Australian Politics Forum - Sydney siege: Martin Place

Grappler Deep State Feller

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Re: Sydney siege: Martin Place
Reply #300 - Dec 15^th, 2014 at 6:28pm

cods wrote on Dec 15^th, 2014 at 6:19pm:

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Dec 15^th, 2014 at 5:59pm:

No - attention span....... too long of nothing happening makes them unwary.... I didn't mean cuddling like that..... more like taking your mind off the job to comfort some hysterical sheila who should be cheering that she's out.... any distraction can be dangerous.

Leave the comforting to those at the back, watch your front and keep your eye out for your mate who is in front of you.... in the hot seat.

well thats true of course..but be honest have you taken a close look at the gear they wear.. if the women who is hysterical..grabbed hold of their gear wouldnt he look great throwing her at someone at the back whilst she is hanging on to him..

how about looking at this from where they are standing...
nothing is rehearsed no book can tell them how to act its all as it happens...lucky for us we are never in those situations....but I would hope people wouldnt nit pic

those women came out flying... who knows what they have been through...how would they know where to go if they werent helped..?..

in movies its always different isnt it..they know exactly where to go..

Those guys are not there to keep the cameras happy.. after the Iranian Embassy job 22 SAS were criticised for being rough with the hostages....

Would you prefer to be roughly handled or handed your head after a bomb blast or whatever?

The officers CANNOT assume that a hostage is actually a hostage and not some suicide bomber.... tough call... but that's the rules....

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cods

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Re: Sydney siege: Martin Place
Reply #301 - Dec 15^th, 2014 at 6:28pm

Baronvonrort wrote on Dec 15^th, 2014 at 6:15pm:

Aussie wrote on Dec 15^th, 2014 at 6:05pm:

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Dec 15^th, 2014 at 5:54pm:

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Dec 15^th, 2014 at 5:44pm:

I've been watching.... too many cops took their eyes off the front when the hostages arrived and cuddled them instead.... especially the women...that's for the boys at the back.. not the front...

And those frontline guys should be rotated every fifteen minutes...

Why? So they all get a go at the kissing, yeah fair's fair.

Grappler probably has a point, but I have no idea what the protocols are. I did laugh at the mid-morning ABC TV coverage when we saw two armed blokes, one kneeling and the other standing, and the bloke standing was totally unable to target his weapon even though he tried to seat it on his left arm held across his chest and left hand palmed against a wall next to his right shoulder......he held that for about 15 seconds and the two then swapped positions. We saw no more of them not long thereafter.

The Police sniper I saw had a Accuracy International rifle with a bipod at the front and a monopod in the rear of the stock.

They could sit there all day looking through their $4k Schmidt and Bender scope,the rear monopod is adjustable for tracking the targets with precision and ease.

The general duty cops probably lack the training and equipment of the police snipers.

does anyone know what the guy wants.. and if there is only one...someone mentioned bombs in and around SYdney.. probably our courts and govt buildings are targets......but what does he want????......it can only end up badly at this rate....those that have been released looked terribly traumatised...so what the rest are suffering we can only guess....

it must be getting to the stage where they are asking themselves.. how much longer can this guy hold out....I wonder if they have turned off the power and water??.. maybe not that would upset him even more...lets hope he likes chocolate.

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John Smith Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 75191 Gender:	Re: Sydney siege: Martin Place Reply #302 - Dec 15^th, 2014 at 6:29pm cods wrote on Dec 15^th, 2014 at 6:23pm: protocols..at a time like this yes, police would have protocols for these sorts of events .... thats what they train for
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Baronvonrort

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Re: Sydney siege: Martin Place
Reply #303 - Dec 15^th, 2014 at 6:29pm

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Dec 15^th, 2014 at 6:18pm:

Physically yes, Baron - it is the mental state of ennui that needs to be watched and training can't prevent that totally.. hence the need for changeover...

As an aside - I'd like to thank Wee Johnnie for his gun laws and the mayhem they caused in the general community by relentless jihads against gun owners and men generally (just in case, you know) ..... while leaving it open for any of criminal bent to obtain firearms more easily on the black market flooded with firearms...

It would be like the military where they need orders to shoot along with rules of engagement,it could be they cannot shoot until the guy starts shooting then they can take a shot if it is clear.

Not quite the same as a war zone for fatigue,i don't think we have a need for too many specialist snipers in the Police force.

Some of Howard''s laws were pretty good,keeping guns in a safe along with background checks for mental health and criminal record were good things.

The vast majority of drive by shootings and gun crimes in Sydney are done by middle eastern men using firearms that are illegal for law abiding firearm owners.

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cods

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Re: Sydney siege: Martin Place
Reply #304 - Dec 15^th, 2014 at 6:31pm

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Dec 15^th, 2014 at 6:24pm:

Be glad it's NOT the SAS (British), cods.... they don't make the mistake of assuming a hostage is not hostile.... and they are bundled up and hands and ankles secured with plastic ties....

