Australian Politics Forum - MP says male hostages 'not brave'...

Armchair_Politician

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Re: MP says male hostages 'not brave'...
Reply #30 - Jan 15^th, 2015 at 7:50am

Nile is right in that they shouldn't get bravery awards simply for being taken hostage. But at least one should be given to the guy who died trying to knock down Monis after he shot the female hostage in the head. As for Nile saying the men should've done more, it's easy for him to say that from the comfort of his parliamentary office, guarded by armed parliamentary guards! The hostages did the right thing - you don't give a deranged gunman MORE reasons to shoot you by antagonising him.

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Aussie Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 38843 Gender:	Re: MP says male hostages 'not brave'... Reply #31 - Jan 15^th, 2015 at 8:08am Quote: you don't give a deranged gunman MORE reasons to shoot you by antagonising him. Your sure you are in the right Thread? This is about Nile/Monis and not Charlie Hebdo/Muslims.
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red baron Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 10204 Blue Mountains Gender:	Re: MP says male hostages 'not brave'... Reply #32 - Jan 15^th, 2015 at 2:31pm I have heard that there was no struggle between Tori and Monis for the gun. Monis is alleged to have simply put the gun to the back of Tori's head and blown him away. I'm sure the inquest will clear this up. I am in no way criticising Tori, just working through how it all happened.
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Postmodern Trendoid III Gold Member Offline Posts: 10266 Gender:	Re: MP says male hostages 'not brave'... Reply #33 - Jan 15^th, 2015 at 11:35pm Those in the cafe should have just called him a racist and a bigot. Peace would have then ensured.
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buzzanddidj

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Re: MP says male hostages 'not brave'...
Reply #34 - Jan 17^th, 2015 at 11:19am

There is but ONE individual could TRUELY be labelled a "HERO"
in this whole nasty episode - and worthy of a (posthumous) bravery award

Quote:

THE manager of the Lindt cafe who was fatally shot in the Martin Place siege is being praised as a hero who helped others trapped in the cafe to escape.

Tori Johnson, 34, was wrestling a gun from hostage-taker Man Haron Monis when he was killed.

It is understood the cafe manager decided to take action when the gunman began to doze off after the siege had been ongoing for 17 hours.

He lunged at the hostage-taker’s weapon, allowing others to flee.

He was one of two hostages killed in the siege, with 38-year-old lawyer Katrina Dawson also fatally shot.

http://www.news.com.au/national/martin-place-cafe-siege-police-storm-cafe-and-ki...

Sydney siege victim Tori Johnson, right, pictured with his partner of 14 years Thomas Zinn

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Andrei.Hicks Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 23818 Carlsbad, CA Gender:	Re: MP says male hostages 'not brave'... Reply #35 - Jan 17^th, 2015 at 11:43am Poor form that. Using the death of a man to promote an agenda.
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buzzanddidj Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 14213 Eganstown, via Daylesford, VIC Gender:	Re: MP says male hostages 'not brave'... Reply #36 - Jan 17^th, 2015 at 12:28pm Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jan 17^th, 2015 at 11:43am: *Poor form that. Using the death of a man to promote an agenda.* I'll leave that to Tom Zinn - but I doubt HE would see your "agenda" , as you put it
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Bias_2012

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Re: MP says male hostages 'not brave'...
Reply #37 - Jan 17^th, 2015 at 12:52pm

This "Bravery" award thing is only in the minds of those promoting the "victim mentality". It's a way of shifting blame from the powers that be and multiculturalists for their globalist policies that they know will have teething troubles while they destroy Australian nationhood and sovereignty in accordance with the thinking of the world elite

So the bravery awards then become reality to appease the masses who will continue to blame the gunman for his stupid act of aggression. By doing this, the powers that be and the multiculturalists are attempting to protect themselves from any future retribution at the ballot box etc. It's a clever tactic, giving the masses something like that just like the clever tactic of giving the politically dumbed down a host of celebrity "whinge" and "slimming pill" etc stories on tv to keep them happy and further hide the real politics that's going on from them. The politics of global integration by destroying our sovereignty, both national and personal

Nile was basically right, he just got all the wording and grammar wrong and it was imprudent for him to say "the only man there was the gunman"

