Australian Politics Forum - Nick Xenophon...

Dnarever

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Re: Nick Xenophon...
Reply #15 - Jan 8^th, 2015 at 8:10am

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jan 8^th, 2015 at 5:48am:

Dnarever wrote on Jan 7^th, 2015 at 8:43pm:

Disadvantaging Independents can only advantage the Major parties.

Big Business want to get rid of independents - they bought a government and they don't want the senate to get in the way of what they want.

My thought would to be very careful with this type of reform. Independents have served us very well.

The current system does not give voters the senate they voted for. I'm not surprised your say what you said now, but would be interested to see if you maintained your point of view if a government you support was in power and its legislation was being blocked by a handful of senators who garnered less than one percent of the primary vote. The current system favours those who can make the best preference deals, as we saw with the election of that Motoring Enthusiasts Party quarter-wit with around 0.5% of the primary vote and who can now hold the government hostage. His sitting in the senate is a farce that proves that constituents aren't being represented by those the majority wanted, but instead by micro parties with an extremely narrow area of interest. Voters and this country as a whole would benefit from a change to a first past the post system and getting rid of the current senate preference system for good.

would be interested to see if you maintained your point of view if a government you support was in power

Both Rudd and Gillard faced the same position, in Gillard's case it was much worse.

The current system does not give voters the senate they voted for.

Maybe but all I said was to be careful if changing it. I would hate to see independents swapped for major party candidates who represent their party and not the electorate anyway.

The current party system undermines the intention of a senate we need more independents not less.

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John Smith

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Re: Nick Xenophon...
Reply #16 - Jan 8^th, 2015 at 8:12am

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jan 8^th, 2015 at 5:48am:

but would be interested to see if you maintained your point of view if a government you support was in power and its legislation was being blocked by a handful of senators who garnered less than one percent of the primary vote

the senate is doing exactly what it's supposed to do and blocking only the legislation that Abbott promised he wouldn't bring in. Why do you only count the primary vote? Primary vote is only the first choice, if that is not available why should my opinion not be counted? these 1 percenters may not have been anyones first choice, but the majority of people still preferred them over the others in their seat.

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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President Elect, The Mechanic

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Re: Nick Xenophon...
Reply #17 - Jan 8^th, 2015 at 9:14am

Dnarever wrote on Jan 8^th, 2015 at 8:10am:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jan 8^th, 2015 at 5:48am:

Dnarever wrote on Jan 7^th, 2015 at 8:43pm:

Disadvantaging Independents can only advantage the Major parties.

Big Business want to get rid of independents - they bought a government and they don't want the senate to get in the way of what they want.

My thought would to be very careful with this type of reform. Independents have served us very well.

The current system does not give voters the senate they voted for. I'm not surprised your say what you said now, but would be interested to see if you maintained your point of view if a government you support was in power and its legislation was being blocked by a handful of senators who garnered less than one percent of the primary vote. The current system favours those who can make the best preference deals, as we saw with the election of that Motoring Enthusiasts Party quarter-wit with around 0.5% of the primary vote and who can now hold the government hostage. His sitting in the senate is a farce that proves that constituents aren't being represented by those the majority wanted, but instead by micro parties with an extremely narrow area of interest. Voters and this country as a whole would benefit from a change to a first past the post system and getting rid of the current senate preference system for good.

would be interested to see if you maintained your point of view if a government you support was in power

Both Rudd and Gillard faced the same position, in Gillard's case it was much worse.

The current system does not give voters the senate they voted for.

Maybe but all I said was to be careful if changing it. I would hate to see independents swapped for major party candidates who represent their party and not the electorate anyway.

The current party system undermines the intention of a senate we need more independents not less.

and that's exactly why we need to change the system...

people are a wake up that they are being tricked... so in the future, they will not vote for any minor party or independent for fear of being duped...

let the government of the day govern..

if they are hopeless then they'll get voted back out.. simples...

its not about the passed... its not about Rudd, Gillard or Abbott... "he had to deal with it so, so should she"

what type of mentality is that?

don't you people care about Australia?

