Australian Politics Forum - France terror attack is justified by Islam

Soren

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Re: France terror attack is justified by Islam
Reply #210 - Jan 12^th, 2015 at 2:10pm

it_is_the_light wrote on Jan 11^th, 2015 at 10:02pm:

Soren wrote on Jan 11^th, 2015 at 9:23pm:

it_is_the_light wrote on Jan 11^th, 2015 at 9:16pm:

Soren wrote on Jan 11^th, 2015 at 9:02pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 11^th, 2015 at 8:33pm:

Serious question for both Soren and FD - can you conceive of any situation where attacking muslims amounts to racism?

No.

Believing in Islam - being a Muslim - is not a racial trait. There are - a dwindling number, thanks to Muslims, of - Arab Christians.

Gandy, Can you conceive of any situation where attacking Christians amounts to racism?

Your problem is that you do realise, un-selfconsciously, that Islam is an Arab ideology. Christianity, on the other hand, calls you out of your nation INTO Christianity - regardless of your previous national or racial affinity.

Following Mohammed is silly. I can't believe you fall for it.

many blessings

as you are a self confessed freemason

why did you swear your oaths

and fall for a satanic system

of domination and control ?

im interested with forgiveness

namaste

If I said f Vck off lunatic, would you take it personally? I am not saying it, I am just asking what if.

Please lemme know.

many blessings

you are forgiven either way so be at peace

and at one with your grand hierophant

namaste

Forsooth.

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Soren

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Re: France terror attack is justified by Islam
Reply #211 - Jan 12^th, 2015 at 2:22pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 11^th, 2015 at 9:04pm:

Soren wrote on Jan 11^th, 2015 at 8:53pm:

If you don't believe me, go to work tomorrow and say in front of your colleagues and boss that Islamic fundamentalism must be stopped because it is a cancer on Western societies and freedoms.

What rubbish - I hear that literally all the time.

I have never heard of anyone being afraid to condemn islamic fundamentalism - as distinct from mainstream moderate muslims.

And still the bounds of accceptable public discourse go even further than that. After every terrorist attack there is a wave of right wing publications and pronouncements on talkback radio about how the islamic "extremists" are actually the mainstream etc. That there is usually a backlash against these ravings is what you mistake for "suppression of free speech". It is not suppression - it is free speech going both ways - people are free to condemn people for being bigoted just as the bigots are free to express their bigotry.

You really must have your head in the sand Soren if you trully believe Australians are gagged from speaking out against islamic extremism - or even islam.

But laughing while the Koran is read out loud in a church is verboten in Victoria.
There will be lawfare if you do that.

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\|dev\|null Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 4434 Gender:	Re: France terror attack is justified by Islam Reply #212 - Jan 12^th, 2015 at 3:36pm Never forget that it was a Muslim who also died in the Charlie Hebdo attack and it was a Muslim who saved Jews in the Kosher supermarket attack. Islamophobes can't accept Muslims as heroes.
Back to top	"Pens and books are the weapons that defeat terrorism." - Malala Yousefzai, 2013. "we will never ever solve violence while we grasp for overly simplistic solutions." Freediver, 2007. IP Logged

Quantum

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Re: France terror attack is justified by Islam
Reply #213 - Jan 12^th, 2015 at 6:21pm

|dev|null wrote on Jan 12^th, 2015 at 3:36pm:

http://almostfearless.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/jesuisAhmed.jpg

Never forget that it was a Muslim who also died in the Charlie Hebdo attack and it was a Muslim who saved Jews in the Kosher supermarket attack. Islamophobes can't accept Muslims as heroes. Grin

Several people in a coordinated effort kill a large group of people in the name of Islam = nothing to do with Islam.

Be a cop and get shot dead before you had time to do anything = Muslim hero.

Amazing how the actions that were influenced by Islam have nothing to do with Islam, yet the part that has nothing to do with the event (the religion of the cop) is something to focus on.

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freediver

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Re: France terror attack is justified by Islam
Reply #214 - Jan 12^th, 2015 at 7:34pm

Karnal wrote on Jan 12^th, 2015 at 8:13am:

Baronvonrort wrote on Jan 11^th, 2015 at 7:28pm:

Karnal wrote on Jan 11^th, 2015 at 5:04pm:

In.our society, freedom of speech is a rule. It has some limits, and we negotiate them. We don’t kill those who do things that are against the laws of our religion.

If we did, it would be a clash of civilisations.

