Australian Politics Forum - The kill team ... murdering Afghans for sport

Svengali

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The kill team ... murdering Afghans for sport
Jan 13^th, 2015 at 11:24pm

This is a case that was conducted before USA military courts. The military has dehumanized Afghans so much that the Kill team thought nothing of killing Afghans.

It appears that some will serve less than 1 year and it is likely that the longest sentence of 10 years for 3 murders will see the perpetrator out in a few years.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/nov/11/kill-team-calvin-gibbs-convicted

Quote:

Gibbs was convicted of murder for inciting two soldiers to kill 15-year-old Gul Mudin as he worked in a field. The platoon commander gave a grenade to one of the soldiers, Jeremy Morlock, who threw it at Mudin. A second soldier, Andrew Holmes, then shot the boy. Gibbs played with the corpse of the teenager "as if it was a puppet", Morlock told the trial.

The staff sergeant was also convicted of shooting dead Marach Agha, a man sleeping by a roadside, and then planting a Kalashnikov next to the corpse to make it look as if he was a fighter. He kept part of the victim's skull as a trophy.

Gibbs was convicted on a third count of murder for killing a Muslim cleric, Mullah Adahdad, with a grenade and then shooting him. Two other soldiers, Morlock and Adam Winfield, have already pleaded guilty over their roles in the killing.

Gibbs and other soldiers collected fingers, teeth and other body parts as trophies. They also took photographs of themselves posing next to their dead victims. In one of the pictures Morlock is seen lifting Mudin's head by its hair for the camera and smiling. The soldiers also took ghoulish pictures of themselves with dead combatants.
The jury of five soldiers was shown pages of Facebook messages sent by Winfield to his parents in which he described how Gibbs led the killings. In one exchange with his father Winfield recounted Mudin's killing.

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Grappler Truth Teller Feller

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Re: The kill team ... murdering Afghans for sport
Reply #1 - Jan 13^th, 2015 at 11:46pm

Nothing new - war dehumanises people, and every war has cases like this.

The military system of justice is different in that a convictee can earn time off by behaving a s a good soldier.

Clayton Lonetree, whose uncle won the CMH in Korea, one of of few Native Americans to do so, and who took a KGB officer into the US Embassy while a US Marine guard - copped a hefty sentence, ten years or so, and was out in less than half.

An officer in the 1st Cavalry who oversaw the murder of two civilians and rape of one of them in Vietnam walked when he was found to be 'mentally insufficient' - or incapable of standing trial through lack of brains. His CO, who was not present at the time of the offence - was convicted of negligence and copped a heftier penalty.

It is a very strange system. I recall the incident of the murders mentioned here with the guy walking off-base loaded for bear and shooting any Afghan in sight.

Crack-up case - means lesser sentence.

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ian

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Re: The kill team ... murdering Afghans for sport
Reply #2 - Jan 14^th, 2015 at 12:34am

come on grappler, cut the crap. these are innocent civilians these soldiers were deliberatly targeting. And we are seeing lots of cases like this amongst the US military, more than a few. There is no accident that the US basically suspended psychological testing because they couldnt get enough grunts to fight thier oil wars, now they have a situation where they have allowed a large number of psychopaths to enter the military. You and I both know that psychological evaluation is imperative because the military attracts so many of these types of people. Just look at Abu Graib. The US now has enormous problems within its military and its only going to get worse unless they weed these people out, which is unlikely.

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Svengali

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Re: The kill team ... murdering Afghans for sport
Reply #3 - Jan 14^th, 2015 at 7:21pm

ian wrote on Jan 14^th, 2015 at 12:34am:

come on grappler, cut the crap. these are innocent civilians these soldiers were deliberatly targeting. And we are seeing lots of cases like this amongst the US military, more than a few. There is no accident that the US basically suspended psychological testing because they couldnt get enough grunts to fight thier oil wars, now they have a situation where they have allowed a large number of psychopaths to enter the military. You and I both know that psychological evaluation is imperative because the military attracts so many of these types of people. Just look at Abu Graib. The US now has enormous problems within its military and its only going to get worse unless they weed these people out, which is unlikely.

Very insightful in regard to the recruitment of psychopaths.

Blatant and gratuitous murder of innocent people is unjustifiable even in war and in battle. Killing people for sport disgraces the society of the killers.

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We first fought the heathens in the name of religion, then Communism, and now in the name of drugs and terrorism. Our excuses for global domination always change.
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Grappler Truth Teller Feller

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Re: The kill team ... murdering Afghans for sport
Reply #4 - Jan 14^th, 2015 at 9:25pm

I explained it to you - people are not recruited because they are psychopaths..... their reaction to a situation in which they could momentarily be removed from this earth is a reaction to their basic requirement to survive.

This becomes twisted and distorted, and some simply go over into a very dark place.

You should not judge unless you have been there.

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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ian

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Re: The kill team ... murdering Afghans for sport
Reply #5 - Jan 14^th, 2015 at 9:28pm

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Jan 14^th, 2015 at 9:25pm:

I explained it to you - people are not recruited because they are psychopaths..... their reaction to a situation in which they could momentarily be removed from this earth is a reaction to their basic requirement to survive.

This becomes twisted and distorted, and some simply go over into a very dark place.

You should not judge unless you have been there.

its been shown that yes, the US military has been recruiting psychopaths because they were bypassing the psychological evaluation test for new recruits.

