Australian Politics Forum - Anti-Halal extremists

freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49075 At my desk.	Re: Anti-Halal extremists Reply #60 - Nov 23^rd, 2014 at 2:35pm Not sure why this seems so complicated for you Gandalf.
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Baronvonrort

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Re: Anti-Halal extremists
Reply #61 - Nov 23^rd, 2014 at 2:40pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 23^rd, 2014 at 1:03pm:

Steggles chicken is now 100% halal in Australia.

But just to take one example, on their website steggles state that they supply over 200 KFC restaurants in Australia. Yet there are only 4 KFC restaurants that are certified as halal Australia wide.

To be certified as a halal KFC they cannot sell a bacon and cheese zinger, this KFC is one of the halal ones yet they have a sign on the fridge saying not halal which might apply to the contents of the fridge.

Muslims are only 2% of our population yet they have managed to have bacon removed from the menus at 4 KFC.

This is what happens when you ask for bacon on your burger in a halal kfc-

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polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20027 Canberra Gender:	Re: Anti-Halal extremists Reply #62 - Nov 23^rd, 2014 at 2:41pm If KFC don't want to certify their product as halal, why do they bother buying halal chicken? Doesn't that just subject them to "extortionist" halal fees (passed on by steggles) for no purpose?
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polite_gandalf

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Re: Anti-Halal extremists
Reply #63 - Nov 23^rd, 2014 at 2:44pm

Baronvonrort wrote on Nov 23^rd, 2014 at 2:40pm:

To be certified as a halal KFC they cannot sell a bacon and cheese zinger, this KFC is one of the halal ones yet they have a sign on the fridge saying not halal which might apply to the contents of the fridge.

You've given a good reason why KFC might not want their product to be halal certified. But you haven't addressed why they buy halal certified chicken in the first place - only to turn it into a non-halal product.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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Brian Ross

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Re: Anti-Halal extremists
Reply #64 - Nov 23^rd, 2014 at 3:10pm

bogarde73 wrote on Nov 23^rd, 2014 at 9:14am:

Why should we be funding the Islamic community through the food we eat?

We aren't. Some companies however are paying fees for services provided by some within the Islamic community, exactly as they do to Jewish authorities for Kosher certification. Don't hear an outcry about that, I wonder why? Roll Eyes

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Brian Ross

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Re: Anti-Halal extremists
Reply #65 - Nov 23^rd, 2014 at 3:12pm

Adamant wrote on Nov 23^rd, 2014 at 9:15am:

[quote author=Brian_Ross link=1416492250/31#31 date=1416649565]So, your evidence that Australian Halal certification benefits Terrorism is one group, in France that undertakes Halal certification is linked to the Muslim Brotherhood (who were, until two years ago, the legal government of Egypt)?quote]

So Brian, you would have us believe no money given to or by muslims in Australia has ever funded terrorism abroad?

No. However, you're essentially claiming ALL monies paid to Muslims, no matter who they are, is used to fund Terrorism. You can't even produce any proof of a link between Australian Halal certification and Terrorism funding, Adamant. As I've pointed out, a link between a FRENCH company and the Muslim Brotherhood (who more than likely aren't a Terrorist organisation outside of Egypt where the military government finds it politically expedient to declare them thus), won't cut it, Adamant. Roll Eyes

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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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freediver

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Re: Anti-Halal extremists
Reply #66 - Nov 23^rd, 2014 at 3:18pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 23^rd, 2014 at 2:41pm:

If KFC don't want to certify their product as halal, why do they bother buying halal chicken? Doesn't that just subject them to "extortionist" halal fees (passed on by steggles) for no purpose?

For the same reason I probably buy Halal food. Most of these extortionist fees are applied at the abattoir level, which allows them to squeeze the entire industry. There are a small number of abattoirs, compared to say the number of farmers or the number of retail outlets. This affects prices across the entire industry. Even if you buy the non-halal product, the price will be influenced (increased) by this extortion. That's what barriers to trade do.

