Australian Politics Forum - Some interesting history here: Shia v Sunni

ColdFact

Senior Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 359
Gender: male

Re: Some interesting history here: Shia v Sunni
Reply #60 - Dec 30^th, 2014 at 7:22pm

Lionel Edriess wrote on Dec 30^th, 2014 at 5:59pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 30^th, 2014 at 7:46am:

... Soren's link stated that 48.6% of Australians held "Anti-Muslim sentiment". Your claim was that "The vast majority of Australians for what ever reason do not want Islamic immigration to this country". Would you like me to explain to you the difference between 48.6% and a "vast majority"? ...

Perhaps you'd best ask Mr.Ross. He's the best at explaining why statistics never match public feeling.

He'll also be able to explain the groundswell of anti-Islamic feeling erupting in Europe as merely the collection of racist cants by popular political wannabes. With statistics!

And is also able to explain why racial and religious profiles are not considered important enough to collect when our law-makers are considering new legislation and penalties. This is the result of recent legislation, BTW. It also stymies any attempt to discover who is on the dole, and who is claiming other benefits, on an average profile - which we can't do any more.

Does one have to be a "prophet" to see that the ongoing feudalism between certain families in Sydney is somehow connected to religious beliefs? And the connections to organised crime?

Best we just whistle while looking at the walls, eh?

We'll take all the 'moderate' Muslims the world has to offer. All Islam has to do is offer real 'moderate' Muslims.

Nuffin' to do with Islam, eh?

Shirley, you jest!

Cool

Careful, you're stating to shape-shift and it ain't a pretty sight.

Back to top

Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch.

IP Logged

Soren

Gold Member

Offline

Posts: 25654
Gender: male

Re: Some interesting history here: Shia v Sunni
Reply #61 - Dec 30^th, 2014 at 9:49pm

Karnal wrote on Dec 30^th, 2014 at 4:28pm:

How do you find Orthadox Jews, old boy? Are you a fan of the black attire and all those straps? Wigs for the ladies to cover their hair?

I imagine they take Leviticus rather seriously, no? They even have a Jewsih court in Melbourne.

Shurely shome shibboleth?

Relevance? Why not ask about the saffron robes of Buddhists, or the Sikh turbans?

Because you have bought into the rabid Muslim 'what about the JOOOOOS' psychosis. What Muslims do is all about the JOOOS.

And you, a Paki Bvgger, of course will go with the flow. You have the Muslim psychosis about the Jews, even though you are not a Muslim yourself. You are on the bandwagon, unthinking, clapping and yelling, PB.

Nam, innit. Side witb the f Vckers every time, hoping to get lucky as a PB. Aiming for the biscuit, innit. THe opportunism of the invert.

Carry on.i

Back to top

IP Logged

Soren

Gold Member

Offline

Posts: 25654
Gender: male

Re: Some interesting history here: Shia v Sunni
Reply #62 - Dec 30^th, 2014 at 10:08pm

Karnal wrote on Dec 30^th, 2014 at 10:50am:

Soren wrote on Dec 30^th, 2014 at 10:34am:

Brian Ross wrote on Dec 29^th, 2014 at 1:25am:

Only approximately a third want a cut in Muslim immigration.

While only an indirect measure, it can be considered reasonably representative of Australian attitudes towards Muslims in general.

The overall point is that there is significantly disproportionate negative attitude towards Muslims and Islam. This is an ideological, political antipathy, not a racial one - there is nowhere near the same negative attitude towards Buddhists, the majority of whom are also -non-White.
Furthermore, I'd say 50 years ago the proportion would have been the same as it is towards Buddhists today. In other words Islam's stock is worsening for obvious reasons.

SO what is important and should not be ignored is that a third of Australians oppose an ideology. No other ideology comes anywhere near this level of antipathy. A third of the population is a significant proportion. It is far greater than the proportion that supports the Greens, for example, or thought Gillard a good PM.

Oh, old boy, back in the 1990s a percentage of Australians opposed the chinks coming in. You might remember a certain poetess called Pauline Hanson. You might even recall the remarks of a certain PM called John Howard, who wanted to go softly on Asian immigration.

Once, we opposed your kind coming in, but we came around in the end. We always do.

Your kindness and generousity, you see, has softened us to you people.

And now we see the huge difference between the 'chinks' and the Muslims. First a joke, then a tragedy.
Islam contributes nothing to Western societies, it is not bringing any improvement, even if Muslims (non-observant, mostly) may. The 'chinks' were not bringing an ideology. The practicing, devout Muslims are. It is an avowedly anti-Western ideology.

