Australian Politics Forum - How representative is ISIS of maintream muslims?

polite_gandalf

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How representative is ISIS of maintream muslims?
Dec 28^th, 2014 at 8:20am

I was somewhat surprised FD seemed to be taken-aback by what I would have thought was quite an obvious point - namely that he, along with most islam critics here, believe that ISIS accurately reflects the beliefs and attitudes of mainstream muslims:

freediver wrote on Dec 24^th, 2014 at 11:24am:

polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 24^th, 2014 at 10:37am:

Datalife wrote on Dec 24^th, 2014 at 10:24am:

Has anyone ever said ISIS is representative of all muslims?

Clearly your not too familiar with FD or Baron's posts.

Ask FD, I'm sure he'll be happy to give you a rambling explanation for how all muslims are secretly ISIS at heart, and that all the "nice" law-abiding things we do are merely a means to an end (the end of course to be head-hacking, rapist ISIS prodigy).

Baron will argue that any muslim that is not like ISIS is not a real muslim - in the form of inane rhetorical questions.

There are many things I can say without saying them. Just ask Gandalf. Fortunately we have Brian to constantly correct these unsaid things. It goes without saying.

FD seems to take offense because I didn't specifically ask him what those views are. Even after over two years of quoting Abu to a) demonstrate muslim's true desire for a head-hacking state b) their innate deceitfulness in wanting to implement this through sleight of hand - all the while going to great pains to emphasise how representative Abu is of mainstream muslims.

Not to mention more generally, the constant smearing of mainstream muslims as:

- Being compelled to be the brutal rapist, murdering warlord their sinnister prophet was,
- "wanting to chip away at our freedoms at every opportunity" (and we can all guess for what ultimate purpose),
- the sinnister taqqiya of all the mainstream leaders,
- any and every financial irregularities by mainstream islamic institutions are without question
always about financing terrorism,
- constantly bringing up Malaysian muslims who support stoning and executing apostates.

But of course I'd hate to put words in your mouth FD, so this is your chance to explain to us in your own words, if you will.

Is it accurate to say that you believe that mainstream muslims are secretly ISIS at heart, and that all the "nice" law-abiding things we do are merely a means to an end?

and as an addendum to that:

is it also accurate to say that you believe that mainstream muslims are not the brutal head hackers that ISIS are only because they are too gutless, squeamish or more tactful - not that ISIS ideology and and actions doesn't reflect the true beliefs of mainstream muslims?

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« Last Edit: Dec 28^th, 2014 at 8:27am by polite_gandalf »

A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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freediver Gold Member Online www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49233 At my desk.	Re: How representative is ISIS of maintream muslims? Reply #1 - Dec 28^th, 2014 at 8:53am No. But you have my interest now. What are ISIS's beliefs and how do they differ from mainstream Islam? Also, has your stance on ISIS softened lately? Are they victims of anti-Islamic propaganda?
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Redmond Neck

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Re: How representative is ISIS of maintream muslims?
Reply #2 - Dec 28^th, 2014 at 9:03am

freediver wrote on Dec 28^th, 2014 at 8:53am:

No. But you have my interest now. What are ISIS's beliefs and how do they differ from mainstream Islam?

Actually I dont usually get involved in the Muslim topics but I also cant come to grips with what ISIS followers believe.

How do they claim to be good Muslims creating an Islamic State and behave like murders, rapists and the like?

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ALL AUSTRALIA IS FOR ALL AUSTRALIANS!

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wally1

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Re: How representative is ISIS of maintream muslims?
Reply #3 - Dec 28^th, 2014 at 9:10am

polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 28^th, 2014 at 8:20am:

I was somewhat surprised FD seemed to be taken-aback by what I would have thought was quite an obvious point - namely that he, along with most islam critics here, believe that ISIS accurately reflects the beliefs and attitudes of mainstream muslims:

freediver wrote on Dec 24^th, 2014 at 11:24am:

polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 24^th, 2014 at 10:37am:

Datalife wrote on Dec 24^th, 2014 at 10:24am:

Has anyone ever said ISIS is representative of all muslims?

Clearly your not too familiar with FD or Baron's posts.

