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How does Islam improve the world? (Read 10469 times)

Brian Ross

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Re: How does Islam improve the world?
Reply #75 - Jan 3^rd, 2015 at 6:11pm

Quantum wrote on Jan 3^rd, 2015 at 3:05pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Jan 3^rd, 2015 at 2:41pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Jan 3^rd, 2015 at 1:14pm:

If we look at Afghanistan in the 1960's we can see the effect of Islam on that country.

In the 1960's hijabs were rare and women went to University, when fundamental islam came to town girls were shot in the head for wanting an education.

It's obvious you know buggerall about the history of Afghanistan if you believe that, Baron.

Islam has been in Afghanistan for over a millennium. You appear to believe it's a recent arrival or something. Hijabs, Burqa were common outside the capital Kabul, Baron. Don't let the pictures of a few mini-clad teenagers in the one major city fool you into thinking that Afghanistan had modernised in any meaningful way.

Are you arguing for Islam, or against? Roll Eyes

Neither. I am pointing out that the Baron appears to know little about the modern history of Islam in Afghanistan, Quantum, so that he might be a little better educated in the end.

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What brought about the resurgence of Islam was the Communist revolution in 1978. With its stupid attempt to create a Communist nation in the face of entrenched traditional modes of existence such as with collectivisation and the overturning of traditional power structures, created growing resistance, the Soviets then invaded in 1979 (like the Vietnam War more through a negligent slide into military action than design it seems) the deliberate US decision to use Islam as a unifying force through promotion of fundamentalist Sunni beliefs (the CIA also believed it would be a useful counter to the Sh'ia of Iran), unleashed a demon that the US has never been able to control. Like so much US policy, it's all about short term gain as against any long term thinking of possible consequences.

So don't try to change a society, just leave it how it is because you may end up stuffing it all up.

Nope. In the case of Afghanistan, when you start from a low base, you have to make evolutionary, rather than revolutionary change - bring the people with you, rather than drag them behind, into a new society.

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Sounds like a good argument against multiculturalism... Roll Eyes

Might surprise you but Afghanistan is a multicultural society as well, Quantum. Not a harmonious one like ours but it still consists of multiple different cultures, all under Islam, which like all proselytising religions doesn't care about your culture, just your beliefs.

Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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Baronvonrort

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Re: How does Islam improve the world?
Reply #76 - Jan 3^rd, 2015 at 6:30pm

Brian Ross wrote on Jan 3^rd, 2015 at 6:11pm:

It's obvious you know buggerall about the history of Afghanistan if you believe that, Baron.

It's obvious you know buggerall about anything apart from sticking up for Islam brian.

Cool

Afghanistan and and Iran went backwards from more Islam, both countries showed how rapidly they can be transformed to Islamic rule.

Both of them brought back stoning to death, this is the Islam you are so keen to defend while being critical of Christians who stopped doing it hundreds of years ago.

I bet your forum is quiet these days or you wouldn't be here Cool

Leftists and the Ayatollahs have a lot in common when it comes to criticism of Islam, they don't tolerate it.

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Brian Ross

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Re: How does Islam improve the world?
Reply #77 - Jan 3^rd, 2015 at 8:37pm

Baronvonrort wrote on Jan 3^rd, 2015 at 6:30pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Jan 3^rd, 2015 at 6:11pm:

It's obvious you know buggerall about the history of Afghanistan if you believe that, Baron.

It's obvious you know buggerall about anything apart from sticking up for Islam brian.

Cool

Both were modernising, Baron. Both went backwards to fundamentalist Islam because of foreign - primarily American and British, interference. In both cases, as I pointed out, short-term political gain and ambition was put before long-term thinking over what was best not only for the locals but for the West as well.

Fundamentalist Islam was in both cases already present in those countries, however it's influence was low, until upheaval and strife occurred, when it stepped in and filled the vacuum external interference produced.