Back to top

IP Logged

Karnal Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 96194 Gender:	Re: Some interesting history here: Shia v Sunni Reply #63 - Dec 31^st, 2014 at 12:32am What about the Danes? I saw a dirty cheeseater in a frock and a pair of red tights, slapping away like he was churning out a cream stollen. Needless to say, it got all over his old school shoes. Still like Danish, old boy, or have you been assimilated?
Back to top	IP Logged

Brian Ross Gold Member Online Representative of me Posts: 42164	Re: Some interesting history here: Shia v Sunni Reply #64 - Dec 31^st, 2014 at 2:38pm ian wrote on Dec 29^th, 2014 at 11:38am: Thanks Soren, your link works. That survey was done in 2011, the number would be much higher now. Really? You have evidence or like Mr.Pickering you are basing this on prejudice?
Back to top	Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... IP Logged

Brian Ross

Gold Member

Online

Representative of me

Posts: 42164

Re: Some interesting history here: Shia v Sunni
Reply #65 - Dec 31^st, 2014 at 2:40pm

Lord Herbert wrote on Dec 29^th, 2014 at 11:43am:

ColdFact wrote on Dec 29^th, 2014 at 8:50am:

A journalist is supposed to be just that -- not a muck-raking bigot, liar and racist trying to unnecessarily stir up hatred.

Here's what the business commentator for the SMH, Michael Pascoe said about Pickering in 2012.

"Pickering is commonly known as a cartoonist, but he's also an inveterate liar, a bankrupt conman with a seedy history of fleecing the gullible of millions of dollars while not paying his own bills.

"With various failed business ventures and numerous personal relationships of equal standard, for decades he has plied a grubby trade behind sundry stooges and partners, assisted by the odd sharp lawyer and hapless corporate and consumer regulators. He is not a nice man."

http://www.smh.com.au/business/larry-pickering--the-conman-stalking-gillard-2012...

Good article, ColdFact.

Now would you like to address the actual points that were raised and mulled over by Pickering?

Thank you in advance.

Have you thrown out all your Rolf Harris videos and CDs? No?

Content, ColdFact ... content is all we need concern ourself with if we are intelligent adults.

A truth is a truth even if the worst of liars delivers it.

Mr.Pickering's claims have been found wanting, Herbie. He is apparently a conman, a fraudster and a philanderer. Why should we believe anything he says? Roll Eyes

Back to top

Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

IP Logged

Brian Ross

Gold Member

Online

Representative of me

Posts: 42164

Re: Some interesting history here: Shia v Sunni
Reply #66 - Dec 31^st, 2014 at 2:44pm

Sprintcyclist wrote on Dec 29^th, 2014 at 8:52pm:

ian wrote on Dec 28^th, 2014 at 11:47pm:

The vast majority of Australians for what ever reason do not want Islamic immigration to this country, that is indeed a fact. Only a fool would argue otherwise. even asian Australians dont want them, the bias does not run along ethnic lines, no one wants them here.

no country in the world wants islamics aside from other extremist states.

keep them all, ship them off there

Bit hard to do when most are born here and are citizens, Sprint. So, on what basis are you going to "ship them off"? I'd love to see the High Court challenge to any laws which attempted such deportation. The Lawyers would make an absolute fortune! Roll Eyes

Back to top

Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

IP Logged

Brian Ross

Gold Member

Online

Representative of me

Posts: 42164

Re: Some interesting history here: Shia v Sunni
Reply #67 - Dec 31^st, 2014 at 2:45pm

Sprintcyclist wrote on Dec 29^th, 2014 at 11:53pm:

Rocketanski wrote on Dec 29^th, 2014 at 9:09pm:

Not all Muslims are fanatics but it has dawned on people that the bad come with the good. It's too late anyway because muslims are here in large numbers and Islamic terrorism is just something we'll have to deal with.

that's a defeatist attitude.

demolish a mosque for every attack on us.
Going from the largest one first.

deport every family member of the terrorist.

Collective guilt. Exactly how the Israelis handle it. So, Sprint, how well has that worked for them? It's really stopped the Terrorism there, now hasn't it? Roll Eyes

Back to top

Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

IP Logged

Brian Ross

Gold Member

Online

Representative of me

Posts: 42164

Re: Some interesting history here: Shia v Sunni
Reply #68 - Dec 31^st, 2014 at 2:49pm

Soren wrote on Dec 30^th, 2014 at 10:34am:

Brian Ross wrote on Dec 29^th, 2014 at 1:25am:

Only approximately a third want a cut in Muslim immigration.

While only an indirect measure, it can be considered reasonably representative of Australian attitudes towards Muslims in general.

The overall point is that there is significantly disproportionate negative attitude towards Muslims and Islam.

