Australian Politics Forum - Let’s be honest ManHaron Monis was an IS terrorist

Rocketanski

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Re: Let’s be honest ManHaron Monis was an IS terrorist
Reply #45 - Dec 19^th, 2014 at 12:24pm

Dnarever wrote on Dec 19^th, 2014 at 12:17pm:

Rocketanski wrote on Dec 19^th, 2014 at 11:44am:

He certainly perpetuated a terrorist act which makes him a terrorist. Add in the fact that he's muslim and incorporated Islamic beliefs in this act such as a jihad flag and other things , makes him an Islamic terrorist.

He certainly perpetuated a terrorist act which makes him a terrorist

Yes in the same manner as Martin Bryant was a terrorist ?

There was no rhyme or reason to Martin Bryant. He just blew away anybody. Monis is different.

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Rocketanski

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Re: Let’s be honest ManHaron Monis was an IS terrorist
Reply #46 - Dec 19^th, 2014 at 12:26pm

Datalife wrote on Dec 19^th, 2014 at 12:23pm:

There is no single, universally accepted, definition of terrorism. Terrorism is defined in the Code of Federal Regulations as “the unlawful use of force and violence against persons or property to intimidate or coerce a government, the civilian population, or any segment thereof, in furtherance of political or social objectives” (28 C.F.R. Section 0.85).

http://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/publications/terrorism-2002-2005

It certainly had a political objective.

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Datalife Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 2405 Gender:	Re: Let’s be honest ManHaron Monis was an IS terrorist Reply #47 - Dec 19^th, 2014 at 12:28pm greggerypeccary wrote on Dec 19^th, 2014 at 12:21pm: So, what is it that makes you believe he was a terrorist, as opposed to an attention seeking, violent, lunatic criminal? Terrorist and criminal are not mutually exclusive.
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greggerypeccary

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Re: Let’s be honest ManHaron Monis was an IS terrorist
Reply #48 - Dec 19^th, 2014 at 12:29pm

Datalife wrote on Dec 19^th, 2014 at 12:23pm:

There is no single, universally accepted, definition of terrorism. Terrorism is defined in the Code of Federal Regulations as “the unlawful use of force and violence against persons or property to intimidate or coerce a government, the civilian population, or any segment thereof, in furtherance of political or social objectives” (28 C.F.R. Section 0.85).

http://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/publications/terrorism-2002-2005

This incident happened in Australia.

Let's use an Australian definition, for argument's sake.

"an action or threat of action where the action causes certain defined forms of harm or interference and the action is done or the threat is made with the intention of advancing a political, religious or ideological cause".

Commonwealth of Australia (15 July 2004). "Transnational Terrorism: The Threat to Australia" (PDF). 1.0. Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade. ISBN 1-920959-04-1. Retrieved 12 April 2008.

What was his political, religious or ideological cause?

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greggerypeccary

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Re: Let’s be honest ManHaron Monis was an IS terrorist
Reply #49 - Dec 19^th, 2014 at 12:30pm

Rocketanski wrote on Dec 19^th, 2014 at 12:26pm:

Datalife wrote on Dec 19^th, 2014 at 12:23pm:

There is no single, universally accepted, definition of terrorism. Terrorism is defined in the Code of Federal Regulations as “the unlawful use of force and violence against persons or property to intimidate or coerce a government, the civilian population, or any segment thereof, in furtherance of political or social objectives” (28 C.F.R. Section 0.85).

http://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/publications/terrorism-2002-2005

It certainly had a political objective.

Which was ... ?

