Brian Ross wrote on Dec 18^th, 2014 at 11:39pm:


Hello John Smith

Even Asumming all those cool stories were true and not a diversion to try and make out he wasn't a muslim it's easy to answer.

Simple: takiya

Join Islam now the Quar'an has got you covered no matter what you want to commit. Debauchery, slave labor violence, raping, pillaging, murder, marrying small children we have it all.

NEXT!

Try again Soren - this time put some actual effort into it.

1. He was brought into the country by the Australian government, not the muslims
2. He was rejected by the muslim community as an extremist
3. He was even reported to the police by muslims for his extremism.

So I ask again - what exactly do you expect the muslim community to do? Take the law into their own hands?

You're right S, reporting a potential terrorist to the police is completely useless when the police don't do anything about it.

You haven't answered the question - what else could the muslim community have done other than what they already did?

Soren wrote on Dec 19^th, 2014 at 9:43pm:


Your moral grandstanding is completely off track. 2 people are dead because a madman killed them. Is this a problem with islam? No, it is a problem with madmen. Madmen kill people every day, but we don't have a moral panic about it if its not in the name of islam. Today another madman killed 8 kids - stabbed them to death. Would the kids be any deader if the killer had draped an islamic flag while he/she killed them?

The question you need to ask yourself, did the existence of islam of a muslim community make this man more likely to carry out his crime? You can't objectively say that it did. What we do know is that he was on bail as an accessory to murdering his wife - he probably decided to do what countless of mad criminals have done before him - go out on a bang - a deliberate suicide mission to avoid gaol time.

polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 19^th, 2014 at 9:59pm:


He allegedly had his wife killed - is that because of islam, or does it reflect a pattern of behaviour that puts the siege into context?

Also, answer my question, exactly what else could the muslim community have done to stop this individual?

polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 19^th, 2014 at 10:13pm:


Stop trying to make out the sick fker wasn't a muslim and followed the Quaran. Gotta hate those sharia honor killings muslims commit eh Einstein.

polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 19^th, 2014 at 9:59pm:


I don't see a moral panic, just a sad recognition.

Is it your contention that all atrocities in the name of Islam are at the hands of madmen or just this particular one that you wish to be divorced from islam?

Soren wrote on Dec 19^th, 2014 at 10:26pm:


And yet I cant imagine even Hilali would have condoned anyone who held up a cafe and killed two people - I can't even see how someone like Hilali would have even inspired such behaviour. My question is valid because the alleged culture within the Australian muslim culture you allude to here simply doesnt match up with the circumstances around this case: firstly he was imported here by the Australian government - not invited and not created by the Australian muslims; secondly he was rejected and shunned by mainstream muslims; thirdly he was reported to the police by the muslims - because of his extremism. So once again, what else exactly could the muslim community have done? Somehow force the police to be more vigilant? Take the law into their own hands?

I am also interested in an answer to my follow up question: did the existence of islam or a muslim community make this man more likely to carry out his crime? And if so, I expect a damn good rationale for it - because the evidence seems rather clear on this particular matter: he became a threat after a) the police failed to follow up on warnings received by the muslim community itself and b) he was granted bail after being charged as an accessory to his ex-wife's murder - and therefore was free to carry out the hold-up when he did.

Datalife wrote on Dec 19^th, 2014 at 10:28pm:


And yet I'm not divorcing it from islam - I'm acutely aware that he invoked islam during his attack. Doesn't mean that islam made him do it though.

He also allegedly had his wife killed, was wanted in Iran for fraud, and promoted himself as an expert in the arts of black magic. Did islam make him do these things as well? At the time of the siege he was out on bail after being charged as an accessory to murder - and there are countless instances of madmen carrying out a grandiose suicidal gesture when confronted with the realisation that they face a certain future behind bars. I suppose islam controls the NSW justice system too?