Australian Politics Forum - The Bali 9's two main players soon to be shot

Lord Herbert

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Re: The Bali 9's two main players soon to be shot
Reply #45 - Jan 17^th, 2015 at 10:10am

Bobby. wrote on Jan 17^th, 2015 at 10:03am:

Good post Herbert - it's a rotten trade preying upon misery

& the big guys never get caught - yet alone shot by firing squad.

There is not the slightest doubt in my mind that the Australian government knows it spends virtually nothing on preventing drugs from being smuggled into Australia by the tonne.

There are no where near enough sniffer-dogs and their handlers employed at the wharves and airports.

Only one container out of xyz number actually gets checked by our customs officers.

The inspectors are hopelessly under-staffed with the full knowledge of our successive governments.

The drugs trade is virtually sponsored by government neglect and inaction in this regard.

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Baronvonrort

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Re: The Bali 9's two main players soon to be shot
Reply #46 - Jan 17^th, 2015 at 10:40am

Lord Herbert wrote on Jan 17^th, 2015 at 9:59am:

Bobby. wrote on Jan 17^th, 2015 at 9:31am:

You don't see my point?

The big crims get off scott free.

They sure do ...

..http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e150/ruffdiamond/January%202013/crop2_zps36cdb...
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e150/ruffdiamond/January%202013/crop1_zps0e2ef...
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e150/ruffdiamond/January%202013/crop3_zps85126...

The Taliban banned poppy growing because they had a huge surplus from the bumper crop the previous year,they were concerned the prices would drop if the market was flooded.

They lifted the ban when the stocks were getting depleted.

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Leftists and the Ayatollahs have a lot in common when it comes to criticism of Islam, they don't tolerate it.

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Baronvonrort

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Re: The Bali 9's two main players soon to be shot
Reply #47 - Jan 17^th, 2015 at 10:48am

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Jan 17^th, 2015 at 7:58am:

You seem to forget the 90% that gets through.

What percentage of containers are searched by Customs?

They open a random one here and there.

Customs go by invoices with the shipping documents, if the importer is importing from someone with an approved supplier code like Revlon those containers will not be opened up.

Try importing something from Asia without an approved supplier code from the exporter and see what happens, I bet it gets searched.

First thing customs do is check the invoices and who is the supplier and exporter of the goods,if they don't have an approved supplier code they are likely to be searched.

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Leftists and the Ayatollahs have a lot in common when it comes to criticism of Islam, they don't tolerate it.

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longweekend58

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Re: The Bali 9's two main players soon to be shot
Reply #48 - Jan 17^th, 2015 at 12:10pm

Lord Herbert wrote on Jan 17^th, 2015 at 10:10am:

Bobby. wrote on Jan 17^th, 2015 at 10:03am:

Good post Herbert - it's a rotten trade preying upon misery

& the big guys never get caught - yet alone shot by firing squad.

There is not the slightest doubt in my mind that the Australian government knows it spends virtually nothing on preventing drugs from being smuggled into Australia by the tonne.

There are no where near enough sniffer-dogs and their handlers employed at the wharves and airports.

Only one container out of xyz number actually gets checked by our customs officers.

The inspectors are hopelessly under-staffed with the full knowledge of our successive governments.

The drugs trade is virtually sponsored by government neglect and inaction in this regard.

that's a bit unreasonable don't you think not to mention that every other country is worse. How do you inspect EVERYTHING coming into the country. search every container, open every box, pull apart everything?

random searches get some results but are mainly there to demonstrate that there really IS a risk of being caught. IN addition, there are mainly intelligence operations to combat the problem in the first place.

I agree we need more effort, but to claim we are not doing anything is silly.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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ryan

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Re: The Bali 9's two main players soon to be shot
Reply #49 - Jan 17^th, 2015 at 12:51pm

I was just reading an article saying abbott wont push to much because he doesn't want to affect relations with Indonesia.