« Last Edit: Jan 3^rd, 2015 at 11:31pm by Brian Ross »

Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49340 At my desk.	Re: How does Islam improve the world? Reply #78 - Jan 3^rd, 2015 at 8:56pm Even when countries slide backward towards political Islamism, it is all America's fault. Nothing to do with Islam.
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Karnal

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Re: How does Islam improve the world?
Reply #79 - Jan 3^rd, 2015 at 9:21pm

Karnal wrote on Jan 3^rd, 2015 at 11:05am:

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jan 1^st, 2015 at 11:59pm:

Quote:

...........advocated persecution against people ...

against a death cult that murders innocents according to the instruction of its paedophilic leader.

You underestimate how much I detest islam

How about this one, FD? How do such views add to our social fabric and our commonweal?

And how do they fit within a Christian world view?

There are no right or wrong answers, FD. Christianity can be whatever you want it to be.

You don’t want to answer, FD?

Google: taqiyya.

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Brian Ross

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Re: How does Islam improve the world?
Reply #80 - Jan 3^rd, 2015 at 11:35pm

freediver wrote on Jan 3^rd, 2015 at 8:56pm:

Even when countries slide backward towards political Islamism, it is all America's fault. Nothing to do with Islam.

Invariably the trigger in the last and this century was external interference in the internal affairs of a Muslim nation, FD. People when they are frightened or confused, such as when they're in the middle of a war tend to grab onto the one thing that seems to offer security and hope and that is invariably religion. In the UK and Australia, during WWII, church attendances soared. In the US, after 11 September, church attendance soared. In Afghanistan and Iran, Mosque attendances soared. Funny that, Muslims acting just like Christians, hey, FD? Roll Eyes

Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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Yadda

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Re: How does Islam improve the world?
Reply #81 - Jan 4^th, 2015 at 12:08am

"How does Islam improve the world?"

How can ISLAM improve the world, when ISLAM teaches the moslem, that to deceive by falsehood, is a virtue ?

Google;
allah, 99 names, deceiver

"How does Islam improve the world?"

How can ISLAM improve the world, when 'the moslem' [the follower of ISLAM] will neither concede nor admit that there is anything wrong with the moslem worldview, nor anything immoral with the method which moslems use [i.e. deceit and violence] to pursue that worldview ?

"It is the act of a bad man to deceive by falsehood."

- Marcus Tullius Cicero

"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Yadda

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Re: How does Islam improve the world?
Reply #82 - Jan 4^th, 2015 at 12:22am

Karnal wrote on Jan 3^rd, 2015 at 11:39am:

Islam’s core is submitting one’s ego to Oneness through prayer, fasting, pilgrimage and charity.

That’s the point of it.

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"Islam’s core is submitting one’s ego to Oneness through prayer, fasting, pilgrimage and charity."

Karnal

"It is the act of a bad man to deceive by falsehood."

- Marcus Tullius Cicero

ISLAMIC LAW....
"Ibn 'Umar related that the Messenger of Allah, upon whom be peace, said, "I have been ordered to kill the people until they testify that there is no god except Allah, and that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, and they establish prayer and pay the zakah. If they do that, their blood and wealth are protected from me save by the rights of Islam. Their reckoning will be with Allah." (Related by al-Bukhari and Muslim.) "
fiqhussunnah/fus1_06

ISLAMIC LAW....
"Ibn 'Abbas reported that the Prophet said: "The bare essence of Islam and the basics of the religion are three [acts], upon which Islam has been established. Whoever leaves one of them becomes an unbeliever and his blood may legally be spilled. [The acts are:] Testifying that there is no God except Allah, the obligatory prayers, and the fast of Ramadan."...."
fiqhussunnah/#3.110

n.b.
"Whoever......becomes an unbeliever.....his blood may legally be spilled."

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Quote:

"Islam’s core is submitting one’s ego to Oneness through prayer, fasting, pilgrimage and charity."

Karnal

"It is the act of a bad man to deceive by falsehood."

- Marcus Tullius Cicero

THE HADITH....