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Rocketanski

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Re: Let’s be honest ManHaron Monis was an IS terrorist
Reply #50 - Dec 19^th, 2014 at 12:34pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Dec 19^th, 2014 at 12:21pm:

Rocketanski wrote on Dec 19^th, 2014 at 12:18pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Dec 19^th, 2014 at 12:15pm:

Rocketanski wrote on Dec 19^th, 2014 at 12:09pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Dec 19^th, 2014 at 11:53am:

Rocketanski wrote on Dec 19^th, 2014 at 11:48am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Dec 19^th, 2014 at 11:40am:

Baronvonrort wrote on Dec 19^th, 2014 at 11:22am:

John Smith wrote on Dec 19^th, 2014 at 11:15am:

Rocketanski wrote on Dec 19^th, 2014 at 11:11am:

John Smith wrote on Dec 19^th, 2014 at 11:08am:

Baronvonrort wrote on Dec 19^th, 2014 at 10:47am:

The terrorist had hostages post videos online saying it was an attack by the Islamic state

John Smith wrote on Dec 19^th, 2014 at 9:22am:

he was a psycho who tried to gain some sort of credibility/ acceptability by using his religion

What rubbish!

really? what terrorist groupp was he a member off?

If you listen to the videos the hostages were forced to make they say this was an attack by the Islamic state ...

The last I heard, no terrorist group had claimed him as one of theirs.

Has that changed?

Doesn't matter. You don't have to be in a group to be a terrorist.

So you admit that was not affiliated with any organised terrorist group (or any disorganised one, for that matter)?

Don't know and it doesn't matter. You don't know either. Anyway Timothy McVeigh was a terrorist he did it alone.

So what makes this dead criminal a terrorist?

Well?

He was a crazy criminal: nobody is denying that.

Surely though, you don't think all criminals are terrorists.

So, what is it that makes you believe he was a terrorist, as opposed to an attention seeking, violent, lunatic criminal?

ISIS have been calling for muslims around the world to do terrorist acts for propaganda purposes. It happened recently in Canada. That's why he flew the jihad flag and requested an ISIS one. Monis had nothing to lose because he was going in the slammer so he thought what the hell I'll do ISIS a favour. The picture of the jihad flag on the window in that café will be up on an ISIS website any day.

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Rocketanski

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Re: Let’s be honest ManHaron Monis was an IS terrorist
Reply #51 - Dec 19^th, 2014 at 12:38pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Dec 19^th, 2014 at 12:29pm:

Datalife wrote on Dec 19^th, 2014 at 12:23pm:

There is no single, universally accepted, definition of terrorism. Terrorism is defined in the Code of Federal Regulations as “the unlawful use of force and violence against persons or property to intimidate or coerce a government, the civilian population, or any segment thereof, in furtherance of political or social objectives” (28 C.F.R. Section 0.85).

http://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/publications/terrorism-2002-2005

This incident happened in Australia.

Let's use an Australian definition, for argument's sake.

"an action or threat of action where the action causes certain defined forms of harm or interference and the action is done or the threat is made with the intention of advancing a political, religious or ideological cause".

Commonwealth of Australia (15 July 2004). "Transnational Terrorism: The Threat to Australia" (PDF). 1.0. Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade. ISBN 1-920959-04-1. Retrieved 12 April 2008.

What was his political, religious or ideological cause?

The religious perspective of this terrorist act would have become more clearer if he was allowed to speak to the PM , the media and granted his ISIS flag.

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Rocketanski

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Re: Let’s be honest ManHaron Monis was an IS terrorist
Reply #52 - Dec 19^th, 2014 at 12:39pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Dec 19^th, 2014 at 12:30pm:

Rocketanski wrote on Dec 19^th, 2014 at 12:26pm:

Datalife wrote on Dec 19^th, 2014 at 12:23pm:

There is no single, universally accepted, definition of terrorism. Terrorism is defined in the Code of Federal Regulations as “the unlawful use of force and violence against persons or property to intimidate or coerce a government, the civilian population, or any segment thereof, in furtherance of political or social objectives” (28 C.F.R. Section 0.85).

http://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/publications/terrorism-2002-2005

It certainly had a political objective.

Which was ... ?

Obviously to promote ISIS. He requested one of their flags.

