Australian Politics Forum - Je Suis [insert holocaust denier]

gizmo_2655

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Re: Je Suis [insert holocaust denier]
Reply #30 - Jan 16^th, 2015 at 1:31pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 16^th, 2015 at 1:19pm:

Bobby. wrote on Jan 15^th, 2015 at 11:05am:

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 15^th, 2015 at 4:19am:

Hypocrisy within hypocrisy: not only are holocaust denial laws an attack on free speech, but in the law itself, one type of genocide denial is allowed while another is not.

Criticising a non - existent God is different to denying the murder
of 6 million Jews & 6 million other people for
which the evidence is over whelming.

There is no elephant in the room.

So just to be clear Bobby, limits to freedom of speech is contingent upon how overwhelming the evidence is on the particular topic in question?

Presumably you would support gaoling/fining people for claiming the earth is flat or that man-made global warming doesn't exist?

The limit on ANY speech should be veracity...based on evidence.
And 'man-made global warming' is still under discussion/dispute.

In this case, claiming that Jews 'made up' the Holocaust for personal ( Jewish) gain is clearly NOT true.

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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
Bobbythebat

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BatteriesNotIncluded

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people died for this!

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Re: Je Suis [insert holocaust denier]
Reply #31 - Jan 16^th, 2015 at 1:33pm

gizmo_2655 wrote on Jan 16^th, 2015 at 1:31pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 16^th, 2015 at 1:19pm:

Bobby. wrote on Jan 15^th, 2015 at 11:05am:

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 15^th, 2015 at 4:19am:

Hypocrisy within hypocrisy: not only are holocaust denial laws an attack on free speech, but in the law itself, one type of genocide denial is allowed while another is not.

Criticising a non - existent God is different to denying the murder
of 6 million Jews & 6 million other people for
which the evidence is over whelming.

There is no elephant in the room.

So just to be clear Bobby, limits to freedom of speech is contingent upon how overwhelming the evidence is on the particular topic in question?

Presumably you would support gaoling/fining people for claiming the earth is flat or that man-made global warming doesn't exist?

The limit on ANY speech should be veracity...based on evidence.
And 'man-made global warming' is still under discussion/dispute.

In this case, claiming that Jews 'made up' the Holocaust for personal ( Jewish) gain is clearly NOT true.

lol, and copper internet is good yehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh i vote liberal and know stuff Roll Eyes

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*Sure....they're anti competitive as any subsidised job is. It wouldn't be there without the tax payer. Very damned difficult for a brainwashed collectivist to understand that I know.... (swaggy) *

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freediver

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Re: Je Suis [insert holocaust denier]
Reply #32 - Jan 16^th, 2015 at 1:44pm

BatteriesNotIncluded wrote on Jan 16^th, 2015 at 1:30pm:

freediver wrote on Jan 16^th, 2015 at 1:27pm:

Free trade means something to me. Just because you do not understand it does not mean everyone else is

clueless

.

You're talking about the concept: i'm talking about the words

Clueless

,... lol

So the concept has meaning, but the words used to refer to the concept don't?

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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BatteriesNotIncluded

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people died for this!

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Re: Je Suis [insert holocaust denier]
Reply #33 - Jan 16^th, 2015 at 1:53pm

freediver wrote on Jan 16^th, 2015 at 1:44pm:

BatteriesNotIncluded wrote on Jan 16^th, 2015 at 1:30pm:

freediver wrote on Jan 16^th, 2015 at 1:27pm:

Free trade means something to me. Just because you do not understand it does not mean everyone else is

clueless

.

You're talking about the concept: i'm talking about the words

Clueless

,... lol

So the concept has meaning, but the words used to refer to the concept don't?

Um, well: are you saying lies are useful are you?

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*Sure....they're anti competitive as any subsidised job is. It wouldn't be there without the tax payer. Very damned difficult for a brainwashed collectivist to understand that I know.... (swaggy) *

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polite_gandalf

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Re: Je Suis [insert holocaust denier]
Reply #34 - Jan 16^th, 2015 at 1:53pm

freediver wrote on Jan 16^th, 2015 at 1:22pm:

Quote:

I have come around on the holocaust denial issue.

Good for you.

Quote:

I'd be really interested if you elaborated on that FD. On the surface this seems an extraordinary thing to say for someone like you to say this. You've previously said you support people having the right to do things like vilify muslims through racial caricatures and march down the street demanding people be beheaded for insulting islam - now you are saying its a bit more 'complicated' when it comes to holding an opinion on history??

People can be motivated by racism to mock Muhammed or deny the holcaust. It can be an expression of their racism. It should be a legally protected expression. The expression is not in itself racist.