So let me get this straight, When they come here and rape women and do a bunch of crazy stuff we're just supposed to forgive them right ?

but when our people make a mistake theirs no forgiveness

Why do people allow this ? I'll travel to Sydney, Melbourne, Canberra where ever, Surely theirs someone with money and power in this country that hates whats going on,

all we need is a voice that the media can't silence, if we get that voice i'll dedicate my life to the movement

does anyone else feel this way ? I have no faith in the Australian government anymore, I sure as hell don't trust them, get rid of anyone involved and start again, the people in charge now and doing everything they can to hurt Australians who want to go to work and live in peace

something needs to be done,

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nasus

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Re: The Bali 9's two main players soon to be shot
Reply #50 - Jan 17^th, 2015 at 12:53pm

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Jan 17^th, 2015 at 7:12am:

cods wrote on Jan 17^th, 2015 at 7:01am:

as for the Bali boys....it could happen any day now...

this is some kind of torture I would think...and thats not just for the Australians look at all those they shoot.. they all go through the same thing..never knowing when it will be them.for years...we condemned America for torture... why not Indonesia...

Those that are against the death penalty condemn all nations that still use that disgusting, inhumane form of punishment. They're barbaric, the death penalty should have been abandoned back in the 19th century, it certainly doesn't belong in the modern world of the 21st century, no matter how undeveloped the nation is.

Just so I understand what you have written, it is OK for the people whom I won't name in Iraq and Syria to cut the throat of hostages. Get someone son to hold a pistol to a captives head and put a bullet in the back of their skull, or to take captives in certain other countries, including Mexico and if ransoms aren't paid, or for some other reason a hostage taker can kill them, KEEPING in mind all these people whom are executed or murdered have committed NO crime, no sin. People can be executed for drawing a cartoon and for any other small indiscretion. BUT governments are not allowed to execute prisoners who have been found guilty of some horrendous crime? I have got that right then?
May I also point out if you are mentioning the 19th Centaury, the 1800 hundreds we are including the very end of French Revolution, yes in early 1800 there was still some reprisals, then God knows how many other tens of Millions of people where hanged in England who were not fortunate enough to be deported to this lovely country. I don't think anyone in the 1800 hundreds gave a tinkers cuss for the life of a person, in any civilised country back then. You might want to reduce the parameters of your barbaric also disgusting, inhumane acts. You do the crime, you know the consequences, you pay the price. No mercy, that is for a God to give.

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"I may not believe in what you say, however I will defend unto death your right to say it". Attributed to Voltaire. Freedom of speech a right we must regain.

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Lord Herbert

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Re: The Bali 9's two main players soon to be shot
Reply #51 - Jan 17^th, 2015 at 1:19pm

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 17^th, 2015 at 12:10pm:

that's a bit unreasonable don't you think not to mention that every other country is worse.

It's not a sporting event. How Australia rates with other countries is totally irrelevant.

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 17^th, 2015 at 12:10pm:

How do you inspect EVERYTHING coming into the country. search every container, open every box, pull apart everything?

Our agents would get aboard at the ports of departure, and with sniffer dogs and 'wands' that detect certain vapours spend the entire trip searching at their leisure.

Containers should by law have a plug fitted near their roofs which would be removed momentarily while the 'wand' is inserted into the container to detect any suspicious odors.

This is all basic commonsense.

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 17^th, 2015 at 12:10pm:

random searches get some results but are mainly there to demonstrate that there really IS a risk of being caught.

This doesn't stop the bulk suppliers, and the ones who get caught here in Australia receive the sort of sentences that make the risks worthwhile.

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 17^th, 2015 at 12:10pm:

I agree we need more effort, but to claim we are not doing anything is silly.

We need a government that is serious about stopping the drugs trade.

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greggerypeccary

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Re: The Bali 9's two main players soon to be shot
Reply #52 - Jan 17^th, 2015 at 2:27pm

nasus wrote on Jan 17^th, 2015 at 12:53pm:

Just so I understand what you have written, it is OK for the people whom I won't name in Iraq and Syria to cut the throat of hostages. Get someone son to hold a pistol to a captives head and put a bullet in the back of their skull, or to take captives in certain other countries, including Mexico and if ransoms aren't paid, or for some other reason a hostage taker can kill them, KEEPING in mind all these people whom are executed or murdered have committed NO crime, no sin. People can be executed for drawing a cartoon and for any other small indiscretion. BUT governments are not allowed to execute prisoners who have been found guilty of some horrendous crime? I have got that right then?