Ask FD, I'm sure he'll be happy to give you a rambling explanation for how all muslims are secretly ISIS at heart, and that all the "nice" law-abiding things we do are merely a means to an end (the end of course to be head-hacking, rapist ISIS prodigy).

Baron will argue that any muslim that is not like ISIS is not a real muslim - in the form of inane rhetorical questions.

There are many things I can say without saying them. Just ask Gandalf. Fortunately we have Brian to constantly correct these unsaid things. It goes without saying.

FD seems to take offense because I didn't specifically ask him what those views are. Even after over two years of quoting Abu to a) demonstrate muslim's true desire for a head-hacking state b) their innate deceitfulness in wanting to implement this through sleight of hand - all the while going to great pains to emphasise how representative Abu is of mainstream muslims.

Not to mention more generally, the constant smearing of mainstream muslims as:

- Being compelled to be the brutal rapist, murdering warlord their sinnister prophet was,
- "wanting to chip away at our freedoms at every opportunity" (and we can all guess for what ultimate purpose),
- the sinnister taqqiya of all the mainstream leaders,
- any and every financial irregularities by mainstream islamic institutions are without question
always about financing terrorism,
- constantly bringing up Malaysian muslims who support stoning and executing apostates.

But of course I'd hate to put words in your mouth FD, so this is your chance to explain to us in your own words, if you will.

Is it accurate to say that you believe that mainstream muslims are secretly ISIS at heart, and that all the "nice" law-abiding things we do are merely a means to an end?

and as an addendum to that:

is it also accurate to say that you believe that mainstream muslims are not the brutal head hackers that ISIS are only because they are too gutless, squeamish or more tactful - not that ISIS ideology and and actions doesn't reflect the true beliefs of mainstream muslims?

To make it easy gandalf, every muslim in the world is ISIS, even that little old lady in the nursing home, the sick muslims in hospital, all deaf and blind muslims, Little muslim kids even the unborn child in a muslim ladies abdomen support ISIS.Honest

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Rocketanski

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Re: How representative is ISIS of maintream muslims?
Reply #4 - Dec 28^th, 2014 at 9:19am

wally1 wrote on Dec 28^th, 2014 at 9:10am:

polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 28^th, 2014 at 8:20am:

I was somewhat surprised FD seemed to be taken-aback by what I would have thought was quite an obvious point - namely that he, along with most islam critics here, believe that ISIS accurately reflects the beliefs and attitudes of mainstream muslims:

freediver wrote on Dec 24^th, 2014 at 11:24am:

polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 24^th, 2014 at 10:37am:

Datalife wrote on Dec 24^th, 2014 at 10:24am:

Has anyone ever said ISIS is representative of all muslims?

Clearly your not too familiar with FD or Baron's posts.

Ask FD, I'm sure he'll be happy to give you a rambling explanation for how all muslims are secretly ISIS at heart, and that all the "nice" law-abiding things we do are merely a means to an end (the end of course to be head-hacking, rapist ISIS prodigy).

Baron will argue that any muslim that is not like ISIS is not a real muslim - in the form of inane rhetorical questions.

There are many things I can say without saying them. Just ask Gandalf. Fortunately we have Brian to constantly correct these unsaid things. It goes without saying.

FD seems to take offense because I didn't specifically ask him what those views are. Even after over two years of quoting Abu to a) demonstrate muslim's true desire for a head-hacking state b) their innate deceitfulness in wanting to implement this through sleight of hand - all the while going to great pains to emphasise how representative Abu is of mainstream muslims.

Not to mention more generally, the constant smearing of mainstream muslims as:

- Being compelled to be the brutal rapist, murdering warlord their sinnister prophet was,
- "wanting to chip away at our freedoms at every opportunity" (and we can all guess for what ultimate purpose),
- the sinnister taqqiya of all the mainstream leaders,
- any and every financial irregularities by mainstream islamic institutions are without question
always about financing terrorism,
- constantly bringing up Malaysian muslims who support stoning and executing apostates.

But of course I'd hate to put words in your mouth FD, so this is your chance to explain to us in your own words, if you will.