Protecting racial expression shouldn't extend to protecting incitement to violence - agreed?

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 48856 At my desk.	Re: Je Suis [insert holocaust denier] Reply #35 - Jan 16^th, 2015 at 1:55pm Sort of. That can be interpreted very broadly. I would not censor sprint's posts, for example. It depends on whether it could be reasonably expected that actual violence would result.
Back to top	People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words. IP Logged

cods

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Re: Je Suis [insert holocaust denier]
Reply #36 - Jan 16^th, 2015 at 2:33pm

freediver wrote on Jan 16^th, 2015 at 1:55pm:

Sort of. That can be interpreted very broadly. I would not censor sprint's posts, for example. It depends on whether it could be reasonably expected that actual violence would result.

so you admit you CAN censor therefor bang goes Sprints FREEDOM OF SPEECH.....because its up to FD if it acceptable. Roll Eyes

yet you claim we all have it and its worth killing for to keep it... Roll Eyes

funny that!

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BatteriesNotIncluded

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Re: Je Suis [insert holocaust denier]
Reply #37 - Jan 16^th, 2015 at 2:36pm

cods wrote on Jan 16^th, 2015 at 2:33pm:

freediver wrote on Jan 16^th, 2015 at 1:55pm:

Sort of. That can be interpreted very broadly. I would not censor sprint's posts, for example. It depends on whether it could be reasonably expected that actual violence would result.

so you admit you CAN censor therefor bang goes Sprints FREEDOM OF SPEECH.....because its up to FD if it acceptable. Roll Eyes

yet you claim we all have it and its worth killing for to keep it... Roll Eyes

funny that!

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*Sure....they're anti competitive as any subsidised job is. It wouldn't be there without the tax payer. Very damned difficult for a brainwashed collectivist to understand that I know.... (swaggy) *

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polite_gandalf

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Re: Je Suis [insert holocaust denier]
Reply #38 - Jan 16^th, 2015 at 3:23pm

freediver wrote on Jan 16^th, 2015 at 1:55pm:

Sort of. That can be interpreted very broadly. I would not censor sprint's posts, for example. It depends on whether it could be reasonably expected that actual violence would result.

Yes, it depends on context of time and place - as I've been saying all along. To take an extreme example, disseminating racial caricatures of scheming jews in Nazi Germany would be rather inciteful wouldn't it?

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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polite_gandalf

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Re: Je Suis [insert holocaust denier]
Reply #39 - Jan 16^th, 2015 at 3:28pm

freediver wrote on Jan 16^th, 2015 at 1:55pm:

I would not censor sprint's posts

How does Sprint's comments to (for example) indiscriminately raze mosques to the ground stand up against Australian hate laws? I'm genuinely curious. I frequent another forum - based in the UK - who censors any holocaust denial because it violates several European laws.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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gizmo_2655

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Re: Je Suis [insert holocaust denier]
Reply #40 - Jan 16^th, 2015 at 4:39pm

BatteriesNotIncluded wrote on Jan 16^th, 2015 at 1:33pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Jan 16^th, 2015 at 1:31pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 16^th, 2015 at 1:19pm:

Bobby. wrote on Jan 15^th, 2015 at 11:05am:

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 15^th, 2015 at 4:19am:

Hypocrisy within hypocrisy: not only are holocaust denial laws an attack on free speech, but in the law itself, one type of genocide denial is allowed while another is not.

Criticising a non - existent God is different to denying the murder
of 6 million Jews & 6 million other people for
which the evidence is over whelming.

There is no elephant in the room.

So just to be clear Bobby, limits to freedom of speech is contingent upon how overwhelming the evidence is on the particular topic in question?

Presumably you would support gaoling/fining people for claiming the earth is flat or that man-made global warming doesn't exist?

The limit on ANY speech should be veracity...based on evidence.
And 'man-made global warming' is still under discussion/dispute.

In this case, claiming that Jews 'made up' the Holocaust for personal ( Jewish) gain is clearly NOT true.

lol, and copper internet is good yehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh i vote liberal and know stuff Roll Eyes

;D

And that idea is simply because YOU are drug buggered looney...

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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
Bobbythebat

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ImSpartacus2

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Re: Je Suis [insert holocaust denier]
Reply #41 - Jan 16^th, 2015 at 5:26pm

gizmo_2655 wrote on Jan 16^th, 2015 at 1:31pm:

Quote:

Bobby. wrote on Jan 15^th, 2015 at 11:05am:

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 15^th, 2015 at 4:19am:

Hypocrisy within hypocrisy: not only are holocaust denial laws an attack on free speech, but in the law itself, one type of genocide denial is allowed while another is not.