IN any situation that is as fluid as this, everyone could be an enemy.... sorry 'bout that......

oh rubbish... I have never seen them do that....

since when is a hostage taken prisoner...ye gods if that was the case.. anyone taken hostage in Britain would stay where they were...rather than deal with the so called... help.

I think you read too much grap...or is that your book your writing.??.. I am reading the Murder of Allison Baden-Clay...the police played a waiting game there as well...they can be very patient..

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Grappler Deep State Feller

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Re: Sydney siege: Martin Place
Reply #305 - Dec 15^th, 2014 at 6:33pm

yes ... but when the anti-gun crusade devolved into setting in place any number of laws that permitted the state to CREATE criminals of ordinary citizens - the whole thing became dangerous to society and remains so.

Wee Johnnie and the implementers of such laws (small 'l' deliberate) have much to answer for - it's called reducing the populace under despotism...

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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Grappler Deep State Feller

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Re: Sydney siege: Martin Place
Reply #306 - Dec 15^th, 2014 at 6:34pm

cods wrote on Dec 15^th, 2014 at 6:31pm:

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Dec 15^th, 2014 at 6:24pm:

Be glad it's NOT the SAS (British), cods.... they don't make the mistake of assuming a hostage is not hostile.... and they are bundled up and hands and ankles secured with plastic ties....

IN any situation that is as fluid as this, everyone could be an enemy.... sorry 'bout that......

oh rubbish... I have never seen them do that....

since when is a hostage taken prisoner...ye gods if that was the case.. anyone taken hostage in Britain would stay where they were...rather than deal with the so called... help.

I think you read too much grap...or is that your book your writing.??.. I am reading the Murder of Allison Baden-Clay...the police played a waiting game there as well...they can be very patient..

You are correct - you have never seen that.

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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cods

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Re: Sydney siege: Martin Place
Reply #307 - Dec 15^th, 2014 at 6:37pm

John Smith wrote on Dec 15^th, 2014 at 6:29pm:

cods wrote on Dec 15^th, 2014 at 6:23pm:

protocols..at a time like this

yes, police would have protocols for these sorts of events .... thats what they train for Cheesy

right so if one is kneeling and one standing but cant get a fix with his rifle look up rule number 295 it says swap places and try again...

of course it does.. we all know coppers cant think fro themselves..all by the book... I wonder which book it is you and aussie read??>>....

and not forgetting all siege situations are always the same ..... Roll Eyes

must remember that..

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John Smith

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Re: Sydney siege: Martin Place
Reply #308 - Dec 15^th, 2014 at 6:38pm

cods wrote on Dec 15^th, 2014 at 6:37pm:

John Smith wrote on Dec 15^th, 2014 at 6:29pm:

cods wrote on Dec 15^th, 2014 at 6:23pm:

protocols..at a time like this

yes, police would have protocols for these sorts of events .... thats what they train for Cheesy

right so if one is kneeling and one standing but cant get a fix with his rifle look up rule number 295 it says swap places and try again...

of course it does.. we all know coppers cant think fro themselves..all by the book... I wonder which book it is you and aussie read??>>....

and not forgetting all siege situations are always the same ..... Roll Eyes

must remember that..

what are you demented? you seriously think police don't have protocols on how to deal with hostage situations?

go have another bottle of gin why don't you, leave the hysterics for another time.

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I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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Aussie

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Re: Sydney siege: Martin Place
Reply #309 - Dec 15^th, 2014 at 6:40pm

cods wrote on Dec 15^th, 2014 at 6:23pm:

Aussie wrote on Dec 15^th, 2014 at 6:05pm:

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Dec 15^th, 2014 at 5:54pm:

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Dec 15^th, 2014 at 5:44pm:

I've been watching.... too many cops took their eyes off the front when the hostages arrived and cuddled them instead.... especially the women...that's for the boys at the back.. not the front...

And those frontline guys should be rotated every fifteen minutes...

Why? So they all get a go at the kissing, yeah fair's fair.

Grappler probably has a point, but I have no idea what the protocols are. I did laugh at the mid-morning ABC TV coverage when we saw two armed blokes, one kneeling and the other standing, and the bloke standing was totally unable to target his weapon even though he tried to seat it on his left arm held across his chest and left hand palmed against a wall next to his right shoulder......he held that for about 15 seconds and the two then swapped positions. We saw no more of them not long thereafter.

I get more amusement from you aussie.. protocols..at a time like this,..

have you had the pleasure of standing for hours in full kit..not knowing if the guy inside has a bomb strapped to his chest....which might take him and you all the way to heaven??.. I am sure you havent...otherwise you would be more considerate of what you laugh at...

as for PROTOCOLS>. I am sure you can google them and find out just what is the protocol for a nutter in a cafe with a gun and a flag.. and heaps of hostages.. I bet its all there on wiki.. Roll Eyes

No cods. I have no idea. But I watched, as everyone could, how that bloke was physically unable to hold his designated position. Grappler makes sense. People are unable to just stand/sit in one position without a fidget. In a fidget, a disaster could occur. Hence, Grappler makes the obvious comment that there needs to be regular rotation.