"...the Prophet said, 'If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him."

- DEAD.
hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #004.052.260

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Quote:

"Islam’s core is submitting one’s ego to Oneness through prayer, fasting, pilgrimage and charity."

Karnal

"It is the act of a bad man to deceive by falsehood."

- Marcus Tullius Cicero

Quote:

Use children as troops, says cleric
January 18, 2007
SYDNEY'S most influential radical Muslim cleric has been caught on film calling Jews pigs and urging children to die for Allah.
Firebrand Sheik Feiz Mohammed, head of the Global Islamic Youth Centre in Liverpool [Australia], delivered the hateful rants on a collection of DVDs called the Death Series being sold in Australia and overseas.
.........Sheik Feiz says in the video.
"We want to have children and offer them as soldiers defending Islam. Teach them this: There is nothing more beloved to me than wanting to die as a mujahid (holy warrior). Put in their soft, tender hearts the zeal of jihad and a love of martyrdom."
An Australian citizen born in Sydney who has spent the past year living in Lebanon, Sheik Feiz was exposed this week in a British documentary Undercover Mosque.
......"The peak, the pinnacle, the crest, the highest point, the pivot, the summit of Islam is jihad," he declares in the film, before denouncing "kaffirs" (non-Muslims).

"Kaffir is the worst word ever written, a sign of infidelity, disbelief, filth, a sign of dirt."

......Sheik Feiz - who just two weeks ago said he felt like an "alien" in his own country - leads about 4000 followers through his Global Islamic Youth Centre in Sydney's southwest.
He also accused Australian authorities of being over-zealous in their approach to clerics like him.

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,21074839-2,00.html
http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/014863.php

NOW LISTEN TO THE EXACT SAME MOSLEM AS HE SPEAKS TO NON-MOSLEM AUDIENCE - WHO HAVE BECOME AWARE OF HIS PREVIOUS STATEMENTS
Fiery Australian cleric claims jihad remarks were misunderstood

"The jihad I speak of is not one of violence,"...
"I don't believe in suicide bombing. I don't believe in violence against others," he said. "We denounce that. This is not Islamic law and it is not moral."

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2007/01/fiery-australian-cleric-claims-jihad-remarks-w...

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"Islam’s core is submitting one’s ego to Oneness through prayer, fasting, pilgrimage and charity."

Karnal

"It is the act of a bad man to deceive by falsehood."

- Marcus Tullius Cicero

"The Koran is our constitution"
"The Prophet Muhammad is our leader"
"Jihad is our path"
"AND DEATH FOR THE SAKE OF ALLAH IS OUR MOST LOFTY ASPIRATION!"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8NtiUMOFFg

"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Yadda

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Re: How does Islam improve the world?
Reply #83 - Jan 4^th, 2015 at 12:32am

freediver wrote on Jan 3^rd, 2015 at 8:56pm:

Even when countries slide backward towards political Islamism, it is all America's fault. Nothing to do with Islam.

e.g.
ISIS.

Nothing to do with ISLAM.

Ask gandalf, .....and Karnal!

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Quote:

"Islam’s core is submitting one’s ego to Oneness through prayer, fasting, pilgrimage and charity."

Karnal

"It is the act of a bad man to deceive by falsehood."

- Marcus Tullius Cicero

"The Koran is our constitution"
"The Prophet Muhammad is our leader"
"Jihad is our path"
"AND DEATH FOR THE SAKE OF ALLAH IS OUR MOST LOFTY ASPIRATION!"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8NtiUMOFFg

"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Yadda

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Re: How does Islam improve the world?
Reply #84 - Jan 4^th, 2015 at 1:05am

Yadda wrote on Jan 4^th, 2015 at 12:08am:

"How does Islam improve the world?"

How can ISLAM improve the world, when ISLAM teaches the moslem, that to deceive by falsehood, is a virtue ?

Google;
allah, 99 names, deceiver

Allah has certainly deceived moslems.

"Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain:...."
Koran 9.111

"Satan makes them promises, and creates in them false desires; but satan's promises are nothing but deception.
They (his dupes) will have their dwelling in Hell, and from it they will find no way of escape."
Koran 4.120

"Then, on the Day of Judgment,.....Then would they offer submission (with the pretence), "We did no evil (knowingly)." (The angels will reply), "Nay, but verily [God] knoweth all that ye did;"
Koran 16.27

There are evil spirits abroad in the world.

Where is the angel of the LORD ?

Psalms 34:7
The angel of the LORD encampeth round about them that fear him, and delivereth them.

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Isaiah 34:1
Come near, ye nations, to hear; and hearken, ye people: let the earth hear, and all that is therein; the world, and all things that come forth of it.
2 For the indignation of the LORD is upon all nations, and his fury upon all their armies: he hath utterly destroyed them, he hath delivered them to the slaughter.
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8 For it is the day of the LORD'S vengeance, and the year of recompences for the controversy of Zion.
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16 Seek ye out of the book of the LORD, and read: no one of these shall fail, none shall want her mate: for my mouth it hath commanded, and his spirit it hath gathered them.

Psalms 83:4
They have said, Come, and let us cut them off from being a nation; that the name of Israel may be no more in remembrance.

Ezekiel 35:10
Because thou hast said, These two nations and these two countries shall be mine, and we will possess it; whereas the LORD was there:
11 Therefore, as I live, saith the Lord GOD, I will even do according to thine anger, and according to thine envy which thou hast used out of thy hatred against them; and I will make myself known among them, when I have judged thee.
12 And thou shalt know that I am the LORD, and that I have heard all thy blasphemies which thou hast spoken against the mountains of Israel, saying, They are laid desolate, they are given us to consume.
13 Thus with your mouth ye have boasted against me, and have multiplied your words against me: I have heard them.

"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Karnal Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 96350	Re: How does Islam improve the world? Reply #85 - Jan 4^th, 2015 at 1:29am Sorry, Y, are you saying the five pillars of Islam are a deception? Remember, it is the act of a bad man to deceive by falsehood.
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polite_gandalf

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Re: How does Islam improve the world?
Reply #86 - Jan 4^th, 2015 at 8:38am

Baronvonrort wrote on Jan 3^rd, 2015 at 2:39pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Jan 3^rd, 2015 at 1:14pm:

Iran was OK before the Mad Mullah's took control.

Gandalf-

I am curious about your opinion of Afghanistan in the 60's,care to comment?

You mean just before the US started sponsoring jihadists and islamists who put women in tents?

A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20027 Canberra Gender:	Re: How does Islam improve the world? Reply #87 - Jan 4^th, 2015 at 8:44am freediver wrote on Jan 3^rd, 2015 at 8:56pm: Even when countries slide backward towards political Islamism, it is all America's fault. Nothing to do with Islam. Not just America - in Afghanistans case I would also blame Soviet Russia and Pakistan.
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Yadda

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Re: How does Islam improve the world?
Reply #88 - Jan 4^th, 2015 at 9:23am

Karnal wrote on Jan 4^th, 2015 at 1:29am:

Sorry, Y, are you saying the five pillars of Islam are a deception?

The the five pillars of ISLAM;
Faith
Prayer
Charitable giving [a virtue which has been perverted by 'the moslem', so as to facilitate the cause of Allah [Jihad], against 'infidels']
Fasting
Pilgrimage to Mecca

Karnal wrote on Jan 4^th, 2015 at 1:29am:

Remember, it is the act of a bad man to deceive by falsehood.

K,

Where does it say, that the five pillars of ISLAM have abrogated the commands of Allah, given in the Koran ???

The commands of Allah, in the Koran, for 'the moslem' to exercise never ending enmity and warfare against those who reject ISLAM.