Yes, Soren. Of course, it hasn't helped when we have muckrakers like Mr.Pickering, Herbie and yourself, promoting hatred and intolerance towards innocent people on the basis of Guilt by Association. Roll Eyes

Tell, me, Soren, what do you think of Mr.Pickering's claims about Australian attitudes, in the face of the evidence that I've presented? Do you support his claims like Herbie or will you condemn them like sensible people do for being based on nothing except supposition and prejudice? Roll Eyes

Back to top

Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

IP Logged

Good riddance

Junior Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 79

Re: Some interesting history here: Shia v Sunni
Reply #69 - Dec 31^st, 2014 at 3:17pm

Brian Ross wrote on Dec 31^st, 2014 at 2:49pm:

Soren wrote on Dec 30^th, 2014 at 10:34am:

Brian Ross wrote on Dec 29^th, 2014 at 1:25am:

Only approximately a third want a cut in Muslim immigration.

While only an indirect measure, it can be considered reasonably representative of Australian attitudes towards Muslims in general.

The overall point is that there is significantly disproportionate negative attitude towards Muslims and Islam.

Yes, Soren. Of course, it hasn't helped when we have muckrakers like Mr.Pickering, Herbie and yourself, promoting hatred and intolerance towards innocent people on the basis of Guilt by Association. Roll Eyes

Tell, me, Soren, what do you think of Mr.Pickering's claims about Australian attitudes, in the face of the evidence that I've presented? Do you support his claims like Herbie or will you condemn them like sensible people do for being based on nothing except supposition and prejudice? Roll Eyes

You are a textbook lefty.

*claim to be right
*claim to represent the majority
*claim to hold the view of reason and sense
*claim any other view is bigoted/racist/x-phobic,x-ism,etc
*claim to have already dealt with any questions and objections and that it is now time to accept the lefty view. (and anyone who disagrees is a sock/troll/idiot/paid to post problem maker, etc)

Yep. Textbook lefty.

Back to top

IP Logged

Karnal Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 96194 Gender:	Re: Some interesting history here: Shia v Sunni Reply #70 - Dec 31^st, 2014 at 3:49pm I agree, Matty. We’re moral relitivists, no?
Back to top	IP Logged

Brian Ross

Gold Member

Online

Representative of me

Posts: 42164

Re: Some interesting history here: Shia v Sunni
Reply #71 - Dec 31^st, 2014 at 4:07pm

Lionel Edriess wrote on Dec 30^th, 2014 at 5:59pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 30^th, 2014 at 7:46am:

... Soren's link stated that 48.6% of Australians held "Anti-Muslim sentiment". Your claim was that "The vast majority of Australians for what ever reason do not want Islamic immigration to this country". Would you like me to explain to you the difference between 48.6% and a "vast majority"? ...

Perhaps you'd best ask Mr.Ross. He's the best at explaining why statistics never match public feeling.

He'll also be able to explain the groundswell of anti-Islamic feeling erupting in Europe as merely the collection of racist cants by popular political wannabes. With statistics!

And is also able to explain why racial and religious profiles are not considered important enough to collect when our law-makers are considering new legislation and penalties. This is the result of recent legislation, BTW. It also stymies any attempt to discover who is on the dole, and who is claiming other benefits, on an average profile - which we can't do any more.

Does one have to be a "prophet" to see that the ongoing feudalism between certain families in Sydney is somehow connected to religious beliefs? And the connections to organised crime?

Best we just whistle while looking at the walls, eh?

We'll take all the 'moderate' Muslims the world has to offer. All Islam has to do is offer real 'moderate' Muslims.

Nuffin' to do with Islam, eh?

Shirley, you jest!

Cool

Poor Lionel, I never realised you felt so daunted by my rhetorical powers! I feel flattered to gain such praise, even if in a backhanded way, from you of all people. Grin

I rather suspect that your ideal of a moderate Muslim is a thoroughly Westernised one, indeed so Westernised that hey are Muslim in name only.

One common charge I have laid at the doors of Xenophobes and racists is that they want uniformity, rather than be willing to tolerate diversity and pluralism. They want everybody looking the same, acting the same, dressing the same, walking in lock step to their drum beat because above all else they are offended by the very concept of individuality. Individuality? That's fine, as long as everybody is the same! Roll Eyes

Soren is another in that camp. As long as everybody looks Northern European, is a god-fearing Lutheran and votes Tory, he's happy. Indeed, more than just happy, he's ecstatic! He cannot tolerate Johnny-Foreigner. Roll Eyes

Back to top

Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

IP Logged

Brian Ross

Gold Member

Online

Representative of me

Posts: 42164

Re: Some interesting history here: Shia v Sunni
Reply #72 - Dec 31^st, 2014 at 4:10pm

Good riddance wrote on Dec 31^st, 2014 at 3:17pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Dec 31^st, 2014 at 2:49pm:

Soren wrote on Dec 30^th, 2014 at 10:34am:

Brian Ross wrote on Dec 29^th, 2014 at 1:25am:

Only approximately a third want a cut in Muslim immigration.

