|dev|null wrote on Dec 4^th, 2014 at 5:17pm:




SLAVERY, IN THE BIBLE ?

Do you - imagine - that lawful 'slavery' doesn't exist today, in Western nations, like Australia ???

Everyone who draws breath, is usually a slave of/to at least one of their desires.

Romans 6:16
Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?



e.g.
Anyone [in a Western nation like Australia] who has a mortgage on his/her home, has made himself/herself a bond slave, to the person [the lender of the money] who [actually] bought and owns their house/home.

THE BORROWER HAS SIGNED A LEGALLY BINDING AGREEMENT TO THAT EFFECT!


The borrower has legally made himself a 'bond slave' by signing a mortgage agreement.

[And there is [was] usually a clause in mortgage agreements that the lender can demand 'immediate' repayment of the balance of the amount owed. !! ]

i.e.
In the legal agreement they have signed, the borrower promises to pay back, the money that they have borrowed, plus interest.

If the borrower defaults on that promise, the lender or bank, can take legal possession of 'your' property. !!!




And yes, in those verses, in the NT, that refer to persons who find themselves in a circumstance where they are LAWFULLY slaves, the advice from Paul is that slaves should obey their masters!

Is that advice 'wrong' ?

In a modern 'context' why is it wrong, to expect someone to honour their legal agreements [as a 'mortgage slave'] ?


Yadda said....
Quote:





Yet in Moses law;

Deuteronomy 23:15
Thou shalt not deliver unto his master the servant which is escaped from his master unto thee:
16  He shall dwell with thee, even among you, in that place which he shall choose in one of thy gates, where it liketh him best: thou shalt not oppress him.



And of course, there is;
Quote:

Four Iraqi Christian children, who were all beheaded by the Islamic State, refused to betray Jesus and graciously died in his name when the ISIS militants gave them one last chance to say the Islamic words of conversion, the Rev. Canon Andrew White revealed in a recent interview.

In an interview last week with the Christian Broadcast Network published on the Orthodox Christian Network, White, who is the only Anglican vicar in Iraq and is know as "The Vicar of Baghdad," detailed the plight of Christians in Iraq and recounted two instances when Islamic State's forceful conversions directly pulled the strings of his heart.

Speaking on ISIS' brutal mistreatment of religious minorities, White recounted the recent incident when ISIS militants beheaded four kids, all of whom were under the age of 15, when the kids refused to say that they would follow the Prophet Muhammad and told the ISIS fighters that they will always "love" and "follow" Jesus.

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"ISIS turned up and they said to the children, 'you say the words that you will follow Muhammad.' The Children, all under 15, four of them, they said, 'no, we love Yasua [Jesus]. We have always loved Yasua. We have always followed Yasua. Yasua has always been with us.'" White said. "[The Militants] said, 'say the words!' [The Children] said, 'no, we can't do that.' They chopped all their heads off."

"How do you respond to that?" White asked. "You just cry. They are my children. That is what we have been going through. That is what we are going through."

White spoke of another instance, which happened a few days prior to the children's beheading, where a male Christian adult was forced to say the Islamic words of conversion, or else all of his children were going to be beheaded. With his children's lives at stake, the man could not afford to be bold and caved in saying said the words of conversion.

White said that later that day, the man called him to ask if Jesus still loved him even though he had said the Islamic words of conversion.

"[Militants] say to one man, an adult, 'you say the words of conversion or we will kill all of your children.' He was desperate. He said the words," White said. "Then he phoned me and said '[Father], I said the words, does that mean Yasua doesn't love me anymore? I have always loved Yasua. I said those words because I couldn't see my children be killed.' I said, 'Jesus still loves you. He will always love you.'"

White, who is now staying in Israel after fleeing from Baghdad after receiving personal death threats from the Islamic State, said that it is "impossible" for Christians to live in Iraq because of the Islamic State's brutal mistreatment of religious minorities.

"They have threatened to kill me. They are after me. They wanted that Abuna [Father] from England," White said. "So the Archbishop of Canterbury said 'you've got to leave now.'"