"Let not the believers take for friends or helpers unbelievers rather than believers. If any do that, in nothing will there be help from Allah; except by way of precaution, that ye may guard yourselves from them."
Koran 3.28

"....take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends....
......he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them."
Koran 5.51
[n.b. Koran 5.51 clearly state that any person [a moslem] who makes sincere friendship with Jews and the Christians, IS NOT IN FACT, A MOSLEM [and all facets of ISLAM; ISLAMIC law, the Hadith, the Koran, Allah! describe Allah's hostility towards such moslems]
QUESTION;
So religiously, that means that the majority of moslems, in Australia, are not moslems, does it ??? Karnal ?
If not moslems, then WHAT ARE THEY ? ]

"O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty (unto Him)."
Koran 9.123

"There is for you an excellent example (to follow) in Abraham and those with him, when they said to their people: "We are clear of you and of whatever ye worship besides Allah: we have rejected you, and there has arisen, between us and you, enmity and hatred for ever,- unless ye believe in Allah and Him alone"....."
Koran 60:4

"....Lo! Allah is an enemy to those who reject Faith."
Koran 2.98

"....those who reject Allah have no protector."
Koran 47.008
v. 8-11

"And fight with them until.....religion should be only for Allah,..."
Koran 2.193

"....Battle, animosity, and hatred -- directed from the Muslim to the infidel -- is the foundation of our religion.."

November 10, 2008
Raymond Ibrahim: "Islam's Doctrines of Deception"
Quote:

"As to the relationship between Muslims and infidels, this is summarized by the Most High's Word: ‘We renounce you. Enmity and hate shall forever reign between us -- till you believe in Allah alone’ [Koran 60:4].

So there is an enmity, evidenced by fierce hostility from the heart. And this fierce hostility -- that is, battle -- ceases only if the infidel submits to the authority of Islam, or if his blood is forbidden from being shed [i.e., a dhimmi], or if Muslims are at that point in time weak and incapable [i.e., taqiyya]. But if the hate at any time extinguishes from the heart, this is great apostasy! Such, then, is the basis and foundation of the relationship between the infidel and the Muslim. Battle, animosity, and hatred -- directed from the Muslim to the infidel -- is the foundation of our religion. And we consider this a justice and kindness to them" (from The Al Qaeda Reader).
.....It bears repeating that this hostile world view is well supported by all of Islam’s schools of jurisprudence."

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2008/11/raymond-ibrahim-islams-doctrines-of-deception....

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Google,
smile to the face "while our hearts curse them"

Quote:

A Study in Muslim Doctrine

"...while sincere friendship with non-Muslims is forbidden,

insincere friendship - whenever beneficial to Muslims - is not."

http://www.meforum.org/2512/nidal-hasan-fort-hood-muslim-doctrine

The only type of 'peaceful' relationship with disbelievers which is permitted by ISLAMIC law, is a relationship which is based upon deceit and lying [by 'the moslem'], towards those who are not moslems, so as to advance and strengthen the interests of 'the moslem' and ISLAM.

e.g.
Quote:

July 28, 2006
Islamic Dictionary for Infidels

...Robert Spencer, ..."Religious deception of unbelievers is indeed taught by the Qur'an itself: "Let not the believers take for friends or helpers unbelievers rather than believers. If any do that, in nothing will there be help from Allah; except by way of precaution, that ye may guard yourselves from them" (Qur'an 3:28). In other words, don't make friends with unbelievers except to "guard yourselves from them": pretend to be their friends so that you can strengthen yourself against them. The distinguished Qur'anic commentator Ibn Kathir explains that this verse teaches that if "believers who in some areas or times fear for their safety from the disbelievers," they may "show friendship to the disbelievers outwardly, but never inwardly."

http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/012406.php

"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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wally1 Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 2055 Gender:	Re: How does Islam improve the world? Reply #89 - Jan 4^th, 2015 at 10:24am freediver wrote on Jan 3^rd, 2015 at 8:56pm: Even when countries slide backward towards political Islamism, it is all America's fault. Nothing to do with Islam. So Iraq wasnt america's fault?
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