Yes, you've got that right.

There's no need to lower ourselves to their barbaric level.

There are people out there who rape, as well. Are you OK with governments using rape as a punishment, or is it just killing that gets you excited?

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greggerypeccary Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 138171 Gender:	Re: The Bali 9's two main players soon to be shot Reply #53 - Jan 17^th, 2015 at 2:32pm Lord Herbert wrote on Jan 17^th, 2015 at 1:19pm: We need a government that is serious about stopping the drugs trade. Why would any government be serious about stopping the drugs trade? Think about it.
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ian Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 9451	Re: The Bali 9's two main players soon to be shot Reply #54 - Jan 17^th, 2015 at 3:25pm I might splash out for this one, Bollinger perhaps.
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nasus

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Re: The Bali 9's two main players soon to be shot
Reply #55 - Jan 17^th, 2015 at 5:01pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 17^th, 2015 at 2:27pm:

nasus wrote on Jan 17^th, 2015 at 12:53pm:

Just so I understand what you have written, it is OK for the people whom I won't name in Iraq and Syria to cut the throat of hostages. Get someone son to hold a pistol to a captives head and put a bullet in the back of their skull, or to take captives in certain other countries, including Mexico and if ransoms aren't paid, or for some other reason a hostage taker can kill them, KEEPING in mind all these people whom are executed or murdered have committed NO crime, no sin. People can be executed for drawing a cartoon and for any other small indiscretion. BUT governments are not allowed to execute prisoners who have been found guilty of some horrendous crime? I have got that right then?

Yes, you've got that right.
There's no need to lower ourselves to their barbaric level.
There are people out there who rape, as well. Are you OK with governments using rape as a punishment, or is it just killing that gets you excited?

Lower ourselves to what?????? are we up there in some cloud, or part of humanity. Lower ourselves, who the bloody hell is "ourselves"""""? Some elitist troglodytes who dare not venture farther from their front door than the mail box.
Lower Ourselves to their barbaric level, still trying to get my head around that sentence. We who send people to parts of the world to do, whatever they do. We who with "the blessing of the UN" (the idiots) that's the UN, wage war on sovereign countries, invade their shore and do whatever we do. Then, what the heck.
Now, our/my government using rape as a punishment, Sir, you need to stop smoking whatever it is you smoke, please never infer that MY government uses rape as a punishment. Killing excite me, no, does rape excite me no!
Justice excites me, no not what the courts set out, that is the legal system, justice is something else.

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"I may not believe in what you say, however I will defend unto death your right to say it". Attributed to Voltaire. Freedom of speech a right we must regain.

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Grappler Truth Teller Feller

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Re: The Bali 9's two main players soon to be shot
Reply #56 - Jan 17^th, 2015 at 9:10pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 17^th, 2015 at 2:32pm:

Lord Herbert wrote on Jan 17^th, 2015 at 1:19pm:

We need a government that is serious about stopping the drugs trade.

Why would any government be serious about stopping the drugs trade?

Think about it.

Absolutely correct. Governments by and large do not wish to cut off any underground culture such as drug smuggling etc - for the simple reason that it offers them an excuse not to offer to the many a fair chance, and also offers to them the chance to have a set of 'Usual Suspects' to pick on and 'prove' their mettle as a 'government'.

Cat's Cradle...... Kurt Vonnegut Jnr.....