A few of these clashes going on around the world

The Cold War was a clash of civilisations. I don’t think we’re there yet.

The Muslims combine far greater motivation with mind boggling incompetence. It is already happening. It's just impolite to talk about it. We're hoping this one will fizzle out a bit quicker than communism.

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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|dev|null

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Re: France terror attack is justified by Islam
Reply #215 - Jan 14^th, 2015 at 11:22am

Quantum wrote on Jan 12^th, 2015 at 6:21pm:

|dev|null wrote on Jan 12^th, 2015 at 3:36pm:

http://almostfearless.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/jesuisAhmed.jpg

Never forget that it was a Muslim who also died in the Charlie Hebdo attack and it was a Muslim who saved Jews in the Kosher supermarket attack. Islamophobes can't accept Muslims as heroes. Grin

Several people in a coordinated effort kill a large group of people in the name of Islam = nothing to do with Islam.

Be a cop and get shot dead before you had time to do anything = Muslim hero.

Amazing how the actions that were influenced by Islam have nothing to do with Islam, yet the part that has nothing to do with the event (the religion of the cop) is something to focus on.

Islamist attackers aren't representative of mainstream Islam.

Muslim heroes are representative of mainstream Islam.

Worked it out yet? Grin

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"Pens and books are the weapons that defeat terrorism." - Malala Yousefzai, 2013.

"we will never ever solve violence while we grasp for overly simplistic solutions."
Freediver, 2007.

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Karnal

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Re: France terror attack is justified by Islam
Reply #216 - Jan 14^th, 2015 at 11:46am

freediver wrote on Jan 12^th, 2015 at 7:34pm:

Karnal wrote on Jan 12^th, 2015 at 8:13am:

Baronvonrort wrote on Jan 11^th, 2015 at 7:28pm:

Karnal wrote on Jan 11^th, 2015 at 5:04pm:

In.our society, freedom of speech is a rule. It has some limits, and we negotiate them. We don’t kill those who do things that are against the laws of our religion.

If we did, it would be a clash of civilisations.

A few of these clashes going on around the world

The Cold War was a clash of civilisations. I don’t think we’re there yet.

The Muslims combine far greater motivation with mind boggling incompetence. It is already happening. It's just impolite to talk about it. We're hoping this one will fizzle out a bit quicker than communism.

We certainly are, but the clash is not along clear ideological boundaries. The Soviet Union and its satellites, remember, was an economic model run out of Moscow. The "free world" was a trading bloc run out of Washington and New York.

The Cold War spawned the rise of Islamic militancy in Afghanistan and the Middle East. In this sense, history can be seen to be quite dialectic, but we're not yet seeing the rise of two competing superpowers or even ideologies. Islamic militancy is not monolithic, it's based on competing cells with different agendas. With the exception of Saudi oil wealth and Wahabism, there is no real centre to it. There is no empire to speak of. Mind you, the call for an Islamic Caliphate does raise this spectre.

This would never, however, be supported by the gulf states and Iran, the geopolitical powers required to back such a plan.

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\|dev\|null Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 4434 Gender:	Re: France terror attack is justified by Islam Reply #217 - Jan 14^th, 2015 at 11:49am Which Islamic Caliphate are we discussing? IS has proclaimed itself the Caliphate. So has Boko Haram. Will the real Caliph please stand up?
Back to top	"Pens and books are the weapons that defeat terrorism." - Malala Yousefzai, 2013. "we will never ever solve violence while we grasp for overly simplistic solutions." Freediver, 2007. IP Logged

Quantum

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Re: France terror attack is justified by Islam
Reply #218 - Jan 14^th, 2015 at 12:48pm

|dev|null wrote on Jan 14^th, 2015 at 11:22am:

Quantum wrote on Jan 12^th, 2015 at 6:21pm:

|dev|null wrote on Jan 12^th, 2015 at 3:36pm:

http://almostfearless.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/jesuisAhmed.jpg

Never forget that it was a Muslim who also died in the Charlie Hebdo attack and it was a Muslim who saved Jews in the Kosher supermarket attack. Islamophobes can't accept Muslims as heroes. Grin

Several people in a coordinated effort kill a large group of people in the name of Islam = nothing to do with Islam.

Be a cop and get shot dead before you had time to do anything = Muslim hero.

Amazing how the actions that were influenced by Islam have nothing to do with Islam, yet the part that has nothing to do with the event (the religion of the cop) is something to focus on.

Islamist attackers aren't representative of mainstream Islam.