Labor got into bed with the greens and blackmailing independents and they held them to ransom... that was Labor's own doing by the way... they created the mess

the Liberals would have done the same given the chance.. IMO

but now we need to learn the lesson and move forward...

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Q

The STORM has arrived
Every Dog Has Its Day...
Dark to Light.
Sheep no more.

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Armchair_Politician

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Re: Nick Xenophon...
Reply #18 - Jan 8^th, 2015 at 9:36am

John Smith wrote on Jan 8^th, 2015 at 8:12am:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jan 8^th, 2015 at 5:48am:

but would be interested to see if you maintained your point of view if a government you support was in power and its legislation was being blocked by a handful of senators who garnered less than one percent of the primary vote

the senate is doing exactly what it's supposed to do and blocking only the legislation that Abbott promised he wouldn't bring in. Why do you only count the primary vote? Primary vote is only the first choice, if that is not available why should my opinion not be counted? these 1 percenters may not have been anyones first choice, but the majority of people still preferred them over the others in their seat.

So why didn't the senate block the carbon tax after Gillard and Swan ruled it out? Why was that ok?

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Scott Morrison DID wipe the floor with Bull Shitten!!!

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Bam

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Re: Nick Xenophon...
Reply #19 - Jan 8^th, 2015 at 9:49am

Quote:

the line” on the Senate ticket to choose a minimum of three potential members listed in order of preference. Voters going “below the line” would be required to choose a minimum of six potential new members.

His proposal is sensible. The only real point of difference I have is that IMO a valid vote should select at least as many Senators as vacancies, above OR below the line.

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You are not entitled to your opinion. You are only entitled to hold opinions that you can defend through sound, reasoned argument.

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Bam

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Re: Nick Xenophon...
Reply #20 - Jan 8^th, 2015 at 9:55am

Aussie wrote on Jan 7^th, 2015 at 8:26pm:

Putins Winking Eye wrote on Jan 7^th, 2015 at 8:25pm:

Hope it gets thru.

He got screwed out of a second seat because of it didn't he?

He was an Independant.

He was an independent with a registered group and a running mate, therefore voters could vote above the line for his group. His group polled 1.74 quotas on the primary vote but didn't manage to get enough preference votes for a second quota because the ticket votes for the other parties went against him.

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You are not entitled to your opinion. You are only entitled to hold opinions that you can defend through sound, reasoned argument.

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Bam

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Re: Nick Xenophon...
Reply #21 - Jan 8^th, 2015 at 10:12am

Dnarever wrote on Jan 7^th, 2015 at 8:43pm:

Disadvantaging Independents can only advantage the Major parties.

Big Business want to get rid of independents - they bought a government and they don't want the senate to get in the way of what they want.

My thought would to be very careful with this type of reform. Independents have served us very well.

There are independents, then there are minor parties that try to game the system such as the Alliance parties. Why else would the Senate ballot paper be cluttered with over a dozen parties that nobody's ever heard of that swap preferences amongst themselves?

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You are not entitled to your opinion. You are only entitled to hold opinions that you can defend through sound, reasoned argument.

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Bam

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Re: Nick Xenophon...
Reply #22 - Jan 8^th, 2015 at 10:18am

Kat wrote on Jan 8^th, 2015 at 6:34am:

Quote:

Thank heavens for the good people in the senate.

I won't be supporting or calling for any changes.

The Senate is fine as it is.

But we hear this rubbish every single time a Lib govt doesn't get a compliant
Senate, and the decent people of this country are firkin sick of the whinging.

If the Libs were a decent govt, with decent policies, they wouldn't have a problem.

But they're neither.

The Victorian Legislative Council also has a similar voting system (ticket voting) and had similar problems at the last election with minor parties on a small primary vote getting elected.

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You are not entitled to your opinion. You are only entitled to hold opinions that you can defend through sound, reasoned argument.

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