Australian Politics Forum - The Hidden Majority

Datalife Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 2405 Gender:	Re: The Hidden Majority Reply #30 - Dec 12^th, 2014 at 3:06pm Karnal wrote on Dec 12^th, 2014 at 3:02pm: Actually," lecturing on religious misunderstandings" provided a clue for me, DL. Should we avoid this wherever possible? We? Take it up with HotSocks, he is the one claiming a religious nutter has misunderstood a religious message.
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Karnal

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Re: The Hidden Majority
Reply #31 - Dec 12^th, 2014 at 4:07pm

Datalife wrote on Dec 12^th, 2014 at 3:06pm:

Karnal wrote on Dec 12^th, 2014 at 3:02pm:

Actually," lecturing on religious misunderstandings" provided a clue for me, DL.

Should we avoid this wherever possible?

We? Take it up with HotSocks, he is the one claiming a religious nutter has misunderstood a religious message.

Yes, DL, but you’ve stated the principle we should all follow: "it is best to leave it as they reckon it is so and that is what they believe in and take it at face value".

I take this to mean that if someone says something it should not be questioned.

Sorry to quibble, but is there another interpretation here?

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Datalife

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Re: The Hidden Majority
Reply #32 - Dec 12^th, 2014 at 4:15pm

Karnal wrote on Dec 12^th, 2014 at 4:07pm:

Datalife wrote on Dec 12^th, 2014 at 3:06pm:

Karnal wrote on Dec 12^th, 2014 at 3:02pm:

Actually," lecturing on religious misunderstandings" provided a clue for me, DL.

Should we avoid this wherever possible?

We? Take it up with HotSocks, he is the one claiming a religious nutter has misunderstood a religious message.

Yes, DL, but you’ve stated the rule we should all to follow: "it is best to leave it as they reckon it is so and that is what they believe in and take it at face value".

I take this to mean that if someone says something it should not be questioned.

Sorry to quibble, but is there another interpretation here?

Read it again. Parse the words slowly. It is pointless to discuss what you may consider to be misinterpretations of religion with religious nutters. The writings are vague contradictory and subjective.

If however like Hotsocks you feel compelled to discuss doctrine and tell them where they are wrong, by all means, feel free.

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"If they’re out there in the high seas, what you would do is seek to turn them back through the agency of the Australian Navy".

Kevin Rudd on 2GB, July 12, 2007

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Karnal

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Re: The Hidden Majority
Reply #33 - Dec 12^th, 2014 at 4:35pm

Datalife wrote on Dec 12^th, 2014 at 4:15pm:

Karnal wrote on Dec 12^th, 2014 at 4:07pm:

Datalife wrote on Dec 12^th, 2014 at 3:06pm:

Karnal wrote on Dec 12^th, 2014 at 3:02pm:

Actually," lecturing on religious misunderstandings" provided a clue for me, DL.

Should we avoid this wherever possible?

We? Take it up with HotSocks, he is the one claiming a religious nutter has misunderstood a religious message.

Yes, DL, but you’ve stated the rule we should all to follow: "it is best to leave it as they reckon it is so and that is what they believe in and take it at face value".

I take this to mean that if someone says something it should not be questioned.

Sorry to quibble, but is there another interpretation here?

Read it again. Parse the words slowly. It is pointless to discuss what you may consider to be misinterpretations of religion with religious nutters. The writings are vague contradictory and subjective.

If however like Hotsocks you feel compelled to discuss doctrine and tell them where they are wrong, by all means, feel free.

I tend to agree, DL, but your rule would have the effect of making the Islam board redundant, no?

Are you trying to put us all out of a job?

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Datalife

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Re: The Hidden Majority
Reply #34 - Dec 12^th, 2014 at 4:38pm

Karnal wrote on Dec 12^th, 2014 at 4:35pm:

Datalife wrote on Dec 12^th, 2014 at 4:15pm:

Karnal wrote on Dec 12^th, 2014 at 4:07pm:

Datalife wrote on Dec 12^th, 2014 at 3:06pm:

Karnal wrote on Dec 12^th, 2014 at 3:02pm:

Actually," lecturing on religious misunderstandings" provided a clue for me, DL.