While only an indirect measure, it can be considered reasonably representative of Australian attitudes towards Muslims in general.

The overall point is that there is significantly disproportionate negative attitude towards Muslims and Islam.

Yes, Soren. Of course, it hasn't helped when we have muckrakers like Mr.Pickering, Herbie and yourself, promoting hatred and intolerance towards innocent people on the basis of Guilt by Association. Roll Eyes

Tell, me, Soren, what do you think of Mr.Pickering's claims about Australian attitudes, in the face of the evidence that I've presented? Do you support his claims like Herbie or will you condemn them like sensible people do for being based on nothing except supposition and prejudice? Roll Eyes

You are a textbook lefty.

*claim to be right
*claim to represent the majority
*claim to hold the view of reason and sense
*claim any other view is bigoted/racist/x-phobic,x-ism,etc
*claim to have already dealt with any questions and objections and that it is now time to accept the lefty view. (and anyone who disagrees is a sock/troll/idiot/paid to post problem maker, etc)

Yep. Textbook lefty.

Matty/Adam/Anti, actually you're wrong. I haven't claimed to be right. I've shown I am right - I've presented my findings, presented the evidence on which they are based. Mr.Pickering hasn't. No evidence based argument from him or Herbie. Nor it seems you. So, instead you'll attack me. Silly you. Roll Eyes

Back to top

Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

IP Logged

Good riddance

Junior Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 79

Re: Some interesting history here: Shia v Sunni
Reply #73 - Dec 31^st, 2014 at 5:19pm

Brian Ross wrote on Dec 31^st, 2014 at 4:10pm:

Good riddance wrote on Dec 31^st, 2014 at 3:17pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Dec 31^st, 2014 at 2:49pm:

Soren wrote on Dec 30^th, 2014 at 10:34am:

Brian Ross wrote on Dec 29^th, 2014 at 1:25am:

Only approximately a third want a cut in Muslim immigration.

While only an indirect measure, it can be considered reasonably representative of Australian attitudes towards Muslims in general.

The overall point is that there is significantly disproportionate negative attitude towards Muslims and Islam.

Yes, Soren. Of course, it hasn't helped when we have muckrakers like Mr.Pickering, Herbie and yourself, promoting hatred and intolerance towards innocent people on the basis of Guilt by Association. Roll Eyes

Tell, me, Soren, what do you think of Mr.Pickering's claims about Australian attitudes, in the face of the evidence that I've presented? Do you support his claims like Herbie or will you condemn them like sensible people do for being based on nothing except supposition and prejudice? Roll Eyes

You are a textbook lefty.

*claim to be right
*claim to represent the majority
*claim to hold the view of reason and sense
*claim any other view is bigoted/racist/x-phobic,x-ism,etc
*claim to have already dealt with any questions and objections and that it is now time to accept the lefty view. (and anyone who disagrees is a sock/troll/idiot/paid to post problem maker, etc)

Yep. Textbook lefty.

Matty/Adam/Anti, actually you're wrong. I haven't claimed to be right. I've shown I am right - I've presented my findings, presented the evidence on which they are based. Mr.Pickering hasn't. No evidence based argument from him or Herbie. Nor it seems you. So, instead you'll attack me. Silly you. Roll Eyes

You are wrong. The case has been proven. Let me go through the evidence again;

Roll Eyes

See, I have more eyes rolling than you. End of story.

Try harder next time... you foolish ignorant half man Roll Eyes

Back to top

IP Logged

Soren

Gold Member

Offline

Posts: 25654
Gender: male

Re: Some interesting history here: Shia v Sunni
Reply #74 - Dec 31^st, 2014 at 5:25pm

Brian Ross wrote on Dec 31^st, 2014 at 4:07pm:

One common charge I have laid at the doors of Xenophobes and racists is that they want uniformity, rather than be willing to tolerate diversity and pluralism. They want everybody looking the same, acting the same, dressing the same, walking in lock step to their drum beat because above all else they are offended by the very concept of individuality. Individuality? That's fine, as long as everybody is the same! Roll Eyes

Soren is another in that camp. As long as everybody looks Northern European, is a god-fearing Lutheran and votes Tory, he's happy. Indeed, more than just happy, he's ecstatic! He cannot tolerate Johnny-Foreigner. Roll Eyes

Making every country 'diverse' is the surest way to homogenise the whole world. But numpties like Brain would never realise that because they are spouting a mindless ideology.

Brain, you stand for the complete McDonaldisation of the world where every country is exactly as 'diverse' as every other thereby each losing its own unique characteristics. You are more reactionary and imperialist that you would ever imagine.

Back to top

IP Logged