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A lesson in bigotry (Read 2254 times)
Brian Ross
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A lesson in bigotry
Dec 28th, 2014 at 5:58pm
 
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"Love your neighbor as yourself, and your country more than yourself," wrote Thomas Jefferson the year before his death. Who did he include among his neighbors in the blueprint for the nation he loved so much?

Jefferson implicitly included Muslims in his patriotic rendering of the Golden Rule. Many may find this idea startling today, but explicit proof for it exists.

In 1776, Jefferson inscribed these pivotal words among his private notes: "(N)either Pagan nor Mahometan (Muslim) nor Jew ought to be excluded from the civil rights of the commonwealth because of his religion." They were written a few months after he composed the Declaration of Independence, when he returned to Virginia to draft new laws for his state.

Jefferson borrowed the precedent of "civil rights" for Muslims from the English philosopher John Locke's 1689 tract, "A Letter Concerning Toleration." Locke's ideas about the toleration of Muslims and Jews provoked attacks: One critic condemned him for having "the faith of a Turk." His enemies also charged, rightly, that he owned a copy of the Quran, which they termed "the Mahometan bible."

For centuries, it had been common in Europe for one Christian to defame another with references to Islam, a practice that crossed the Atlantic. Jefferson, for his expansive views of religious liberty and political equality, would be attacked repeatedly as an "infidel," a word that in his time meant not just an "unbeliever," but a Muslim.

And like Locke, Jefferson owned a Quran.
[...]

[Source]

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose  Roll Eyes
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Brian Ross
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Re: A lesson in bigotry
Reply #1 - Dec 28th, 2014 at 5:59pm
 
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Swiss Antagonist of Minarets Is Now Muslim

RENOWNED Swiss politician Daniel Streich, who previously campaigned against Swiss minarets, embraced Islam a few years ago.

A member of the Swiss People’s Party (SVP) and a well-known politician, Daniel Streich was the first man who had launched a drive for imposition of ban on mosques minarets, and to lock the mosques in Switzerland. The proclamation of Streich’s conversion to Islam created a furor in Swiss politics, and caused a tremor for those who supported ban on construction of mosques minarets.

Streich had propagated his anti-Islamic movement far and wide in the country, sowed seeds of indignation and scorn for Islam among the people, and paved the way for public opinion against pulpits and minarets of mosques.

But now Streich has become a servant of Islam. His anti-Islam thoughts finally brought him so close to this religion that he embraced it.

[Source]
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Adamant
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Re: A lesson in bigotry
Reply #2 - Dec 28th, 2014 at 6:12pm
 
Yes, Yes Brian we all know you are the biggest biggot you hate all religions bar islam.

However running away is not an option so answer the question...



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Reply #83 - Today at 5:29pm     Brian Ross wrote Today at 4:09pm:

No proof, Adam/Matty/Anti?   How unsurprising.   

You keep your faith.  I'll look forward to proof.    Run along back to your Bible and your priests and your churches.   I'll respect your belief but please don't try and tell me that it constitutes anything else.    

What proof Brian, I need not prove anything, It's you that has to do that Brian. You made the claim.

Prove your statment valid, or run of to your syndicate of apologists with your tail between your legs. 
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Re: A lesson in bigotry
Reply #3 - Dec 28th, 2014 at 6:29pm
 
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Brian Ross
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Re: A lesson in bigotry
Reply #4 - Dec 28th, 2014 at 6:31pm
 
Adamant wrote on Dec 28th, 2014 at 6:12pm:
Yes, Yes Brian we all know you are the biggest biggot you hate all religions bar islam.


Actually, I hate no religion, Matty/Adam/Anti.

I must admit though, that I am start to form a dislike for the dogmatic Christian zealots which I seem to encounter here.  Not necessarily because they are Christians but rather they seem to have forgotten what is is to actually be a believer in Christ's message.    Roll Eyes

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Soren
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Re: A lesson in bigotry
Reply #5 - Dec 28th, 2014 at 6:53pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Dec 28th, 2014 at 5:58pm:
Quote:
"Love your neighbor as yourself, and your country more than yourself," wrote Thomas Jefferson the year before his death. Who did he include among his neighbors in the blueprint for the nation he loved so much?

