Australian Politics Forum - Lying Abbott

longweekend58

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Re: Lying Abbott - Medicare is affordable
Reply #15 - Jan 18^th, 2015 at 7:20am

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Jan 17^th, 2015 at 8:22pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 17^th, 2015 at 7:32pm:

the quote was 'healthcare costs are dropping'

that's not even in the same postcode as 'fed govt spending on health is dropping'

accuracy with words can make a huge difference in outcome as the two above TOTALLY DIFFERENT statements make clear,

Healthcare costs in total are dropping, as explained that cost increase for total healthcare was 1.5% and in real terms is a decline. Did you forget how to read? Or were you doing your rounding again?

good grief... are you really suggesting that healthcare costs are dropping? Are you really that gullible? And based on a govt CONTRIBUTION level drop?

you'd believe anything. I can understand George saying this because he is a stupid persons idead of stupid. But you are not.

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sir prince duke alevine

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Re: Lying Abbott - Medicare is affordable
Reply #16 - Jan 18^th, 2015 at 9:46am

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 18^th, 2015 at 7:20am:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Jan 17^th, 2015 at 8:22pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 17^th, 2015 at 7:32pm:

the quote was 'healthcare costs are dropping'

that's not even in the same postcode as 'fed govt spending on health is dropping'

accuracy with words can make a huge difference in outcome as the two above TOTALLY DIFFERENT statements make clear,

Healthcare costs in total are dropping, as explained that cost increase for total healthcare was 1.5% and in real terms is a decline. Did you forget how to read? Or were you doing your rounding again?

good grief... are you really suggesting that healthcare costs are dropping? Are you really that gullible? And based on a govt CONTRIBUTION level drop?

you'd believe anything. I can understand George saying this because he is a stupid persons idead of stupid. But you are not.

So I should instead believe a government minister who is mounting an ideological argument and providing no evidentiary basis? Right.

And of course healthcare costs increase, hence we look at them on a real terms basis. And based off that determine whether the costs are sustainable. Which these reports have done and determined so. In stark contradiction to the idiot mob in government who are just blabbering uncontrollably.

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Swagman Gold Member Offline Beware of cheap imitations...... Posts: 15095 Illawarra NSW Gender:	Re: Lying Abbott - Medicare is affordable Reply #17 - Jan 18^th, 2015 at 9:53am Labor sustain Medicare with debt when in Govt. Is compounding debt sustainable?
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John Smith Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 75097 Gender:	Re: Lying Abbott - Medicare is affordable Reply #18 - Jan 18^th, 2015 at 9:59am Swagman wrote on Jan 18^th, 2015 at 9:53am: Labor sustain Medicare with debt when in Govt. Is compounding debt sustainable? they don't need to ... cut the perks to those that don't need them and their is more than enough money to pay for medicare for everyone
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sir prince duke alevine

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Re: Lying Abbott - Medicare is affordable
Reply #19 - Jan 18^th, 2015 at 10:00am

Swagman wrote on Jan 18^th, 2015 at 9:53am:

Labor sustain Medicare with debt when in Govt.

Is compounding debt sustainable?

So Medicare is the reason we are in debt?

Id suggest it's because of

Family tax benefit nonsense
Capital gains tax reductions
Negative gearing subsidies
Paid parental leave payment by government
No tax on super contributions > 100,000 a year
Fringe benefit tax
Low corporate taxation
Diesel rebates for Gina

They have engaged themselves in a hated year long debate about Medicare, claiming the $1 billion they may save at the cost of people's health will somehow restore the budget to a good shape, and remove the structural problems within it.

There is only a one word assessment that can be made about this government: idiots.

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John Smith Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 75097 Gender:	Re: Lying Abbott - Medicare is affordable Reply #20 - Jan 18^th, 2015 at 10:04am wrong Alevine, those things are sustainable, it's medicare that is unaffordable
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sir prince duke alevine

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Re: Lying Abbott - Medicare is affordable
Reply #21 - Jan 18^th, 2015 at 10:11am

John Smith wrote on Jan 18^th, 2015 at 10:04am:

wrong Alevine, those things are sustainable, it's medicare that is unaffordable Cheesy

Yes, and not to mention that we also know this government can save $5 billion just by looking at the inefficiencies of running Medicare, but instead focus on cutting the actual service to people. Because how dare people see a gp.

What a bunch of arse sniffing, flea infested, rabid m0rons.

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Bam

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Re: Lying Abbott - Medicare is affordable
Reply #22 - Jan 18^th, 2015 at 10:17am

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Jan 18^th, 2015 at 1:01am:

One way to ensure enough funding for Medicare is to stop paying millionaires a rebate for private health insurance. Or just end paying people on 150,000 $15 a fortnight for family tax benefits. You know, remove nonsense ex Howard bullcrap.

Or stop paying rebates for private health insurance altogether. The fastest-growing area of health expenditure is the private health insurance rebate, tripling in 15 years. Why should this be quarantined from cuts?