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greggerypeccary

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Re: Let’s be honest ManHaron Monis was an IS terrorist
Reply #53 - Dec 19^th, 2014 at 12:40pm

Rocketanski wrote on Dec 19^th, 2014 at 12:34pm:

ISIS have been calling for muslims around the world to do terrorist acts for propaganda purposes. It happened recently in Canada. That's why he flew the jihad flag and requested an ISIS one. Monis had nothing to lose because he was going in the slammer so he thought what the hell I'll do ISIS a favour. The picture of the jihad flag on the window in that café will be up on an ISIS website any day.

I'll admit, it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck. However, it's probably a goose in this instance.

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moses

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Re: Let’s be honest ManHaron Monis was an IS terrorist
Reply #54 - Dec 19^th, 2014 at 12:47pm

Hot Breath wrote: Quote:

Why are you so doctrinaire?

Surely a religion is what it's believers believe it is?

The overwhelming majority of Muslims believe Islam is the religion of peace and seek only to live quiet, normal lives with their fellows. Just like Christians yet when one Muslim goes crazy, suddenly all Muslims are responsible and their religion is at fault. What happens when one Christian goes crazy? Or one Hindu or one Jew? You lot make excuses, hide your faces and refuse to be consistent. You make every excuse under the book for everybody except Muslims! Hypocrites!

There are rules,regulations, constitutions, guidelines, values, in almost all civilizations, societies, organizations, clubs, orders etc.

These doctrines, rules, regulations, whatever you like to call them, have the final power of resolution in determining who or what represents the conduct of the membership.

A member of parliament who breaks the law may call himself a politician, however the political judiciary will refuse his personal claims.

A policeman may conduct himself contrary to the values, guidelines, regulations of the police force, he may call himself a policeman, however the police regulatory body will refuse his claims.

This principle remains the one true value which holds society together, your eligibility for belonging to an entity is vindicated solely by the rules, regulations, constitutions, guidelines of whatever society, organization, religion you claim to belong to.

A personal opinion is secondary.

I believe it is fair to let the doctrine of Christianity be the judge of who or what a Christian is. Personal opinions are just that personal opinions, they are not the rules and regulations set down by Christian doctrine.

I also believe it is fair to let the doctrine of islam decide who or what is a true muslim, what atrocities are advocated by islamic doctrine. ( you on the other hand are always trying to hide from islamic doctrine).

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Dnarever Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 59064 Here Gender:	Re: Let’s be honest ManHaron Monis was an IS terrorist Reply #55 - Dec 19^th, 2014 at 12:50pm http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/dec/16/sydney-siege-dont-call-man-... Sydney siege: don't call Man Haron Monis a 'terrorist' - it only helps Isis Worth a read.
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greggerypeccary

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Re: Let’s be honest ManHaron Monis was an IS terrorist
Reply #56 - Dec 19^th, 2014 at 12:53pm

Dnarever wrote on Dec 19^th, 2014 at 12:50pm:

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/dec/16/sydney-siege-dont-call-man-...

Sydney siege: don't call Man Haron Monis a 'terrorist' - it only helps Isis

Worth a read.

Indeed.

Moreover, I wish they'd remove his picture from all news sites.

Stop promoting this criminal.

Focus on the victims, if you really must drag out the story, but don't mention this criminal's name and don't show his picture.

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Sprintcyclist

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Re: Let’s be honest ManHaron Monis was an IS terrorist
Reply #57 - Dec 19^th, 2014 at 12:55pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Dec 19^th, 2014 at 12:29pm:

[quote author=Datalife link=1418913241/43#43 date=1418955790]There is no single, universally accepted, definition of terrorism. Terrorism is defined in the Code of Federal Regulations as “the unlawful use of force and violence against persons or property to intimidate or coerce a government, the civilian population, or any segment thereof, in furtherance of political or social objectives” (28 C.F.R. Section 0.85).

http://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/publications/terrorism-2002-2005

This incident happened in Australia.