Jefferson implicitly included Muslims in his patriotic rendering of the Golden Rule. Many may find this idea startling today, but explicit proof for it exists.

In 1776, Jefferson inscribed these pivotal words among his private notes: "(N)either Pagan nor Mahometan (Muslim) nor Jew ought to be excluded from the civil rights of the commonwealth because of his religion." They were written a few months after he composed the Declaration of Independence, when he returned to Virginia to draft new laws for his state.

Jefferson borrowed the precedent of "civil rights" for Muslims from the English philosopher John Locke's 1689 tract, "A Letter Concerning Toleration." Locke's ideas about the toleration of Muslims and Jews provoked attacks: One critic condemned him for having "the faith of a Turk." His enemies also charged, rightly, that he owned a copy of the Quran, which they termed "the Mahometan bible."

For centuries, it had been common in Europe for one Christian to defame another with references to Islam, a practice that crossed the Atlantic. Jefferson, for his expansive views of religious liberty and political equality, would be attacked repeatedly as an "infidel," a word that in his time meant not just an "unbeliever," but a Muslim.

And like Locke, Jefferson owned a Quran.
[...]

[Source]





How utterly the opposite of what Islam stands for.
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Brian Ross
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Re: A lesson in bigotry
Reply #6 - Dec 28th, 2014 at 7:17pm
 
Soren wrote on Dec 28th, 2014 at 6:53pm:
How utterly the opposite of what Islam stands for.


Not according to the Muslims, I know, Soren.

Anyway, it isn't what Islam stands for which was important in Jefferson's case.  It was what the United States was intended to stand for.   Sometimes people do things for their own reasons, so satisfy their own beliefs, not because of what others do.   A lesson that you do not appear to have learnt.  Did you miss it out of your ethics lessons?   Roll Eyes
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Re: A lesson in bigotry
Reply #7 - Dec 28th, 2014 at 7:33pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Dec 28th, 2014 at 6:31pm:
Adamant wrote on Dec 28th, 2014 at 6:12pm:
Yes, Yes Brian we all know you are the biggest biggot you hate all religions bar islam.


Actually, I hate no religion, Matty/Adam/Anti.

I must admit though, that I am start to form a dislike for the dogmatic Christian zealots which I seem to encounter here.  Not necessarily because they are Christians but rather they seem to have forgotten what is is to actually be a believer in Christ's message.    Roll Eyes


Christians are the ones who provide the best, most  free, most educated societies.
Christians are the ones who fight for and protect you .

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Re: A lesson in bigotry
Reply #8 - Dec 28th, 2014 at 7:34pm
 
Bwian, the members of ISIL would pass you around like currency.  Hilarious!
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Re: A lesson in bigotry
Reply #9 - Dec 28th, 2014 at 8:01pm
 
Sprintcyclist wrote on Dec 28th, 2014 at 7:33pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Dec 28th, 2014 at 6:31pm:
Adamant wrote on Dec 28th, 2014 at 6:12pm:
Yes, Yes Brian we all know you are the biggest biggot you hate all religions bar islam.


Actually, I hate no religion, Matty/Adam/Anti.

I must admit though, that I am start to form a dislike for the dogmatic Christian zealots which I seem to encounter here.  Not necessarily because they are Christians but rather they seem to have forgotten what is is to actually be a believer in Christ's message.    Roll Eyes


Christians are the ones who provide the best, most  free, most educated societies.
Christians are the ones who fight for and protect you .



protect us from what?

WMD?`
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Re: A lesson in bigotry
Reply #10 - Dec 28th, 2014 at 8:02pm
 
Rocketanski wrote on Dec 28th, 2014 at 7:34pm:
Bwian, the members of ISIL would pass you around like currency.  Hilarious!


go away and talk to isis members brian.
tell them how you dislike us Christians.

you make me sick
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Lionel Edriess
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Re: A lesson in bigotry
Reply #11 - Dec 28th, 2014 at 8:27pm
 
Now it's interesting to note that Brian has not uttered, or directed, the accusation of bigotry. He has merely offered a lesson.