Should we avoid this wherever possible?

We? Take it up with HotSocks, he is the one claiming a religious nutter has misunderstood a religious message.

Yes, DL, but you’ve stated the rule we should all to follow: "it is best to leave it as they reckon it is so and that is what they believe in and take it at face value".

I take this to mean that if someone says something it should not be questioned.

Sorry to quibble, but is there another interpretation here?

Read it again. Parse the words slowly. It is pointless to discuss what you may consider to be misinterpretations of religion with religious nutters. The writings are vague contradictory and subjective.

If however like Hotsocks you feel compelled to discuss doctrine and tell them where they are wrong, by all means, feel free.

I tend to agree, DL, but your rule would have the effect of making the Islam board redundant, no?

Are you trying to put us all out of a job?

No.

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"If they’re out there in the high seas, what you would do is seek to turn them back through the agency of the Australian Navy".

Kevin Rudd on 2GB, July 12, 2007

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polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20027 Canberra Gender:	Re: The Hidden Majority Reply #35 - Dec 12^th, 2014 at 4:42pm Karnal wrote on Dec 12^th, 2014 at 4:35pm: I tend to agree, DL, but your rule would have the effect of making the Islam board redundant, no? Are you trying to put us all out of a job? Goodness no K - if DL wasn't able to come in here and troll constantly mock people for talking about islam, he'd have nothing else to do.
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Datalife

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Re: The Hidden Majority
Reply #36 - Dec 12^th, 2014 at 4:54pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 12^th, 2014 at 4:42pm:

Karnal wrote on Dec 12^th, 2014 at 4:35pm:

I tend to agree, DL, but your rule would have the effect of making the Islam board redundant, no?

Are you trying to put us all out of a job?

Goodness no K - if DL wasn't able to come in here and troll constantly mock people for talking about islam, he'd have nothing else to do.

I am present for far less time and make less posts than yourself and Karnal. So what was that about nothing else to do again?

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"If they’re out there in the high seas, what you would do is seek to turn them back through the agency of the Australian Navy".

Kevin Rudd on 2GB, July 12, 2007

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Yadda

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Re: The Hidden Majority
Reply #37 - Dec 12^th, 2014 at 5:54pm

|dev|null wrote on Dec 12^th, 2014 at 1:38pm:

Yadda wrote on Dec 11^th, 2014 at 11:19pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Dec 11^th, 2014 at 7:46pm:

Quote:

To live up to Mohammed's example is as easy as pie.

According to whom?

You?

But we all know you're extremely bigoted so your opinion is worthless, Soren.

It lacks any objectivity on the matter. Roll Eyes

Too easy.........................

According to ISLAM's tenets and laws.

So, are all the mainstream Muslims who don't follow the "tenets and laws" you claim are Islam's, being bad Muslims Yadda?

Hot Breath,

Yes, they are.

They are being very, very 'bad' moslems !

In fact Allah [in the Koran] and Mohammed in the Hadith, have stated that such moslems, are NOT in fact moslems!

ISLAMIC law texts - pronouncing death to moslem hypocrites ['wayward' moslems].....

"Ibn 'Abbas reported that the Prophet said: "The bare essence of Islam and the basics of the religion are three [acts], upon which Islam has been established. Whoever leaves one of them becomes an unbeliever and his blood may legally be spilled. [The acts are:] Testifying that there is no God except Allah, the obligatory prayers, and the fast of Ramadan."...."
fiqhussunnah/#3.110

n.b.
"Whoever......becomes an unbeliever.....his blood may legally be spilled."

So if you do not, for example, attend/perform prayers, you are not a moslem

That is the law of ISLAM.

AND....

"...the Prophet said, 'If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him."

- DEAD.
hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #004.052.260

AND....

"Why should ye be divided into two parties about the Hypocrites? Allah hath upset them for their (evil) deeds. Would ye guide those whom Allah hath thrown out of the Way? For those whom Allah hath thrown out of the Way, never shalt thou find the Way.
They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks;-"
Koran 4.88, 89
These verses advise how moslems should 'interact' with 'hypocrites'.