The law of nature which more than applies when you're in a tight corner demands that you save yourself first by whatever means, then and only then do you try to save others if they mean something to you. So what would others mean to us ? Well, that's up to the individual to decide ... and tell me you're not thinking in an individual way about family, friends and your car payments when there is suddenly a chance you may lose your life in the next few minutes

Tori is the only hostage that deserves an award

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buzzanddidj Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 14213 Eganstown, via Daylesford, VIC Gender:	Re: MP says male hostages 'not brave'... Reply #38 - Jan 17^th, 2015 at 1:11pm Bias_2012 wrote on Jan 17^th, 2015 at 12:52pm: *Tori is the only hostage that deserves an award* Not too many would disagree *( ... except Andrei, of course - why should the gay guy be singled out)*
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Bias_2012

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Re: MP says male hostages 'not brave'...
Reply #39 - Jan 17^th, 2015 at 1:31pm

buzzanddidj wrote on Jan 17^th, 2015 at 1:11pm:

Not too many would disagree
( ... except Andrei, of course - why should the gay guy be singled out)

He deserves an award not because he was gay you nong, he deserves it because he attempted to bring the ordeal to an end and lost his life in the process

Personally, I wouldn't have gone for the gun, I would have shoved a car key in his eye, to take him out, not the gun

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buzzanddidj

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Re: MP says male hostages 'not brave'...
Reply #40 - Jan 17^th, 2015 at 6:28pm

Bias_2012 wrote on Jan 17^th, 2015 at 1:31pm:

buzzanddidj wrote on Jan 17^th, 2015 at 1:11pm:

Not too many would disagree
( ... except Andrei, of course - why should the gay guy be singled out)

He deserves an award not because he was gay you nong

At NO point did I SUGGEST that
I DID point out - based on his reaction and past "form" - Andrei would find some reason to oppose any "bravery award" BECAUSE Tori was gay ( ... or even MORE SO, if he was INDIAN)

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Andrei.Hicks

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Re: MP says male hostages 'not brave'...
Reply #41 - Jan 17^th, 2015 at 6:56pm

buzzanddidj wrote on Jan 17^th, 2015 at 1:11pm:

Bias_2012 wrote on Jan 17^th, 2015 at 12:52pm:

Tori is the only hostage that deserves an award

Not too many would disagree

( ... except Andrei, of course - why should the gay guy be singled out)

A stupid post.
Bias' comment is right. His bravery and his sexuality are totally irrelevant and there was zero need for you to point it out other continue an agenda you have.

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buzzanddidj Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 14213 Eganstown, via Daylesford, VIC Gender:	Re: MP says male hostages 'not brave'... Reply #42 - Jan 17^th, 2015 at 7:07pm Armchair_Politician wrote on Jan 15^th, 2015 at 7:50am: *... at least one should be given to the guy who died trying to knock down Monis after he shot the female hostage in the head.* Creative embellishment - or just an over-active imagination ?
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The_Barnacle

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Re: MP says male hostages 'not brave'...
Reply #43 - Jan 18^th, 2015 at 11:09am

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jan 15^th, 2015 at 7:50am:

Nile is right in that they shouldn't get bravery awards simply for being taken hostage. But at least one should be given to the guy who died trying to knock down Monis after he shot the female hostage in the head. As for Nile saying the men should've done more, it's easy for him to say that from the comfort of his parliamentary office, guarded by armed parliamentary guards! The hostages did the right thing - you don't give a deranged gunman MORE reasons to shoot you by antagonising him.

It was actually a police bullet that killed the female hostage

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/martin-place-siege-victim-katrina-dawson-struck-by-a-p...

It has also been claimed that Monis was not falling asleep when Tori tried to grab the gun

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/sydney-siege-inside-the-terrifying-hostage-drama-20141...

I'm not being judgemental, but as much as we would like the hostages to be heros it may not turn out that way once the investigation has been completed. It's quite possible that if Tori had been more patient everybody would have got out alive.

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philperth2010 Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20513 Perth Gender:	Re: MP says male hostages 'not brave'... Reply #44 - Jan 18^th, 2015 at 11:16am Whilst Nile may have had a very vague point he is basically calling the male hostages gutless and attributes bravery to the gunman.....Nile would have done nothing if he was in the same situation.....Nile can get stuffed IMO!!!
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