Is it accurate to say that you believe that mainstream muslims are secretly ISIS at heart, and that all the "nice" law-abiding things we do are merely a means to an end?

and as an addendum to that:

is it also accurate to say that you believe that mainstream muslims are not the brutal head hackers that ISIS are only because they are too gutless, squeamish or more tactful - not that ISIS ideology and and actions doesn't reflect the true beliefs of mainstream muslims?

To make it easy gandalf, every muslim in the world is ISIS, even that little old lady in the nursing home, the sick muslims in hospital, all deaf and blind muslims, Little muslim kids even the unborn child in a muslim ladies abdomen support ISIS.Honest

Hey Wally, how many average muslim people out there would watch ISIS on the news and think "well done"? There hasn't been any anti ISIS protests yet and we all know how much muslims love a good street protest.

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polite_gandalf

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Re: How representative is ISIS of maintream muslims?
Reply #5 - Dec 28^th, 2014 at 10:31am

freediver wrote on Dec 28^th, 2014 at 8:53am:

No. But you have my interest now. What are ISIS's beliefs and how do they differ from mainstream Islam?

Also, has your stance on ISIS softened lately? Are they victims of anti-Islamic propaganda?

No - but actually yes they are? I think thats where you are getting at.

I don't know what ISIS beliefs are - but they do seem to like a lot of raping and head hacking.

Are you now saying that mainstream muslims don't really approve of raping and head hacking? Isn't ISIS merely carrying out the orders of their sinister prophet?

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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Baronvonrort

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Re: How representative is ISIS of maintream muslims?
Reply #6 - Dec 28^th, 2014 at 10:58am

polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 28^th, 2014 at 10:31am:

I don't know what ISIS beliefs are - but they do seem to like a lot of raping and head hacking.

The Islamic state are representing Islam,Muhammad did a bit of raping and head hacking they are doing as the Quran says in following the example of your prophet.

The will be no redaction of the Quran anytime soon so their actions will continue to be justified by the Quran and sunnah.

The Islamic state represents Islam, only the apologists would argue otherwise

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Leftists and the Ayatollahs have a lot in common when it comes to criticism of Islam, they don't tolerate it.

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Karnal Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 96218 Gender:	Re: How representative is ISIS of maintream muslims? Reply #7 - Dec 28^th, 2014 at 11:10am freediver wrote on Dec 28^th, 2014 at 8:53am: No. But you have my interest now. What are ISIS's beliefs and how do they differ from mainstream Islam? Yes, G, you Google taqiyya and get back to FD. We expect a full report on the beliefs of ISIL and Malaysian Muslims, thank you.
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Soren

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Re: How representative is ISIS of maintream muslims?
Reply #8 - Dec 28^th, 2014 at 11:18am

polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 28^th, 2014 at 8:20am:

I was somewhat surprised FD seemed to be taken-aback by what I would have thought was quite an obvious point - namely that he, along with most islam critics here, believe that ISIS accurately reflects the beliefs and attitudes of mainstream muslims

I think it would be more accurate to say that "namely that he, along with most Islam critics here, believe that ISIS accurately reflects the beliefs and attitudes of the Koran and the hadiths'. After all, they are called fundamentalist exactly because they fanatically adhere to the texts and the historical precedent and do allow some Enlightenment-influenced distortion of the tradition.

You, Karnal, Brain are constantly switching to 'mainstream Muslims" when Koran- and hadith-based Islam is criticised. But most people have no problem with Muslims who do not believe in Islam. I certainly don't. The problem is Islamic ideology and people who believe it and follow it, not the people who do not believe it and therefore do not follow it. Alas, sharia, dhimmitude, differentiation in human dignity between men and women, jihad, opposition to a variety of freedoms, especially free expression and enquiry, halal-compliance - these are Islamic tenets believing Muslims claim their own. These are mainstream Muslim ideas and values.

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« Last Edit: Dec 28^th, 2014 at 11:28am by Soren »

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brumbie

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Re: How representative is ISIS of maintream muslims?
Reply #9 - Dec 28^th, 2014 at 11:41am

Mainstream or not...they are a bunch of hypocrites:

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/27/world/middleeast/syria-isis-recruits-teenagers...