Good moslems must never take hypocrites/apostates as friends.

And when hypocrites oppose you [in Allah's way, in Allah's cause], kill them.i Quote:

Could it be that you've misunderstood Mohammed's message?

Hot Breath,

How could i possibly have misunderstood Mohammed's message ........when Allah himself has stated that Mohamed's behaviour is an exemplar for every pure moslem!

Dictionary;
exemplar = = a person or thing serving as a typical example or appropriate model.

"Ye have indeed in the Messenger of Allah [i.e. Mohammed] a beautiful pattern (of conduct) for any one whose hope is in Allah and the Final Day, and who engages much in the Praise of Allah."
Koran 33.021

Hot Breath,

And what was Mohammed's example ???

Mohammed, ...the fornicator, ...the adulterer, ...the rapist.

Quote:

"We went out with Allah's Messenger"
= = Mohammed was in the company of these men.

"on the expedition to the Bi'l-Mustaliq and took captive some excellent Arab women"
= = it was some form of raiding party, where they, 'took captive some excellent Arab women'.

"and we desired them"
= = hmmmm, i wonder what that means?

"for we were suffering from the absence of our wives"
= = ah, in the absence they wives, they desired these women for sex, to satisfy their sexual lust.

"(but at the same time) we also desired ransom for them."
= = in their minds, they sought to sexually 'use' these captive Arab women, and then let their menfolk redeem them.

"So we decided to have sexual intercourse with them"
= = yep, Allah's finest, sought to sexually 'use' these 'excellent' captive Arab women.

Those [above] extracts from the Hadith are cited, with references, here;

Bikeway rapist gets 25 years in jail
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1251431040/8#8

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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polite_gandalf

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Re: The Hidden Majority
Reply #38 - Dec 12^th, 2014 at 9:29pm

Datalife wrote on Dec 12^th, 2014 at 4:54pm:

I am present for far less time and make less posts than yourself and Karnal. So what was that about nothing else to do again?

I'll happily admit I waste way too much time here.

But then again I actually try to generate constructive discussions about islamic topics - on the islam board. As opposed to only coming here to troll other members.

Oh, and I'm not the one constantly declaring "I don't care" about the topics I contribute to.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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Datalife

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Re: The Hidden Majority
Reply #39 - Dec 12^th, 2014 at 9:39pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 12^th, 2014 at 9:29pm:

Datalife wrote on Dec 12^th, 2014 at 4:54pm:

I am present for far less time and make less posts than yourself and Karnal. So what was that about nothing else to do again?

I'll happily admit I waste way too much time here.

But then again I actually try to generate constructive discussions about islamic topics - on the islam board. As opposed to only coming here to troll other members.

Oh, and I'm not the one constantly declaring "I don't care" about the topics I contribute to.

It was I care not, and as you well know and I explained in the face of your misrepresentation not about the topic, but a specific post. I expect outright lies from Brain, devious dishonesty from Hotsocks, but I thought that your previous misreprentation of my care not statement was an aberration in your eagerness to defend your faith, but it appears not. You are just another dishonest apologist.

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"If they’re out there in the high seas, what you would do is seek to turn them back through the agency of the Australian Navy".

Kevin Rudd on 2GB, July 12, 2007

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Yadda

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Re: The Hidden Majority
Reply #40 - Dec 12^th, 2014 at 9:44pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 12^th, 2014 at 9:29pm:

Datalife wrote on Dec 12^th, 2014 at 4:54pm:

I am present for far less time and make less posts than yourself and Karnal. So what was that about nothing else to do again?

I'll happily admit I waste way too much time here.

Me too.

Quote:

But then again I actually try to generate constructive discussions about islamic topics - on the islam board.

Me too.

But i do worry that ASIO may read my posts, here on OzPol, .....and conclude that i am really a surreptitious Jihadist [impersonating a Christian here on OzPol] [.....given all of the violence inspiring Koran and Hadith verses i quote here] !!

Its a worry!