Let's use an Australian definition, for argument's sake.

"an action or threat of action where the action causes certain defined forms of harm or interference and the action is done or the threat is made with the intention of advancing a political, religious or ideological cause".

Commonwealth of Australia (15 July 2004). "Transnational Terrorism: The Threat to Australia" (PDF). 1.0. Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade. ISBN 1-920959-04-1. Retrieved 12 April 2008.

What was his political, religious or ideological cause?[/quote]

What was his political, religious or ideological cause?

islam

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Sprintcyclist

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Re: Let’s be honest ManHaron Monis was an IS terrorist
Reply #58 - Dec 19^th, 2014 at 12:59pm

moses wrote on Dec 19^th, 2014 at 12:47pm:

Hot Breath wrote: Quote:

Why are you so doctrinaire?

Surely a religion is what it's believers believe it is?

The overwhelming majority of Muslims believe Islam is the religion of peace and seek only to live quiet, normal lives with their fellows. Just like Christians yet when one Muslim goes crazy, suddenly all Muslims are responsible and their religion is at fault. What happens when one Christian goes crazy? Or one Hindu or one Jew? You lot make excuses, hide your faces and refuse to be consistent. You make every excuse under the book for everybody except Muslims! Hypocrites!

There are rules,regulations, constitutions, guidelines, values, in almost all civilizations, societies, organizations, clubs, orders etc.

These doctrines, rules, regulations, whatever you like to call them, have the final power of resolution in determining who or what represents the conduct of the membership.

A member of parliament who breaks the law may call himself a politician, however the political judiciary will refuse his personal claims.

A policeman may conduct himself contrary to the values, guidelines, regulations of the police force, he may call himself a policeman, however the police regulatory body will refuse his claims.

This principle remains the one true value which holds society together, your eligibility for belonging to an entity is vindicated solely by the rules, regulations, constitutions, guidelines of whatever society, organization, religion you claim to belong to.

A personal opinion is secondary.

I believe it is fair to let the doctrine of Christianity be the judge of who or what a Christian is. Personal opinions are just that personal opinions, they are not the rules and regulations set down by Christian doctrine.

I also believe it is fair to let the doctrine of islam decide who or what is a true muslim, what atrocities are advocated by islamic doctrine. ( you on the other hand are always trying to hide from islamic doctrine).

Quote:

...........when one Muslim goes crazy, suddenly all Muslims are responsible and their religion is at fault.....

hb - he was the most recent in a long lime of murderous muslims.
the have armies who murder children.
moh was a murderer
the koran says to murder.

I fail to see how you refuse these facts

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greggerypeccary

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Re: Let’s be honest ManHaron Monis was an IS terrorist
Reply #59 - Dec 19^th, 2014 at 1:00pm

Sprintcyclist wrote on Dec 19^th, 2014 at 12:55pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Dec 19^th, 2014 at 12:29pm:

[quote author=Datalife link=1418913241/43#43 date=1418955790]There is no single, universally accepted, definition of terrorism. Terrorism is defined in the Code of Federal Regulations as “the unlawful use of force and violence against persons or property to intimidate or coerce a government, the civilian population, or any segment thereof, in furtherance of political or social objectives” (28 C.F.R. Section 0.85).

http://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/publications/terrorism-2002-2005

This incident happened in Australia.

Let's use an Australian definition, for argument's sake.

"an action or threat of action where the action causes certain defined forms of harm or interference and the action is done or the threat is made with the intention of advancing a political, religious or ideological cause".

Commonwealth of Australia (15 July 2004). "Transnational Terrorism: The Threat to Australia" (PDF). 1.0. Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade. ISBN 1-920959-04-1. Retrieved 12 April 2008.

What was his political, religious or ideological cause?[/quote]

What was his political, religious or ideological cause?

islam

And how was he advancing that cause?

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