example of what you claim?
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polite_gandalf

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Re: Anti-Halal extremists
Reply #181 - Dec 2^nd, 2014 at 9:53am

freediver wrote on Dec 2^nd, 2014 at 8:45am:

Like I just finished explaining Gandalf, that is how I interpreted your stupid rhetorical question. It is not a false argument, it is simply how our economy works

How our economy works:

polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 1^st, 2014 at 1:50pm:

The question is whether the increase in production costs (such as purchasing halal certification) are a) always automatically passed on to consumers in the form of higher prices as you insist or b) could be absorbed by the producers in anticipation for higher profits as a result of accessing a previously unavailable market that certification enables. This is in fact that an eminently sensible and logical position that you must reject if you are going to remain consistent with your ill-thought out original position - even while you directly contradict yourself by conceding that scenario b is a perfectly reasonable possibility.

And here is the statement that FD is falling over himself to try and abandon:

freediver wrote on Nov 25^th, 2014 at 9:38pm:

Profit margins will only be decreased if a benefit in total profits as a result is anticipated. Those total profits will inevitably take into account all costs incurred. Costs also will only be incurred if there is a net benefit.

FD, in view of the above statement, in regards to the domestic chicken market, would you care to revise your previous claim that:

freediver wrote on Nov 23^rd, 2014 at 3:18pm:

Even if you buy the non-halal product, the price will be influenced (increased) by this extortion.

?

Given that you don't have a damn clue how much Baida pays for certification, and in view of your (sensible) statement about the possibility that profit margins could be decreased "if a benefit in total profits as a result is anticipated", and that Baida entering a previously unavailable market may well represent such an anticipated benefit - will you now concede that your insistence that halal certification costs will always, absolutely, never-ever, have the effect of increasing the price of chicken for the consumer - is nothing but baseless and prejudiced crap?

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49071 At my desk.	Re: Anti-Halal extremists Reply #182 - Dec 2^nd, 2014 at 1:17pm Gandalf, you and the apologists spent a fair chunk of this thread arguing that there is no way a company would produce two separate product lines - one halal and one non-halal - because it would waste money and push up prices. And if you know what it costs, why don't you say?
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polite_gandalf

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Re: Anti-Halal extremists
Reply #183 - Dec 2^nd, 2014 at 1:54pm

freediver wrote on Dec 2^nd, 2014 at 1:17pm:

And if you know what it costs, why don't you say?

I don't, and thats not the point. The point is you stumbling over yourself trying to convince us that on the one hand halal certification will always, absolutely, never-ever drive the price of meat up - while on the other hand acknowledging that there are some situations in which producers may be prepared to absorb some costs and reduce their profit margins - if there is an expectation of even higher profits as a result.

Of course I understand that the original claim came from your wrong assumption that Baida purchases its certificates from the same "extortionist" monopolies that operated the frozen beef trade to Indonesia. I'd just like to hear you at least acknowledge this mistake - and agree that your original rant about trade barriers and regional monopolies squeezing the industry is completely irrelevant to the domestic chicken market (whose certification is sourced locally).

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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freediver

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Re: Anti-Halal extremists
Reply #184 - Dec 2^nd, 2014 at 6:55pm

Quote:

I don't, and thats not the point.

You made quite a big deal about me not knowing.

Quote:

Of course I understand that the original claim came from your wrong assumption that Baida purchases its certificates from the same "extortionist" monopolies that operated the frozen beef trade to Indonesia.

Wrong. All costs, even the small ones, are passed on.

Quote:

and agree that your original rant about trade barriers and regional monopolies squeezing the industry is completely irrelevant to the domestic chicken market (whose certification is sourced locally)

Well that would depend on the price paid, wouldn't it?

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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polite_gandalf

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Re: Anti-Halal extremists
Reply #185 - Dec 2^nd, 2014 at 7:31pm

freediver wrote on Dec 2^nd, 2014 at 6:55pm:

You made quite a big deal about me not knowing.

Yes that tends to happen when its you whose making the baseless BS claims, not me.

freediver wrote on Dec 2^nd, 2014 at 6:55pm:

Wrong. All costs, even the small ones, are passed on.

Nice try, but this is the point of contention:

freediver wrote on Nov 23^rd, 2014 at 3:18pm:

Most of these extortionist fees are applied at the abattoir level, which allows them to squeeze the entire industry. There are a small number of abattoirs, compared to say the number of farmers or the number of retail outlets. This affects prices across the entire industry. Even if you buy the non-halal product, the price will be influenced (increased) by this extortion.