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Yadda Gold Member Offline Posts: 21611 A cat with a view	Re: The Hidden Majority Reply #41 - Dec 12^th, 2014 at 9:48pm Datalife, Be advised, gandalf is a moslem, 1st, 2nd, and 3rd. Dictionary; Muslim = = a follower of Islam.
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Datalife

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Re: The Hidden Majority
Reply #42 - Dec 12^th, 2014 at 9:48pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 12^th, 2014 at 9:29pm:

Datalife wrote on Dec 12^th, 2014 at 4:54pm:

I am present for far less time and make less posts than yourself and Karnal. So what was that about nothing else to do again?

I'll happily admit I waste way too much time here.

But then again I actually try to generate constructive discussions about islamic topics - on the islam board. As opposed to only coming here to troll other members.

Oh, and I'm not the one constantly declaring "I don't care" about the topics I contribute to.

Myself I would be embarrassed to be counted in the ranks of and using the tactics of Brain and Hotsocks, but it seems dishonest debating is a characteristic of islamic apologists.

You have done your credibility no good. I gave you the benefit of the doubt because of your faith but you are now happily joined with liars and dishonest dissemblers. Congratulations.

Datalife wrote on Dec 4^th, 2014 at 2:04pm:

|dev|null wrote on Dec 4^th, 2014 at 1:52pm:

DL you actually answered the question! Pity you had to surround it with your usual torrent of abuse. Just goes to show how childish you that you react so emotionally to anything asked of you. You must have been a real ball in the Army. I wouldn't think such an emotional person would have made a good soldier. Grin

I thought your comprehension fails were feigned but I can see now that they are probably actual. You might want to read my last post again, or not, I care not.

Your dishonesty in truncating my post then questioning the changed meaning of that post is blatant and obvious. Brain is a liar and you're deviously dishonest. What a family, what a tag team pair. Gandy must be so pleased to have you both in his corner. Roll Eyes

So why do the first reponders not respond to threads about christian extremists in the same way they do to islamic extremists?

Page four now and still no answer. Lots of dishonesty though. Grin

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"If they’re out there in the high seas, what you would do is seek to turn them back through the agency of the Australian Navy".

Kevin Rudd on 2GB, July 12, 2007

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Lionel Edriess

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Re: The Hidden Majority
Reply #43 - Dec 12^th, 2014 at 9:50pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 11^th, 2014 at 11:42am:

Annie Anthrax wrote on Dec 11^th, 2014 at 9:08am:

Oh whatever.

Surely you must have expected this Annie.

You won't get FD arguing the importance of not alienating the mainstream muslim community by not painting them all with the same brush anymore.

Very nice use of the idiom.

However, to continue the analogy, all those spots, stripes and pastels you refer to, all come out of the same can of paint.

This, despite different brushes and their wielders.

We already know it's not Muslims.

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Toughen up, Australia!

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polite_gandalf

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Re: The Hidden Majority
Reply #44 - Dec 12^th, 2014 at 10:01pm

Just out of curiosity DL - do you see any dishonesty on the part of the islam critics - such that might be worth similar treatment?

eg...

Soren wrote on Jun 2^nd, 2013 at 9:42pm:

The 'protest' was about the Swedish police shooting a knife-wielding would-be honour killing old bastard.

That's why the 'yoofs' of no particular culture erupted into action. The police shot an Islamic dickhead who was hot to implement Sharia law in his own family and the Mulims took exception to the Swedish law enforcement guys shooting him. It is still against the law to honour kill in Sweden and that infuriates all these 'yoofs' of no particular religion (ie Muslims).

Every word here from Soren is a malicious lie - there was no muslim involved, and obviously the whole "sharia law" scenario was invented.

Please can you clarify for me - are you actually interested in exposing dishonesty from both sides, or are you (for whatever reason) only interested in what the "apologists" do? It would be simply inconceivable that you haven't noticed any dishonesty from the other side. Its ok if this is the case, you may have a good reason - but from the tone of your last post, it appears that you would be the sort of person concerned about the use of dishonesty to push an agenda by all sides.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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