Muslim heroes are representative of mainstream Islam.

Worked it out yet? Grin

Oh I worked out the bullshlt being shoveled by the Islamophiles from the start. I'm just amazed you would so blatantly admit to believing it.

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|dev|null

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Re: France terror attack is justified by Islam
Reply #219 - Jan 14^th, 2015 at 1:01pm

Quantum wrote on Jan 14^th, 2015 at 12:48pm:

|dev|null wrote on Jan 14^th, 2015 at 11:22am:

Quantum wrote on Jan 12^th, 2015 at 6:21pm:

|dev|null wrote on Jan 12^th, 2015 at 3:36pm:

http://almostfearless.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/jesuisAhmed.jpg

Never forget that it was a Muslim who also died in the Charlie Hebdo attack and it was a Muslim who saved Jews in the Kosher supermarket attack. Islamophobes can't accept Muslims as heroes. Grin

Several people in a coordinated effort kill a large group of people in the name of Islam = nothing to do with Islam.

Be a cop and get shot dead before you had time to do anything = Muslim hero.

Amazing how the actions that were influenced by Islam have nothing to do with Islam, yet the part that has nothing to do with the event (the religion of the cop) is something to focus on.

Islamist attackers aren't representative of mainstream Islam.

Muslim heroes are representative of mainstream Islam.

Worked it out yet? Grin

Oh I worked out the bullshlt being shoveled by the Islamophiles from the start. I'm just amazed you would so blatantly admit to believing it.

Courtesy of the Oxford Dictionary:

Quote:

Islamism
Line breaks: Is¦lam|ism
Pronunciation: /ˈɪzləmɪz(ə)m

, ˈɪs-/
(also Islamicism)
Definition of Islamism in English:
noun
[mass noun]
Islamic militancy or fundamentalism.
Derivatives

Islamist
1 noun& adjective

Quote:

Islam
Line breaks: Islam
Pronunciation: /ˈɪzlɑːm

, ɪzˈlɑːm

, ˈɪslɑːm, ɪsˈlɑːm

, ˈɪzlam, ɪzˈlam, ˈɪslam, ɪsˈlam

/
Definition of Islam in English:
noun
[mass noun]
1The religion of the Muslims, a monotheistic faith regarded as revealed through Muhammad as the Prophet of Allah.

That might help you. Of course you can just keep on with being an Islamophobic bigot if you want but it just demonstrates your ignorance. Grin

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"Pens and books are the weapons that defeat terrorism." - Malala Yousefzai, 2013.

"we will never ever solve violence while we grasp for overly simplistic solutions."
Freediver, 2007.

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freediver

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Re: France terror attack is justified by Islam
Reply #220 - Jan 14^th, 2015 at 1:31pm

Karnal wrote on Jan 14^th, 2015 at 11:46am:

freediver wrote on Jan 12^th, 2015 at 7:34pm:

Karnal wrote on Jan 12^th, 2015 at 8:13am:

Baronvonrort wrote on Jan 11^th, 2015 at 7:28pm:

Karnal wrote on Jan 11^th, 2015 at 5:04pm:

In.our society, freedom of speech is a rule. It has some limits, and we negotiate them. We don’t kill those who do things that are against the laws of our religion.

If we did, it would be a clash of civilisations.

A few of these clashes going on around the world

The Cold War was a clash of civilisations. I don’t think we’re there yet.

The Muslims combine far greater motivation with mind boggling incompetence. It is already happening. It's just impolite to talk about it. We're hoping this one will fizzle out a bit quicker than communism.

We certainly are, but the clash is not along clear ideological boundaries. The Soviet Union and its satellites, remember, was an economic model run out of Moscow. The "free world" was a trading bloc run out of Washington and New York.

The Cold War spawned the rise of Islamic militancy in Afghanistan and the Middle East. In this sense, history can be seen to be quite dialectic, but we're not yet seeing the rise of two competing superpowers or even ideologies. Islamic militancy is not monolithic, it's based on competing cells with different agendas. With the exception of Saudi oil wealth and Wahabism, there is no real centre to it. There is no empire to speak of. Mind you, the call for an Islamic Caliphate does raise this spectre.

This would never, however, be supported by the gulf states and Iran, the geopolitical powers required to back such a plan.

Not every war, or clash, is between two similarly matched powers. The new Caliphate will not change that. With every victory, they lurch themselves further back in time.