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Svengali

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Re: The kill team ... murdering Afghans for sport
Reply #6 - Jan 14^th, 2015 at 9:29pm

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Jan 14^th, 2015 at 9:25pm:

I explained it to you - people are not recruited because they are psychopaths..... their reaction to a situation in which they could momentarily be removed from this earth is a reaction to their basic requirement to survive.

This becomes twisted and distorted, and some simply go over into a very dark place.

You should not judge unless you have been there.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LvAIBDGIYE0

I must judge. I don't want to go there.

Blatant and gratuitous murder of innocent people is unjustifiable even in war and in battle. Killing people for sport disgraces the society of the killers.

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We first fought the heathens in the name of religion, then Communism, and now in the name of drugs and terrorism. Our excuses for global domination always change.
Serj Tankian

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Grappler Truth Teller Feller

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Re: The kill team ... murdering Afghans for sport
Reply #7 - Jan 14^th, 2015 at 9:34pm

Murder of innocent people in war is punished - not always. Just look at the post. It's right there.

I merely pointed out that the military justice system is not the same as the civilian one.

A court of three officers and two senior enlisted men will not make a finding of innocence unless it is warranted, and ther4e is little leeway for such pleas as "I was tired/stressed etc". These guys know that....

It's how the individual grunt behaves that is important.

The people responsible have been dealt with according to military law - not perfect, but there are reasons for it.

I hope you never have to go there.

I used to have a waking nightmare when attending my son's school... I saw all these young kids and wondered which of them would be coming ]home from the Next Big One.

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“What do we do now?” she asked, nodding towards the Chinese lines....

"Grappler gave her arm a little squeeze with his own, drawing her close, looked at her face, then looked back at the other side of the valley and the Chinese outposts... then back at Temple again....

“Go home …….. wait for the next one!”

Temple shuddered and held a little tighter, looking off into the distance,

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….she paused for a moment, then looked at Grappler full in the face,

“Let’s go home.”

Does that sound like a 'warmonger' to you? Most Vets are pacificists.. trust me.

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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innocentbystander. Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 4723 Gender:	Re: The kill team ... murdering Afghans for sport Reply #8 - Jan 14^th, 2015 at 9:39pm Afghanistan was not an "oil war", they have no oil, the yanks were there to steal their sand.
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Grappler Truth Teller Feller Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 84691 Proud pre-1850's NO Voter Gender:	Re: The kill team ... murdering Afghans for sport Reply #9 - Jan 14^th, 2015 at 9:41pm innocentbystander. wrote on Jan 14^th, 2015 at 9:39pm: Afghanistan was not an "oil war", they have no oil, the yanks were there to steal their sand. It was a move to outflank Iran and apply pressure by having that oil rich country surrounded....
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innocentbystander.

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Re: The kill team ... murdering Afghans for sport
Reply #10 - Jan 14^th, 2015 at 9:47pm

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Jan 14^th, 2015 at 9:41pm:

innocentbystander. wrote on Jan 14^th, 2015 at 9:39pm:

Afghanistan was not an "oil war", they have no oil, the yanks were there to steal their sand. Cheesy

It was a move to outflank Iran and apply pressure by having that oil rich country surrounded....

They'll steal their sand too, do you have any idea how many sand bags the US military needs to function?

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Grappler Truth Teller Feller Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 84691 Proud pre-1850's NO Voter Gender:	Re: The kill team ... murdering Afghans for sport Reply #11 - Jan 14^th, 2015 at 9:53pm Sorry - I can't handle this discussion....
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Sir lastnail

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Re: The kill team ... murdering Afghans for sport
Reply #12 - Jan 14^th, 2015 at 10:02pm

Svengali wrote on Jan 13^th, 2015 at 11:24pm:

This is a case that was conducted before USA military courts. The military has dehumanized Afghans so much that the Kill team thought nothing of killing Afghans.

It appears that some will serve less than 1 year and it is likely that the longest sentence of 10 years for 3 murders will see the perpetrator out in a few years.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/nov/11/kill-team-calvin-gibbs-convicted

Quote:

Gibbs was convicted of murder for inciting two soldiers to kill 15-year-old Gul Mudin as he worked in a field. The platoon commander gave a grenade to one of the soldiers, Jeremy Morlock, who threw it at Mudin. A second soldier, Andrew Holmes, then shot the boy. Gibbs played with the corpse of the teenager "as if it was a puppet", Morlock told the trial.

The staff sergeant was also convicted of shooting dead Marach Agha, a man sleeping by a roadside, and then planting a Kalashnikov next to the corpse to make it look as if he was a fighter. He kept part of the victim's skull as a trophy.

Gibbs was convicted on a third count of murder for killing a Muslim cleric, Mullah Adahdad, with a grenade and then shooting him. Two other soldiers, Morlock and Adam Winfield, have already pleaded guilty over their roles in the killing.

Gibbs and other soldiers collected fingers, teeth and other body parts as trophies. They also took photographs of themselves posing next to their dead victims. In one of the pictures Morlock is seen lifting Mudin's head by its hair for the camera and smiling. The soldiers also took ghoulish pictures of themselves with dead combatants.
The jury of five soldiers was shown pages of Facebook messages sent by Winfield to his parents in which he described how Gibbs led the killings. In one exchange with his father Winfield recounted Mudin's killing.

Reminds me of this scene in "Full metal jacket"

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