A lesson which he has yet to deliver.

It merely resides in his arsenal until some Muggins responds.

Like me!    Cool

OK!

According to http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/bigot?searchDictCode=all

A bigot is someone who disagrees with you.

Given this definition, I now have joined a debating society.

Cool





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Toughen up, Australia!
 
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Brian Ross
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Re: A lesson in bigotry
Reply #12 - Dec 28th, 2014 at 8:34pm
 
Sprintcyclist wrote on Dec 28th, 2014 at 8:02pm:
Rocketanski wrote on Dec 28th, 2014 at 7:34pm:
Bwian, the members of ISIL would pass you around like currency.  Hilarious!


go away and talk to isis members brian.


Can't seem to find any here, Sprint.  When was the last time you challenged some?

Quote:
tell them how you dislike us Christians.


Yes, I do dislike your sort of Christians, Sprint.  You've lost sight completely the message of your messiah.  Remember Colossians 3:11-13, Sprint or have you forgotten them?   Roll Eyes

Quote:
you make me sick


Good.  I hope to continue to, to remind you of your hubris, Sprint.  Proverbs 16:18.   Roll Eyes
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Re: A lesson in bigotry
Reply #13 - Dec 28th, 2014 at 10:55pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Dec 28th, 2014 at 7:17pm:
Soren wrote on Dec 28th, 2014 at 6:53pm:
How utterly the opposite of what Islam stands for.


Not according to the Muslims, I know, Soren.

Anyway, it isn't what Islam stands for which was important in Jefferson's case.  It was what the United States was intended to stand for.   Sometimes people do things for their own reasons, so satisfy their own beliefs, not because of what others do.   A lesson that you do not appear to have learnt.  Did you miss it out of your ethics lessons?   Roll Eyes



There is nothing in Islam about religious freedom, freedom of expression, freedom of enquiry, a plurality of religious practice separate from social engagement - in short, Islam could never produce something like the Federalist Papers, the Declaration of Independence or the American Constitution because its every instinct is opposed to every instinct expressed in those documents.


Submission stands for submission, not enquiry, not freedom, not tolerance. It is called Submission because that is its central idea, its root and branch. Submit to what a semi-literate Arab tells you about god. Don't question it. Submit.

Works for you, Brain, obviously.




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Brian Ross
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Re: A lesson in bigotry
Reply #14 - Dec 28th, 2014 at 11:02pm
 
Soren wrote on Dec 28th, 2014 at 10:55pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Dec 28th, 2014 at 7:17pm:
Soren wrote on Dec 28th, 2014 at 6:53pm:
How utterly the opposite of what Islam stands for.


Not according to the Muslims, I know, Soren.

Anyway, it isn't what Islam stands for which was important in Jefferson's case.  It was what the United States was intended to stand for.   Sometimes people do things for their own reasons, so satisfy their own beliefs, not because of what others do.   A lesson that you do not appear to have learnt.  Did you miss it out of your ethics lessons?   Roll Eyes



There is nothing in Islam about religious freedom, freedom of expression, freedom of enquiry, a plurality of religious practice separate from social engagement - in short, Islam could never produce something like the Federalist Papers, the Declaration of Independence or the American Constitution because its every instinct is opposed to every instinct expressed in those documents.


According to whom, Soren?  You?  The Islamists?  Yet so many Muslims across North Africa and the Middle East have had engaged in revolution and civil war to achieve those very things.  Perhaps they didn't get the message or perhaps they believe there is nothing incompatible between the two?

Quote:
Submission stands for submission, not enquiry, not freedom, not tolerance. It is called Submission because that is its central idea, its root and branch. Submit to what a semi-literate Arab tells you about god. Don't question it. Submit.


Rather like Christianity in that regard, right, Soren?  Don't question what the Church says, just accept it.    Roll Eyes

Quote:
Works for you, Brain, obviously.


Always the ad hominem, Soren.   Just shows you've lost even before you've begun.    Roll Eyes
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