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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Baronvonrort

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Re: France terror attack is justified by Islam
Reply #221 - Jan 14^th, 2015 at 1:47pm

|dev|null wrote on Jan 14^th, 2015 at 11:22am:

Islamist attackers aren't representative of mainstream Islam.

Muslim heroes are representative of mainstream Islam.

Worked it out yet?

Islamist attackers are following islam or they wouldn't be called Islamists.

People can be good in spite of Islam not because of Islam.

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Leftists and the Ayatollahs have a lot in common when it comes to criticism of Islam, they don't tolerate it.

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Soren Gold Member Offline Posts: 25654 Gender:	Re: France terror attack is justified by Islam Reply #222 - Jan 14^th, 2015 at 2:24pm \|dev\|null wrote on Jan 14^th, 2015 at 11:49am: Which Islamic Caliphate are we discussing? IS has proclaimed itself the Caliphate. So has Boko Haram. Will the real Caliph please stand up? Every Muslim is a caliphate unto himself.
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Karnal

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Re: France terror attack is justified by Islam
Reply #223 - Jan 14^th, 2015 at 2:27pm

freediver wrote on Jan 14^th, 2015 at 1:31pm:

Karnal wrote on Jan 14^th, 2015 at 11:46am:

freediver wrote on Jan 12^th, 2015 at 7:34pm:

Karnal wrote on Jan 12^th, 2015 at 8:13am:

Baronvonrort wrote on Jan 11^th, 2015 at 7:28pm:

Karnal wrote on Jan 11^th, 2015 at 5:04pm:

In.our society, freedom of speech is a rule. It has some limits, and we negotiate them. We don’t kill those who do things that are against the laws of our religion.

If we did, it would be a clash of civilisations.

A few of these clashes going on around the world

The Cold War was a clash of civilisations. I don’t think we’re there yet.

The Muslims combine far greater motivation with mind boggling incompetence. It is already happening. It's just impolite to talk about it. We're hoping this one will fizzle out a bit quicker than communism.

We certainly are, but the clash is not along clear ideological boundaries. The Soviet Union and its satellites, remember, was an economic model run out of Moscow. The "free world" was a trading bloc run out of Washington and New York.

The Cold War spawned the rise of Islamic militancy in Afghanistan and the Middle East. In this sense, history can be seen to be quite dialectic, but we're not yet seeing the rise of two competing superpowers or even ideologies. Islamic militancy is not monolithic, it's based on competing cells with different agendas. With the exception of Saudi oil wealth and Wahabism, there is no real centre to it. There is no empire to speak of. Mind you, the call for an Islamic Caliphate does raise this spectre.

This would never, however, be supported by the gulf states and Iran, the geopolitical powers required to back such a plan.

Not every war, or clash, is between two similarly matched powers.

No, but the clash we're discussing, posed by the neoconservatives at the end of the Cold War, was about two similarly opposing ideologies.

The Clash of Civilizations is about a war between two competing world views: Freeeedom versus feudalism. It is not about empires as such.

My take, however, is that such ideologies must be based within the economic superstructure. In our case, this involves competing nation states and economies.

It is impossible to have ideologies or geopolitical world views without a sustained, well-funded production of knowledge. Likewise, it is impossible to even have economies without sustained, well-funded ideologies. People regulate their desires and behaviour within economies - school, the production line, leisure time. People will even kill themselves for ideological/economic reasons: the main target of September 11 was the World Trade Centre.

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|dev|null

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Re: France terror attack is justified by Islam
Reply #224 - Jan 14^th, 2015 at 3:05pm

Soren wrote on Jan 14^th, 2015 at 2:24pm:

|dev|null wrote on Jan 14^th, 2015 at 11:49am:

Which Islamic Caliphate are we discussing?

IS has proclaimed itself the Caliphate.

So has Boko Haram.

Will the real Caliph please stand up? Grin

Every Muslim is a caliphate unto himself.

So, explain then Soren how there is IS and Boko Haram declaring they are the Caliphates and every Muslim declaring themselves a Caliphate?

My understanding is that Sunni Islam appoints (or rather self-appoints) a Caliph. Sh'ia Islam claims that a Caliph must be a direct descendent from the Prophet.

I'm genuinely interested at discrepancy between the different Caliphate which appears to contradict your view that Islam is monolithic. Grin

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"Pens and books are the weapons that defeat terrorism." - Malala Yousefzai, 2013.

"we will never ever solve violence while we grasp for overly simplistic solutions."
Freediver, 2007.

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