White further notes that over 250,000 Christians have now fled from the caliphate and are living as refugees in the Kurdish North.

ISIS mistreatment of children and religious minorities goes well beyond just the forced Islamic conversions. White noted that many children, not just the four he previously mentioned, are being either beheaded and their bodies cut in half.

In addition, Yazidi refugees interviewed by the Daily Mail say that ISIS not only systematically kills yazidi and Christian men and women, they have also brutally cut the throats of babies. One 13-year-old Yazidi from one particular Yazidi village claims that the militants killed over 100 kids from his village.

ISIS militants are also kidnapping and selling off baby girls as sex slaves. A recent pricing guide released by Islamic State leadership reveals that Christian and Yazidi girls aged 1 to 9 years old are being sold as sex slaves for just $172.

Although ISIS recruits kids and other young adults to join the caliphate by advertising a false sense of Islamic Purpose, the ISIS leadership are also said to brutally treat their rank-and-file fighters.

Testimony from one 15-year-old former ISIS fighter says that ISIS leaders drugged fighters to make them more likely to commit a suicide bomb attack in battle. Additionally, a United Nations report states that ISIS militants are using kids as human shields in battle and also force them to donate blood to wounded ISIS fighters.

And what is the relevance of these two posts to the questions I asked, Soren about your apparent ignorance on the topic you were proclaiming?   

Yet, Soren it appears to have passed you by that mainstream Muslim Leaders were proclaiming that Slavery is wrong and not a part of mainstream Islam.   Another sign of your obvious bigotry towards all things Muslim, I think.   

Soren wrote on Dec 6^th, 2014 at 8:45pm:


So many adjectives?  All for just little ol' me, Soren?  I feel honoured.

Perhaps like me, mainstream Muslim leaders try and be objective, which of course you can never lay claim to!   

Soren wrote on Dec 7^th, 2014 at 10:01pm:


I cannot predict what will happen in the next year with any accuracy, Soren, let alone what will happen in the next 100.   Unlike you, I don't leap at every shadow and cower at every sound.

All I can do is talk about what has happened in the last 100 years and what is happening now.   We have no more Sh'ria in Australia now, than we had 100 years ago, Soren.   Individuals can live and order their lives how they like and if they wish to live by the principles of Sh'ria that is up to them and nothing you can do will stop it.   You appear to want to though, through I suspect draconian measures, which persecute innocent people merely because they profess to being worshippers of Islam.  Yet, you're surprised when I suggest you wish to engage in religious persecution.  It's almost as if there is a disjoint between what you think and and what you type.  You never seem to consider the consequences on innocent people.   Instead you decree that we must all march to the beat of your drum, in lockstep with you and nothing else will be tolerated.

What happens in 100 years will be of no concern of me or you, Soren.  We will be both be long dead, long buried or burnt.   You need to let go and let your children inherit and order their society as they see fit.  Hopefully they will be far more tolerant than you are.   One would hope they will not follow your lead and will throw off the shackles of your narrow-mindedness.   

Quote:


I am, Soren?  Perhaps you'd care to point out where I have agitated for Sh'ria to be introduced in Australia?   Somewhere?   Of course, you won't apologise, now will you?   If you want to talk about honesty, I think you need to look carefully in the mirror before accusing others of dishonesty, Soren.   

Soren wrote on Dec 7^th, 2014 at 10:59pm:


Perhaps you'd care to point to the Australian legislation which recognises Sh'ria law, Soren?

I look forward to the results of your search.   

Quote:


I suspect I know more about Australian law than you do, Soren, particularly as you appear to keep posting bullshit like this, all the time.   

Soren wrote on Dec 7^th, 2014 at 10:59pm:


would you say this is a good description of this post?:

Soren wrote on Jun 2^nd, 2013 at 9:42pm:


needless to say, everything you describe here about this "islamic dickhead" was a lie - right down to the fact that he wasn't even muslim.

Do you really think you're the one to be grandstanding about being "dishonest to an amazing degree"?