He soon found himself in Iraq, but he quickly had misgivings and wanted to escape. His best chance, he decided, was a risky deception: volunteer to be a suicide bomber so he could surrender to security forces.

Back home he saw the group inflict severe punishments on men who were caught smoking cigarettes, yet in the camp, he said, he saw fighters smoking. He said he saw men having sex with other men behind the tents in the desert night. And, he said, he was increasingly put off by “the way they are killing innocent people.”

Or are they?..perhaps that is the norm? Huh

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Soren Gold Member Offline Posts: 25654 Gender:	Re: How representative is ISIS of maintream muslims? Reply #10 - Dec 28^th, 2014 at 1:10pm Here's my question: What DO mainstream Muslims share with ISIL, Al Qaida, Al Nusra, Hamas, Hezb'allah, et al? Can't be nothing.
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Brian Ross

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Re: How representative is ISIS of maintream muslims?
Reply #11 - Dec 28^th, 2014 at 1:39pm

Redmond Neck wrote on Dec 28^th, 2014 at 9:03am:

freediver wrote on Dec 28^th, 2014 at 8:53am:

No. But you have my interest now. What are ISIS's beliefs and how do they differ from mainstream Islam?

Actually I dont usually get involved in the Muslim topics but I also cant come to grips with what ISIS followers believe.

How do they claim to be good Muslims creating an Islamic State and behave like murders, rapists and the like?

You could ask that of Christians as well. Remember for nearly two millennium, their "religion of peace" was used to justify the most horrendous atrocities, invariably against non-believers or schismatics. Be it Bobby's favourite Inquisition (cue, Bobby with his stock youtube video) or the Conquistadores in the New World or the Holy Roman Empire in the German Principalities to the Kaiser's exhortation that German troops on the way to put down the Boxer Rebellion in China should act, "like Huns" or the Roman Catholic Church condoning the Holocaust or the Rwandan Genocide, Christians have done more than enough of the horrendous acts in the world.

The reality is that once a religious group declares themselves exclusive of all others becoming the "chosen ones", doing in their eyes, "God's works," it becomes easier to justify what they do, to non-believers through what their various holy works states about what the fates of non-believers should be. IS is no different, despite what the Islamophobes may claim. It's just a bunch of murderous thugs who have decided that the normal social restraints on their behaviour no longer applies to them, because they are doing to the "other", "God's will". Roll Eyes

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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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Soren

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Re: How representative is ISIS of maintream muslims?
Reply #12 - Dec 28^th, 2014 at 5:12pm

Brian Ross wrote on Dec 28^th, 2014 at 1:39pm:

Redmond Neck wrote on Dec 28^th, 2014 at 9:03am:

freediver wrote on Dec 28^th, 2014 at 8:53am:

No. But you have my interest now. What are ISIS's beliefs and how do they differ from mainstream Islam?

Actually I dont usually get involved in the Muslim topics but I also cant come to grips with what ISIS followers believe.

How do they claim to be good Muslims creating an Islamic State and behave like murders, rapists and the like?

You could ask that of Christians as well. Remember for nearly two millennium, their "religion of peace" was used to justify the most horrendous atrocities, invariably against non-believers or schismatics. Be it Bobby's favourite Inquisition (cue, Bobby with his stock youtube video) or the Conquistadores in the New World or the Holy Roman Empire in the German Principalities to the Kaiser's exhortation that German troops on the way to put down the Boxer Rebellion in China should act, "like Huns" or the Roman Catholic Church condoning the Holocaust or the Rwandan Genocide, Christians have done more than enough of the horrendous acts in the world.

The reality is that once a religious group declares themselves exclusive of all others becoming the "chosen ones", doing in their eyes, "God's works," it becomes easier to justify what they do, to non-believers through what their various holy works states about what the fates of non-believers should be. IS is no different, despite what the Islamophobes may claim. It's just a bunch of murderous thugs who have decided that the normal social restraints on their behaviour no longer applies to them, because they are doing to the "other", "God's will". Roll Eyes

You put all sorts of unrelated and disparate things together in order to create the impression that there is a point that you are making (and to preen about your faux learning) when in fact all you are doing is muddied the waters by introducing all sorts of stupid tangential irrelevancies and demonstrated the chaos reigning in your head.