Criticising a non - existent God is different to denying the murder
of 6 million Jews & 6 million other people for
which the evidence is over whelming.

There is no elephant in the room.

So just to be clear Bobby, limits to freedom of speech is contingent upon how overwhelming the evidence is on the particular topic in question?

Presumably you would support gaoling/fining people for claiming the earth is flat or that man-made global warming doesn't exist?

The limit on ANY speech should be veracity...based on evidence.
And 'man-made global warming' is still under discussion/dispute.

In this case, claiming that Jews 'made up' the Holocaust for personal ( Jewish) gain is clearly NOT true.

So let's see gizmo. You're saying we should put limits on what a person can say based on what someone decides is proved by the evidence. Absurd!!! Clearly you're so desperate to justify the double standard of allowing anti Muslim hate speech and bannining anti Jewish hate speech that you come up with this rediculous justification. Global warming you say is still up for discussion. And yet the UN says its beyond doubt. Does that mean you should be put in prison for denying man made GW. And where does that put people with new ideas. Just ignorant!!!! You're absurd double standards are half the reason were in this mess with so called terrorists.

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gizmo_2655

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Re: Je Suis [insert holocaust denier]
Reply #42 - Jan 16^th, 2015 at 5:44pm

ImSpartacus2 wrote on Jan 16^th, 2015 at 5:26pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Jan 16^th, 2015 at 1:31pm:

Quote:

Bobby. wrote on Jan 15^th, 2015 at 11:05am:

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 15^th, 2015 at 4:19am:

Hypocrisy within hypocrisy: not only are holocaust denial laws an attack on free speech, but in the law itself, one type of genocide denial is allowed while another is not.

Criticising a non - existent God is different to denying the murder
of 6 million Jews & 6 million other people for
which the evidence is over whelming.

There is no elephant in the room.

So just to be clear Bobby, limits to freedom of speech is contingent upon how overwhelming the evidence is on the particular topic in question?

Presumably you would support gaoling/fining people for claiming the earth is flat or that man-made global warming doesn't exist?

The limit on ANY speech should be veracity...based on evidence.
And 'man-made global warming' is still under discussion/dispute.

In this case, claiming that Jews 'made up' the Holocaust for personal ( Jewish) gain is clearly NOT true.

So let's see gizmo. You're saying we should put limits on what a person can say based on what someone decides is proved by the evidence. Absurd!!! Clearly you're so desperate to justify the double standard of allowing anti Muslim hate speech and bannining anti Jewish hate speech that you come up with this rediculous justification. Global warming you say is still up for discussion. And yet the UN says its beyond doubt. Does that mean you should be put in prison for denying man made GW. And where does that put people with new ideas. Just ignorant!!!! You're absurd double standards are half the reason were in this mess with so called terrorists.

Umm No Global Warming is STILL 'disputed' by scientists who ARE actually AS 'qualified' as the scientists who support it...which makes AGW a 'NEUTRAL' concept, at the moment...so, NO the UN (a political organisation) is WRONG on AGW.

And banning anti-Jewish 'hate speech' (like Holocaust denial, which IS incorrect) is very different to banning Islamic extremist 'hate speech' which IS true, based on the Charlie Hedbo attack, and the the Lindt chocolate attack and any number of OTHER incidents...

Sorry, but Muslim extremists DO , in fact, commit verifiable attacks on Western society, on a regular basis...whereas there is zero proof that the Holocaust idea is anything other than true..

I know you might 'hate' Jews, or Israelis... but actual reality shows that Muslim cause far more deaths and damage than the Jews do.

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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
Bobbythebat

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Lady Ignora New Member Offline I like poems Posts: 22 Everywhere Gender:	Re: Je Suis [insert holocaust denier] Reply #43 - Jan 16^th, 2015 at 5:46pm Excellent points made by gandalf on a general (yet specific) level and the poster cods has successfully managed to drill down to relevance on very immediate local censorship. Let's stifle anything which might offend Jews, but encourage anything which will offend Muslims.
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gizmo_2655

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Re: Je Suis [insert holocaust denier]
Reply #44 - Jan 16^th, 2015 at 5:59pm

Lady Ignora wrote on Jan 16^th, 2015 at 5:46pm:

Excellent points made by gandalf on a general (yet specific) level and the poster cods has successfully managed to drill down to relevance on very immediate local censorship. Let's stifle anything which might offend Jews, but encourage anything which will offend Muslims.

Cheesy

No, not really...exactly HOW many terrorist attacks have the Israelis, or the Jews, carried out in the last 20 years??? Oh and DON"T bother mentioning Gaza..

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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
Bobbythebat

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