We can settle this quite easily - just acknowledge that there are potential situations in which halal certification may not "influence (increase)" the price of meat - such as when this cost enables the producer to enter a previously unavailable market, and thereby give the producer confidence of a subsequent increase in profits as a result - just like the industry itself claims. You know this is a perfectly reasonable proposition - because you admitted it yourself. You just can't bring yourself to acknowledge halal certification might not be the rip-off to customers you've been so determined to portray it as.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49071 At my desk.	Re: Anti-Halal extremists Reply #186 - Dec 2^nd, 2014 at 9:03pm It will always increase the cost Gandalf, as already explained countless times. Do you have anything new to add, or are we just repeating ourselves?
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Karnal Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 95886 Gender:	Re: Anti-Halal extremists Reply #187 - Dec 2^nd, 2014 at 9:49pm freediver wrote on Dec 2^nd, 2014 at 9:03pm: It will always increase the cost Gandalf, as already explained countless times. Do you have anything new to add, or are we just repeating ourselves? Are we? Sorry, I forgot the question. What was it again?
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polite_gandalf

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Re: Anti-Halal extremists
Reply #188 - Dec 3^rd, 2014 at 8:31am

freediver wrote on Dec 2^nd, 2014 at 9:03pm:

It will always increase the cost Gandalf, as already explained countless times. Do you have anything new to add, or are we just repeating ourselves?

Yes just one thing - its a rubbish circular argument that completely ignores what you yourself acknowledged about the possibility to absorb costs and reduce profit margins (and thereby potentially not affecting the end price).

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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|dev|null

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Re: Anti-Halal extremists
Reply #189 - Dec 3^rd, 2014 at 3:24pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 3^rd, 2014 at 8:31am:

freediver wrote on Dec 2^nd, 2014 at 9:03pm:

It will always increase the cost Gandalf, as already explained countless times. Do you have anything new to add, or are we just repeating ourselves?

Yes just one thing - its a rubbish circular argument that completely ignores what you yourself acknowledged about the possibility to absorb costs and reduce profit margins (and thereby potentially not affecting the end price).

Aren't all FD's arguments ultimately circular? Grin

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"Pens and books are the weapons that defeat terrorism." - Malala Yousefzai, 2013.

"we will never ever solve violence while we grasp for overly simplistic solutions."
Freediver, 2007.

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polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20027 Canberra Gender:	Re: Anti-Halal extremists Reply #190 - Dec 3^rd, 2014 at 3:45pm Quite right HB: Halal Certification pushes up the price of chicken because.... Halal Certification pushes up the price of chicken Islam represents a terrorist threat because.... Islam represents a terrorist threat Islam sux because.... Islam sux
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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49071 At my desk.	Re: Anti-Halal extremists Reply #191 - Dec 3^rd, 2014 at 7:52pm Are you lying or have you simply not understood a single thing I have posted here?
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Brian Ross

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Re: Anti-Halal extremists
Reply #192 - Dec 3^rd, 2014 at 9:50pm

freediver wrote on Dec 3^rd, 2014 at 7:52pm:

Are you lying or have you simply not understood a single thing I have posted here?

FD, your problem is that your credibility is shot. No one is listening to or believing a word you claim on this (and most other) matter[s]. Your bias is self-evident and your bigotry obvious. You fail to present any evidence and make the most astounding lies up about people. Roll Eyes

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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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Karnal Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 95886 Gender:	Re: Anti-Halal extremists Reply #193 - Dec 3^rd, 2014 at 10:02pm freediver wrote on Dec 3^rd, 2014 at 7:52pm: Are you lying or have you simply not understood a single thing I have posted here? Mendacious or stupid? Stupid or mendacious? Questions questions.
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polite_gandalf

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Re: Anti-Halal extremists
Reply #194 - Dec 3^rd, 2014 at 11:01pm

Brian Ross wrote on Dec 3^rd, 2014 at 9:50pm:

freediver wrote on Dec 3^rd, 2014 at 7:52pm:

Are you lying or have you simply not understood a single thing I have posted here?

FD, your problem is that your credibility is shot. No one is listening to or believing a word you claim on this (and most other) matter[s]. Your bias is self-evident and your bigotry obvious. You fail to present any evidence and make the most astounding lies up about people. Roll Eyes

You don't understand Brian - FD thinks for himself.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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