Your stupidity in motion, as examplified above, is to say that all sorts of violent things happened in history, others have done other things therefore to ask questions today about the actual dissonance between 'Religion of Peace' rhetoric and Islamic thuggery and violence is unacceptable hate. Islam get a free pas because there has been history. Really stupid and spineless, Brain.

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Brian Ross

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Re: How representative is ISIS of maintream muslims?
Reply #13 - Dec 28^th, 2014 at 6:21pm

Soren wrote on Dec 28^th, 2014 at 5:12pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Dec 28^th, 2014 at 1:39pm:

Redmond Neck wrote on Dec 28^th, 2014 at 9:03am:

freediver wrote on Dec 28^th, 2014 at 8:53am:

No. But you have my interest now. What are ISIS's beliefs and how do they differ from mainstream Islam?

Actually I dont usually get involved in the Muslim topics but I also cant come to grips with what ISIS followers believe.

How do they claim to be good Muslims creating an Islamic State and behave like murders, rapists and the like?

You could ask that of Christians as well. Remember for nearly two millennium, their "religion of peace" was used to justify the most horrendous atrocities, invariably against non-believers or schismatics. Be it Bobby's favourite Inquisition (cue, Bobby with his stock youtube video) or the Conquistadores in the New World or the Holy Roman Empire in the German Principalities to the Kaiser's exhortation that German troops on the way to put down the Boxer Rebellion in China should act, "like Huns" or the Roman Catholic Church condoning the Holocaust or the Rwandan Genocide, Christians have done more than enough of the horrendous acts in the world.

The reality is that once a religious group declares themselves exclusive of all others becoming the "chosen ones", doing in their eyes, "God's works," it becomes easier to justify what they do, to non-believers through what their various holy works states about what the fates of non-believers should be. IS is no different, despite what the Islamophobes may claim. It's just a bunch of murderous thugs who have decided that the normal social restraints on their behaviour no longer applies to them, because they are doing to the "other", "God's will". Roll Eyes

You put all sorts of unrelated and disparate things together in order to create the impression that there is a point that you are making (and to preen about your faux learning) when in fact all you are doing is muddied the waters by introducing all sorts of stupid tangential irrelevancies and demonstrated the chaos reigning in your head.

Your stupidity in motion, as examplified above, is to say that all sorts of violent things happened in history, others have done other things therefore to ask questions today about the actual dissonance between 'Religion of Peace' rhetoric and Islamic thuggery and violence is unacceptable hate. Islam get a free pas because there has been history. Really stupid and spineless, Brain.

I am not asking for a "free pass for Islam", Soren. As usual, your Islamophobia blinds you to any alternative explanation to this phenomena other than the sort of simplistic bigotry that you and your fellow Islamophobes engage in.

I am attempting provide an answer to Redneck's question and drawing upon a simile which he may well be more familiar with, that of Christianity's own violent and atrocity filled history going back over the last two millennia. For a religion that prides itself on it's happy-clappy, lovey-dovey, forgiveness and love for all, it and it's followers spent an awful lot of time and effort slaughtering anybody who they felt deserved it because they worshipped their god slightly differently or perhaps even worshipped other gods.

You, OTOH just prefer your black-and-white answers. Perhaps it makes it easier for you to see Muslims as non-humans while you cheer on their slaughter (I suspect you're too much a coward to ever get your hands bloody, personally). Roll Eyes

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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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Soren

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Re: How representative is ISIS of maintream muslims?
Reply #14 - Dec 28^th, 2014 at 7:01pm

Islam is persecuting others. Now. Why is it doing this if it a religion of peace? Why is it doing it now, plotting against Western countries as well as other Muslim countries, and especially Christians and other minorities in Muslim countries.

If you want to talk about the Thirty Year War, let's. But not INSTEAD of talking about what Islam is doing here, now and across the globe.

The Boxer Rebellion or the Irish Troubles or whatever other irrelevancy you want to throw in the mix are not excuses for Islam and Muslim behaviour and doctrines now.

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