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Brian Ross

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Re: Anti-Halal extremists
Reply #67 - Nov 23^rd, 2014 at 3:19pm

Soren wrote on Nov 23^rd, 2014 at 9:56am:

Brian Ross wrote on Nov 22^nd, 2014 at 11:55pm:

Soren wrote on Nov 22^nd, 2014 at 11:19pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 22^nd, 2014 at 11:09pm:

Soren wrote on Nov 22^nd, 2014 at 11:02pm:

Why is Australia expected to accommodate sharia law when it comes to food??

They're not - yet Australian business are choosing to certify. Why is that?

Fear.

Nobody ever goes along with Islam for any other reason. It makes no intellectual or emotional sense. Intimidation and the latent threat of violence - Islam.

Islam is violent until it obtains Submission. Everyone know that. Submit, or... er.... that's it. No alternative.

I'd suggest greed is a much greater motivator, Soren. No one is forcing these companies to seek Halal certification. They do so in order to gain access to a lucrative market. Roll Eyes

So the local Muslim market is now so lucrative that everyone must have halal so the few can be satisfied?

It is cheaper to have one production line rather than two, Soren. Simple economics - economy of scale. Halal does not make the product poisonous, it actually makes it if anything better by enforcing greater levels of cleanliness and the decreased use of animal derived additives and so on.

As for Kosher - it is exactly the same. The product bears a little symbol or statement. You won't find a non-Kosher production line and a Kosher one, it is simply uneconomic to do so. Yet you don't complain about it. Why?

Therefore, what is your complaint? That the product has a little symbol or statement on it's labelling? Sheesh! Does your Islamophobia know no bounds? Are you really that rabid? Roll Eyes

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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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Baronvonrort

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Re: Anti-Halal extremists
Reply #68 - Nov 23^rd, 2014 at 3:36pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 23^rd, 2014 at 2:44pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Nov 23^rd, 2014 at 2:40pm:

To be certified as a halal KFC they cannot sell a bacon and cheese zinger, this KFC is one of the halal ones yet they have a sign on the fridge saying not halal which might apply to the contents of the fridge.

You've given a good reason why KFC might not want their product to be halal certified. But you haven't addressed why they buy halal certified chicken in the first place - only to turn it into a non-halal product.

KFC would buy in bulk for their franchises to get a better deal with higher quantity, they could quite easily take their business to another company.

How do you turn a halal product into a non halal product, are you saying the fee steggles pays for halal certification is not enough and KFC also have to pay this halal extortion fee as well for KFC to be halal certified?

I don't think i have ever eaten steggles chickens, i prefer free range chicken that has not been fed female hormones to grow faster.

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Leftists and the Ayatollahs have a lot in common when it comes to criticism of Islam, they don't tolerate it.

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Baronvonrort

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Re: Anti-Halal extremists
Reply #69 - Nov 23^rd, 2014 at 3:39pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 23^rd, 2014 at 2:41pm:

If KFC don't want to certify their product as halal, why do they bother buying halal chicken? Doesn't that just subject them to "extortionist" halal fees (passed on by steggles) for no purpose?

How can KFC certify their product as being halal without paying the halal extortion fee?

If we look a bit deeper does the halal extortion fee for certification extend to the producers and retailers?

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Leftists and the Ayatollahs have a lot in common when it comes to criticism of Islam, they don't tolerate it.

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freediver

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Re: Anti-Halal extremists
Reply #70 - Nov 23^rd, 2014 at 3:49pm

The fee only applies to the abattoir and it's produce. If you slap a slice of bacon on a halal chicken, it ceases to be halal. A supermarket can sell halal chicken, but the supermarket itself will not be halal because it also sells bacon and cannot afford the fee. The only reason most abattoirs are compelled to pay the fee is because foreign governments (not the market place or the customers) impose it. They even interfere in the local halal certification industry to force certifiers to collude to push prices up.

