Karnal wrote: Quote:


They say?

Well here's your big chance, go and ask them for an explanation that clearly shows how the fundamentalists have got it wrong.

World's top Muslim leaders condemn attacks on Iraqi Christians

Two of the leading voices in the Muslim world denounced the persecution of Christians in Iraq, at the hands of extremists proclaiming a caliphate under the name Islamic State.

The most explicit condemnation came from Iyad Ameen Madani, the Secretary General for the Organization of Islamic Cooperation, the group representing 57 countries, and 1.4 billion Muslims.

In a statement, he officially denounced the "forced deportation under the threat of execution” of Christians, calling it a "crime that cannot be tolerated.” The Secretary General also distanced Islam from the actions of the militant group known as ISIS, saying they "have nothing to do with Islam and its principles that call for justice, kindness, fairness, freedom of faith and coexistence.”

Meanwhile, Turkey's top cleric, the spiritual successor to the caliphate under the Ottoman Empire, also touched on the topic during a peace conference of Islamic scholars.

In a not-so-veiled swipe at ISIS, Mehmet Gormez declared that "an entity that lacks legal justification has no authority to declare war against a political gathering, any country or community.” He went on to say that Muslims should not be hostile towards "people with different views, values and beliefs, and regard them as enemies.”

Their remarks come at a time when Christian leaders in Iraq have called on Muslim leaders worldwide to denounce the anti-Christian violence in the country. In the past decade, the majority of Iraqi Christians have either fled the country or taken refuge in the autonomous region of Kurdistan.

The declaration of a "caliphate" by Islamist militants in Iraq lacks legitimacy and their death threats to Christians are a danger to civilization, Turkey's top cleric, the successor to the last caliph's most senior imam, said.

Islamic State, an armed group formerly allied to al Qaeda that has captured swathes of territory across Iraq, last month declared its leader, Ibrahim al-Baghdadi, "caliph" - the historical title last held by the Turkish Ottoman sultan who ruled much of the Muslim world.

"Such declarations have no legitimacy whatsoever," Mehmet Gormez, head of the Religious Affairs Directorate, the highest religious authority in Turkey, which, although a majority Muslim country, has been a secular state since the 1920s.

"Since the caliphate was abolished ... there have been movements that think they can pull together the Muslim world by re-establishing a caliphate, but they have nothing to do with reality, whether from a political or legal perspective."

Gormez said death threats against non-Muslims made by the group, formerly known as Islamic State in Iraq and the Levant (ISIL), were hugely damaging. "The statement made against Christians is truly awful. Islamic scholars need to focus on this (because) an inability to peacefully sustain other faiths and cultures heralds the collapse of a civilization," he told Reuters in an interview.

Brian Ross wrote on Dec 8^th, 2014 at 10:57pm:


There are two completely air tight rebuttals to this point Brian:

1. they are stupid
2. they are mendacious (google: taqqiya)

Now you'll get all sorts of inane arguments as to why its one or the other, but ultimately it will come down to this basic argument: "oh come on, I've read the Quranic translation, I'm sure thats what it means - and here I'll throw in a quote from jihad-watch, plus a quote from some nutjob muslim leader that no one listens to to prove it".

Neither of you have shown the slightest bit of evidence that the fundamentalists have got the doctrine wrong.

Why do you both run away from this issue?

By which Allah guides those who pursue His pleasure to the ways of peace and brings them out from darknesses into the light, by His permission, and guides them to a straight path.

Quran 5:16

Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things.

Quran 2:256

And fight them on until there is no more Tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in Allah; but if they cease, Let there be no hostility except to those who practise oppression.

Quran 2:193

Words of The Prophet:

Someone said to the Prophet, ‘Pray to God against the idolaters and curse them.’ The Prophet replied, ‘I have been sent to show mercy and have not been sent to curse.’

Thus says the Prophet, ‘Verily those who are patient in adversity and forgive wrongs are the doers of excellence.”

God is not merciful to him who is not so to mankind.

But this is not the first time I've produced these quotes is it moses? Would you say these excerpts from Islamic Doctrine support or refute the actions of ISIS like slaughtering non-combatants, raping and pillaging?

Finally, don't you ever f _ucking dare tell me I've never shown the slightest bit of evidence that the fundamentalists have got the doctrine wrong.

Luke 16:16  The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached , and every man presseth into it.

Rom 3:20  Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Rom 3:28  Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Gal 2:16  Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Gal 3:11  But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

You have not shown one bit of evidence that the fundamentalists have got it wrong.

You have shown contradictory verses only.

You have not produced any verses / doctrine which absolutely extinguish torture and death for disbelievers, hypocrites and corrupters, which extinguish the hate speech, which extinguish the self alienation from society, which extinguish taqiyya and kitman, which extinguish hijrah and jihad.