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Dnarever

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Re: The Bali 9's two main players soon to be shot
Reply #57 - Jan 17^th, 2015 at 9:26pm

cods wrote on Jan 16^th, 2015 at 9:22pm:

Dnarever wrote on Jan 16^th, 2015 at 4:10pm:

We can only hope that the AFP are happy with themselves.

og here we go good old dna.. never blames the culprit..its always someone elses problem...so you think had they come back here like you hoped..

they would be back on the streets in 6 months if that....and doing what they obviously would have still been doing had they not been caught... yeah we sure know whos side you are on..

of course as long as it isnt someone you know dying from these drugs.... who really cares.. Roll Eyes

.

they should have b een arrested here where we give them a slap on the wrist we know. Angry

they would be back on the streets in 6 months .......they should have b een arrested here where we give them a slap on the wrist

The penalty for importing a marketable quantity of heroin into Australia is $550,000 fine and up to 25 years in prison. The average sentence given is about 8 years with about 10% going away for over 10 years. this would have been at the higher end.

The penalty for importing a commercial quantity is $825,000 fine and a sentence of up to life in prison.

This is a little more than a slap on the wrist.

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Lord Herbert

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Re: The Bali 9's two main players soon to be shot
Reply #58 - Jan 18^th, 2015 at 5:49am

Dnarever wrote on Jan 17^th, 2015 at 9:26pm:

The penalty for importing a marketable quantity of heroin into Australia is $550,000 fine and up to 25 years in prison. The average sentence given is about 8 years with about 10% going away for over 10 years. this would have been at the higher end.

The penalty for importing a commercial quantity is $825,000 fine and a sentence of up to life in prison.

This is a little more than a slap on the wrist.

Thank you for this highly entertaining trip into The Twilight Zone, Dna.

But ... Now for the reality:

link

"(ANZSOC: Australian Bureau of Statistics, 2011) for illicit drug offences. ... The average aggregate sentence for dealing or trafficking amphetamines was 39.8 months, with an average ... Keywords: illicit drugs, amphetamines, penalty, prison, sentence length ..... reflect the actual minimum time spent in custody, as offenders"

link

I repeat ... There is nothing more than a very token and reluctant effort by Australian government authorities and our criminal courts to deal with drugs crime in this country.

It's why the Bali 9 knew that all they had to do was make landfall on Australian soil and the penalty if caught would make the risk worthwhile to become rich overnight.

Our government and judiciary are the Silent Partners in the drugs trade for making it so attractive as a Risk Venture enterprise.

Successive Australian governments no more want to deal with the drugs trade than they do with clamping down on our Muslim Ghetto Community and sanitising it with some hardline rules.

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Dnarever

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Re: The Bali 9's two main players soon to be shot
Reply #59 - Jan 18^th, 2015 at 9:06am

Lord Herbert wrote on Jan 18^th, 2015 at 5:49am:

Dnarever wrote on Jan 17^th, 2015 at 9:26pm:

The penalty for importing a marketable quantity of heroin into Australia is $550,000 fine and up to 25 years in prison. The average sentence given is about 8 years with about 10% going away for over 10 years. this would have been at the higher end.

The penalty for importing a commercial quantity is $825,000 fine and a sentence of up to life in prison.

This is a little more than a slap on the wrist.

Thank you for this highly entertaining trip into The Twilight Zone, Dna.

But ... Now for the reality:

link

"(ANZSOC: Australian Bureau of Statistics, 2011) for illicit drug offences. ... The average aggregate sentence for dealing or trafficking amphetamines was 39.8 months, with an average ... Keywords: illicit drugs, amphetamines, penalty, prison, sentence length ..... reflect the actual minimum time spent in custody, as offenders"

link

I repeat ... There is nothing more than a very token and reluctant effort by Australian government authorities and our criminal courts to deal with drugs crime in this country.

It's why the Bali 9 knew that all they had to do was make landfall on Australian soil and the penalty if caught would make the risk worthwhile to become rich overnight.

Our government and judiciary are the Silent Partners in the drugs trade for making it so attractive as a Risk Venture enterprise.

Successive Australian governments no more want to deal with the drugs trade than they do with clamping down on our Muslim Ghetto Community and sanitising it with some hardline rules.

Herb - you Victorian numbers are irrelevant as they were flying into Sydney and the amphetamines data is also irrelevant as they were not importing this drug. It is worth noting however that the NSW penalties for amphetamines were substantially more severe than the old Vic numbers showing that for the group on this topic the penalty would be higher still.

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