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Baronvonrort

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Re: Sydney siege: Martin Place
Reply #310 - Dec 15^th, 2014 at 6:45pm

cods wrote on Dec 15^th, 2014 at 6:28pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Dec 15^th, 2014 at 6:15pm:

Aussie wrote on Dec 15^th, 2014 at 6:05pm:

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Dec 15^th, 2014 at 5:54pm:

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Dec 15^th, 2014 at 5:44pm:

I've been watching.... too many cops took their eyes off the front when the hostages arrived and cuddled them instead.... especially the women...that's for the boys at the back.. not the front...

And those frontline guys should be rotated every fifteen minutes...

Why? So they all get a go at the kissing, yeah fair's fair.

Grappler probably has a point, but I have no idea what the protocols are. I did laugh at the mid-morning ABC TV coverage when we saw two armed blokes, one kneeling and the other standing, and the bloke standing was totally unable to target his weapon even though he tried to seat it on his left arm held across his chest and left hand palmed against a wall next to his right shoulder......he held that for about 15 seconds and the two then swapped positions. We saw no more of them not long thereafter.

The Police sniper I saw had a Accuracy International rifle with a bipod at the front and a monopod in the rear of the stock.

They could sit there all day looking through their $4k Schmidt and Bender scope,the rear monopod is adjustable for tracking the targets with precision and ease.

The general duty cops probably lack the training and equipment of the police snipers.

does anyone know what the guy wants.. and if there is only one...someone mentioned bombs in and around SYdney.. probably our courts and govt buildings are targets......but what does he want????......it can only end up badly at this rate....those that have been released looked terribly traumatised...so what the rest are suffering we can only guess....

it must be getting to the stage where they are asking themselves.. how much longer can this guy hold out....I wonder if they have turned off the power and water??.. maybe not that would upset him even more...lets hope he likes chocolate.

The report I heard said there were 2 others with this guy before he entered Lindt.

I have heard reports of 2 bombs inside and another 2 in unknown locations.

Hostage situations rarely end well with muslims,the Beslan massacre shows what they can do.

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Leftists and the Ayatollahs have a lot in common when it comes to criticism of Islam, they don't tolerate it.

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Annie Anthrax

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Re: Sydney siege: Martin Place
Reply #311 - Dec 15^th, 2014 at 6:46pm

My friend's husband had 3 police cars and a paddywagon watch him eat his lunch today in an Artarmon café because the frightened woman behind the counter called the police after he'd ordered. My friend is muscular and has a beard. And he's a Muslim. They drew quite a crowd. This guy is an upstanding member of the community.

What's happening in Martin Place is scary, but as of now, we don't know what's exactly going on. It's far better to be part of the solution rather than a part of the problem. There are consequences for preaching hatred and they usually fall on those who least deserve it. It's important to act like the society we want to live in.

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Grappler Deep State Feller

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Re: Sydney siege: Martin Place
Reply #312 - Dec 15^th, 2014 at 6:47pm

Here, cods.. try this:-

http://www.eliteukforces.info/special-air-service/sas-operations/iranian-embassy...

"With all hostages secured, the reserve teams were brought in to assist in bringing them out. Troopers lined the central staircase as each hostage was roughly bundled down the stairs and out the rear doors to the back garden. Half way down the stairs, a terrorist was spotted amongst the hostages. He had a Russian assault grenade gripped tightly in his hand. Unable to open fire without risking hitting the hostages or other troopers, one SAS man clouted the terrorist with his MP5 stock. As soon as the man hit the floor at the base of the stairs, several SAS troopers opened fire, killing the man instantly.

Once outside, the hostages were all handcuffed and made to lay down. A quick head count revealed that there were too many hostages. The BBC sound man, Sim Harris identified another terrorist who was masquerading as a hostage. It's said that one SAS trooper separated the terrorist and led him back into the embassy, presumably to finish him off. Colleagues with cooler heads prevented him from doing so and the terrorist was properly arrested. Fowzi Nejad, the only surviving terrorist, was later sentenced to life imprisonment for his part in the siege. "

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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Baronvonrort

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Re: Sydney siege: Martin Place
Reply #313 - Dec 15^th, 2014 at 6:50pm

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Dec 15^th, 2014 at 6:33pm:

yes ... but when the anti-gun crusade devolved into setting in place any number of laws that permitted the state to CREATE criminals of ordinary citizens - the whole thing became dangerous to society and remains so.

Wee Johnnie and the implementers of such laws (small 'l' deliberate) have much to answer for - it's called reducing the populace under despotism...

If this happened in some parts of the USA you could have 10-12 out of 30 hostages licensed for concealed carry with a pistol and carrying,if there is only 1 offender it would have been over hours ago.

Statistics show those licensed for concealed carry have far lower offending rates for crimes compared to those not licensed for concealed carry.

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Leftists and the Ayatollahs have a lot in common when it comes to criticism of Islam, they don't tolerate it.

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ian Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 9451	Re: Sydney siege: Martin Place Reply #314 - Dec 15^th, 2014 at 6:51pm Is this still going? Sydney coppers, what are they waiting for. Get in there and off this prick.
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