Australian Politics Forum - Je Suis [insert holocaust denier]

polite_gandalf

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Je Suis [insert holocaust denier]
Jan 15^th, 2015 at 3:27am

In the aftermath of the Charlie Hebdo attacks in which we are seeing a tsunami of support for free speech in France - and indeed the whole of the western world, is everyone missing the elephant in the room here?

Holocaust denial is subject to legal restrictions in many European countries. This amounts to a thought crime, and is an outrageous affront to the principle of free speech. There's just no other way of spinning this. If this Charlie Hebdo business doesn't jolt Europe into reconsidering these egregious attacks on free speech, then the hypocrisy will be breathtaking.

The masses of French people who are spontaneously coming out onto the street to stand up for free speech might want to examine their own laws on holocaust denial:

Quote:

In France, the Gayssot Act, voted for on July 13, 1990, makes it illegal to question the existence of crimes that fall in the category of crimes against humanity as defined in the London Charter of 1945, on the basis of which Nazi leaders were convicted by the International Military Tribunal at Nuremberg in 1945-46. When the act was challenged by Robert Faurisson, the Human Rights Committee upheld it as a necessary means to counter possible antisemitism.[22] In 2012, the Constitutional Council of France ruled that to extend the Gayssot Act to the Armenian Genocide denial was unconstitutional because it violated the freedom of speech

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laws_against_Holocaust_denial#France

The last sentence in bold took my breath away when I first read it.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20027 Canberra Gender:	Re: Je Suis [insert holocaust denier] Reply #1 - Jan 15^th, 2015 at 4:19am Hypocrisy within hypocrisy: not only are holocaust denial laws an attack on free speech, but in the law itself, one type of genocide denial is allowed while another is not.
Back to top	A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said: Quote: Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms. IP Logged

Rocketanski Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 1335 Gender:	Re: Je Suis [insert holocaust denier] Reply #2 - Jan 15^th, 2015 at 6:04am I really hate to admit this; I agree.
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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 48856 At my desk.	Re: Je Suis [insert holocaust denier] Reply #3 - Jan 15^th, 2015 at 9:18am Gandalf do you support the Australian laws that outlaw holocaust denial?
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Soren

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Re: Je Suis [insert holocaust denier]
Reply #4 - Jan 15^th, 2015 at 10:56am

There are some significant differences between the holocaust and genocide. The holocaust is a type of genocide but it remains unique in its scale and especially in its methods, industrial and bureaucratic scale, and the co-opting of the entire state apparatus as a matter of policy.
I do not think these aspects were present in genocide of the Armenians.

Holocaust is a word going back to the middle ages and is specifically used to describe the systematic pogroms against the Jews. Genocide is a word coined during WWII to describe the systematic murdering of others, like Poles.

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Bobby.

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Re: Je Suis [insert holocaust denier]
Reply #5 - Jan 15^th, 2015 at 11:05am

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 15^th, 2015 at 4:19am:

Hypocrisy within hypocrisy: not only are holocaust denial laws an attack on free speech, but in the law itself, one type of genocide denial is allowed while another is not.

Criticising a non - existent God is different to denying the murder
of 6 million Jews & 6 million other people for
which the evidence is over whelming.

There is no elephant in the room.

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stryder

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Re: Je Suis [insert holocaust denier]
Reply #6 - Jan 15^th, 2015 at 11:12am

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 15^th, 2015 at 4:19am:

Hypocrisy within hypocrisy: not only are holocaust denial laws an attack on free speech, but in the law itself, one type of genocide denial is allowed while another is not.

I agree with gandalf as well, I think this denial of free speech on this topic is stupid as well.

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Rocketanski Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 1335 Gender:	Re: Je Suis [insert holocaust denier] Reply #7 - Jan 15^th, 2015 at 3:44pm There's something getting in the way of the Hollywood endorsed version of 'the Holocaust'. It's called evidence.
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\|dev\|null Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 4434 Gender:	Re: Je Suis [insert holocaust denier] Reply #8 - Jan 15^th, 2015 at 3:54pm freediver wrote on Jan 15^th, 2015 at 9:18am: Gandalf do you support the Australian laws that outlaw holocaust denial? What laws specifically outlaw Holocaust Denial FD? I'd be interested to see you actually quote them.
Back to top	"Pens and books are the weapons that defeat terrorism." - Malala Yousefzai, 2013. "we will never ever solve violence while we grasp for overly simplistic solutions." Freediver, 2007. IP Logged

Life_goes_on Gold Member Offline Posts: 4772 400kms south of Yobsville, Qld Gender:	Re: Je Suis [insert holocaust denier] Reply #9 - Jan 15^th, 2015 at 4:32pm
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polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20027 Canberra Gender:	Re: Je Suis [insert holocaust denier] Reply #10 - Jan 16^th, 2015 at 4:30am freediver wrote on Jan 15^th, 2015 at 9:18am: Gandalf do you support the Australian laws that outlaw holocaust denial? The idea that rejecting the historical evidence of a particular event in history amounts to racial discrimination is absurd - don't you think?
Back to top	A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said: Quote: Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms. IP Logged

freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 48856 At my desk.	Re: Je Suis [insert holocaust denier] Reply #11 - Jan 16^th, 2015 at 10:29am Not entirely, although I do think you have to actually do something in order to "discriminate," at least in the legal sense. Do you support censorship of holocaust denial Gandalf?
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Baronvonrort

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Re: Je Suis [insert holocaust denier]
Reply #12 - Jan 16^th, 2015 at 10:35am

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 16^th, 2015 at 4:30am:

freediver wrote on Jan 15^th, 2015 at 9:18am:

Gandalf do you support the Australian laws that outlaw holocaust denial?

The idea that rejecting the historical evidence of a particular event in history amounts to racial discrimination is absurd - don't you think?

Are you in the holocaust denier camp Gandalf or do you think it happened?

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Leftists and the Ayatollahs have a lot in common when it comes to criticism of Islam, they don't tolerate it.

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cods

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Re: Je Suis [insert holocaust denier]
Reply #13 - Jan 16^th, 2015 at 10:37am

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 15^th, 2015 at 4:19am:

Hypocrisy within hypocrisy: not only are holocaust denial laws an attack on free speech, but in the law itself, one type of genocide denial is allowed while another is not.

no good asking FD about Freedom of speech.. he doesnt even allow that on this forum!!!

have you tried swearing.. or calling someone a nice person.... I used the M word...see what I mean?..

that fd is not FREEDOM OF SPEECH....

and as for Holocaust denial....how do you legislate against the way people think?....

we are chatting away on here...if we all denied history... what can anyone do about it?????....tell them to stop thinking.. OK>.

I agree about the French of course....i wonder what would happen if CHarlie now turns his sights to Denying the Holocaust?? in cartoon mode...

how do you think that would go down?????

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freediver

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Re: Je Suis [insert holocaust denier]
Reply #14 - Jan 16^th, 2015 at 10:42am

Quote:

that fd is not FREEDOM OF SPEECH....

Cods, are you actively campaigning against freedom of speech? Do you actually think it means you can compel me to publish anything you want? You either have no clue what it is, or are looking for any mindless propaganda you can find to undermine it.

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we are chatting away on here...if we all denied history... what can anyone do about it?????

They have recently put Australians in jail because of this. That's what they can do.

Quote:

I agree about the French of course....i wonder what would happen if CHarlie now turns his sights to Denying the Holocaust?? in cartoon mode...

They do not just target Muslims. They have a go at everything.

What do you agree with?

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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