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Stratos Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 4725	Re: Anti-Halal extremists Reply #71 - Nov 23^rd, 2014 at 3:59pm freediver wrote on Nov 23^rd, 2014 at 3:49pm: They even interfere in the local halal certification industry to force certifiers to collude to push prices up. What data supports this?
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polite_gandalf

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Re: Anti-Halal extremists
Reply #72 - Nov 23^rd, 2014 at 4:12pm

freediver wrote on Nov 23^rd, 2014 at 3:18pm:

For the same reason I probably buy Halal food. Most of these extortionist fees are applied at the abattoir level, which allows them to squeeze the entire industry. There are a small number of abattoirs, compared to say the number of farmers or the number of retail outlets. This affects prices across the entire industry. Even if you buy the non-halal product, the price will be influenced (increased) by this extortion. That's what barriers to trade do.

Pure conjecture on your part. The Australian Chicken Meat Federation for one disagrees with you:

Quote:

Does the customer pay more because of the Halal requirements?
No. To meet Halal requirements imposes minimal additional costs on processors which are more than compensated for by the additional market that can be serviced. Consequently, neither the Muslim customer buying certified Halal products nor the customer buying product that is not certified Halal is paying any more for chicken meat.

http://www.chicken.org.au/page.php?id=150#G21

Then of course there's all the other industries who are tripping over themselves to jump on board halal certification, and who describe it as anything but an extortion:

Quote:

A Cadbury spokesman said the “small fees” paid to certification bodies didn’t affect pricing and were more than offset by access to broader markets, which created more local jobs.

“It’s consumer information, similar to gluten-free or kosher labels ... nothing in our products or the way we manufacture our products has been changed to attain halal certification,” he said.

A Nestle spokeswoman also said costs were not passed on to consumers, and she insisted halal certification was not used as a marketing tool.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/halal-food-outrage-from-antiislam-critics/story...

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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Baronvonrort

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Re: Anti-Halal extremists
Reply #73 - Nov 23^rd, 2014 at 4:43pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 23^rd, 2014 at 4:12pm:

freediver wrote on Nov 23^rd, 2014 at 3:18pm:

For the same reason I probably buy Halal food. Most of these extortionist fees are applied at the abattoir level, which allows them to squeeze the entire industry. There are a small number of abattoirs, compared to say the number of farmers or the number of retail outlets. This affects prices across the entire industry. Even if you buy the non-halal product, the price will be influenced (increased) by this extortion. That's what barriers to trade do.

Pure conjecture on your part. The Australian Chicken Meat Federation for one disagrees with you:

Quote:

Does the customer pay more because of the Halal requirements?
No. To meet Halal requirements imposes minimal additional costs on processors which are more than compensated for by the additional market that can be serviced. Consequently, neither the Muslim customer buying certified Halal products nor the customer buying product that is not certified Halal is paying any more for chicken meat.

http://www.chicken.org.au/page.php?id=150#G21

Then of course there's all the other industries who are tripping over themselves to jump on board halal certification, and who describe it as anything but an extortion:

Quote:

A Cadbury spokesman said the “small fees” paid to certification bodies didn’t affect pricing and were more than offset by access to broader markets, which created more local jobs.

“It’s consumer information, similar to gluten-free or kosher labels ... nothing in our products or the way we manufacture our products has been changed to attain halal certification,” he said.

A Nestle spokeswoman also said costs were not passed on to consumers, and she insisted halal certification was not used as a marketing tool.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/halal-food-outrage-from-antiislam-critics/story...

Muslims are only 2% of our population,it's BS to claim there will be a huge market increase by catering for superstitions in a dusty old book from the dark ages.

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Stratos

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Re: Anti-Halal extremists
Reply #74 - Nov 23^rd, 2014 at 4:50pm

Baronvonrort wrote on Nov 23^rd, 2014 at 4:43pm:

Muslims are only 2% of our population,it's BS to claim there will be a huge market increase by catering for superstitions in a dusty old book from the dark ages.

approximately half a million people aren't a market worth catering to?

2% means that there are more Muslims than ceoliacs, and there is a solid market for gluten free products already.

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Pete Waldo wrote on Jan 15^th, 2014 at 11:24pm:

Thus killing those Canaanite babies while they were still innocent, was a particularly merciful act

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