It's an old Biblical story. I have thought about it, and I still cannot recall where I got the idea from. I'll let you know if I do remember. It was probably something someone posted here.

The idea that Jews tend to be socially progressive I got from a female American Rabbi.

freediver wrote on Dec 6^th, 2014 at 9:28pm:


The Jewish Diaspora is not in the Bible, FD. The Torah predates it by at least a thousand years.

I’ve Googled your argument. I can’t find it anywhere.

Jews being socially progressive is a completely different idea to a belief that Jews abandoned the laws of Moses. If anything, Jewish progressiveness shows that people can change in spite of their religious laws and texts.

When you remember, please let me know.

freediver wrote on Dec 6^th, 2014 at 10:06pm:


Good work, FD, but you still haven’t said exactly what your idea is.

Do you remember what you came up with?

freediver wrote on Dec 6^th, 2014 at 10:19pm:


The entire history of the Jews, from the Exodus to 1947, is not about creating a religious state, but finding a promised land.

Muslims are not compelled to create a religious state any more than Jews are. If you took the Book of Leviticus to the letter, you would indeed create a religious state.

Israel is now secular because the British and the UN were quite careful.to leave it that way. Also, the young Zionists who created Israel were predominantly socialists. The Jews who emmigrated there from the West were largely social democrats. Few made it there from Russia, because Stalin wouldn’t allow it.

The Diaspora was not an historical event, but a series of events over time. Jews did follow the laws of Moses, including the stonings and beheadings, after the destruction of the Second Temple in Jerusalem.

The never-ever argument applied to Jews is just as silly as the one applied to Muslims. The reason there are so many Muslim bastards in the world today is not the influence of a never-ever sinister prophet, but the rise of Islamic fundamentalism.

Based on the Jews’ much more sinister prophets and kings, it stands to reason that if the Jews became just as dogmatic and literalist about their own traditional laws, they would be much bigger bastards than ISIL.

moses wrote on Dec 7^th, 2014 at 3:03pm:


Right. So Jesus is the singular influence of Jim.Jones, the Reverend Moon, the papal wars, the Inquisitions, and on and on.

Is that what you’re saying?

Karnal wrote: Quote:


If you can quote the doctrine of Christ they are / were following you have a point. If you can't back up your statement with teachings of Christ, you're lying.

moses wrote on Dec 7^th, 2014 at 3:22pm:


That’s strange, because I’ve heard plenty of Muslim leaders come out to say ISIS are not following the teachings of Muhammed.

Mendacious or srupid? Stupid or mendacious?

Sometimes a question is just a question.

Karnal wrote: Quote:


They say?

Well here's your big chance, go and ask them for an explanation that clearly shows how the fundamentalists have got it wrong.