At the very least a razor gang should be looking closely at the rebate. 30% rebate? Out come the razor ... slice ... the rebate is now 25%, saving about $700 million a year.

All this rebate does is fatten the profits of the private health insurance industry. The private health insurance industry has become fat and bloated on taxpayer-funded largesse. It needs to become leaner and more efficient. Abolishing the rebate would produce a net saving of about $2 billion a year.

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You are not entitled to your opinion. You are only entitled to hold opinions that you can defend through sound, reasoned argument.

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Swagman

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Re: Lying Abbott - Medicare is affordable
Reply #23 - Jan 18^th, 2015 at 10:23am

Here we go again.

source:

Quote:

[Wayne Swan Intergeneration report 2010]Australia’s population is ageing (Chart 1). The proportion of working age people is projected to fall, with only 2.7 people of working age to support each Australian aged 65 years and over by 2050 (compared to 5 working aged people per aged person today and 7.5 in 1970).

Less taxpayers to pay for greater welfare and health expenses.

Labor's own report shows current levels of public expenditure is unsustainable without massive taxation increases.

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sir prince duke alevine

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Re: Lying Abbott - Medicare is affordable
Reply #24 - Jan 18^th, 2015 at 10:28am

Swagman wrote on Jan 18^th, 2015 at 10:23am:

Here we go again.

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b76/timbo2530/Agingpop.jpg

source:

Quote:

[Wayne Swan Intergeneration report 2010]Australia’s population is ageing (Chart 1). The proportion of working age people is projected to fall, with only 2.7 people of working age to support each Australian aged 65 years and over by 2050 (compared to 5 working aged people per aged person today and 7.5 in 1970).

Less taxpayers to pay for greater welfare and health expenses.

Labor's own report shows current levels of public expenditure is unsustainable without massive taxation increases.

How does that refute what I said before or even suggest that Medicare needs to be slashed and burned? Are you suggesting it may be a government attempt at reducing the average life expectancy to drop the cost to them of paying pensions?

Here's a better way: introduce the ability for people to loan money from the goverent against their assets to pay for their retirement. Bang, you'll slash pension costs immediately.

But how dare we not fund the inheritance of the wealthy.

Or, another simple cut: Cut expenditure to private sxhools, which we KNOW has been a dismal failure in its original stated aims.

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sir prince duke alevine

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Re: Lying Abbott - Medicare is affordable
Reply #25 - Jan 18^th, 2015 at 10:30am

Bam wrote on Jan 18^th, 2015 at 10:17am:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Jan 18^th, 2015 at 1:01am:

One way to ensure enough funding for Medicare is to stop paying millionaires a rebate for private health insurance. Or just end paying people on 150,000 $15 a fortnight for family tax benefits. You know, remove nonsense ex Howard bullcrap.

Or stop paying rebates for private health insurance altogether. The fastest-growing area of health expenditure is the private health insurance rebate, tripling in 15 years. Why should this be quarantined from cuts?

At the very least a razor gang should be looking closely at the rebate. 30% rebate? Out come the razor ... slice ... the rebate is now 25%, saving about $700 million a year.

All this rebate does is fatten the profits of the private health insurance industry. The private health insurance industry has become fat and bloated on taxpayer-funded largesse. It needs to become leaner and more efficient. Abolishing the rebate would produce a net saving of about $2 billion a year.

This government has no balls.

One would think that a government that is on the ropes should gamble with big reforms, as typically big reforms pay off at the polling booth. But this one is completely lacking any ambition. It's as if they are simple intent on destroying.

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Bam

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Re: Lying Abbott - Medicare is affordable
Reply #26 - Jan 18^th, 2015 at 10:39am

Swagman wrote on Jan 18^th, 2015 at 10:23am:

Less taxpayers to pay for greater welfare and health expenses.

Labor's own report shows current levels of public expenditure is unsustainable without massive taxation increases.

Paul Keating saw this problem coming, 30 years ago. Keating introduced compulsory superannuation to bring down pension costs.

The idiots in the Coalition have consistently opposed compulsory superannuation and have not increased the compulsory threshold, not even once, despite being in office for half the time it has been in existence.

We are now paying the price for the Coalition's inaction.

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You are not entitled to your opinion. You are only entitled to hold opinions that you can defend through sound, reasoned argument.

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sir prince duke alevine

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Re: Lying Abbott - Medicare is affordable
Reply #27 - Jan 18^th, 2015 at 10:44am

Bam wrote on Jan 18^th, 2015 at 10:39am:

Swagman wrote on Jan 18^th, 2015 at 10:23am:

Less taxpayers to pay for greater welfare and health expenses.

Labor's own report shows current levels of public expenditure is unsustainable without massive taxation increases.

Paul Keating saw this problem coming, 30 years ago. Keating introduced compulsory superannuation to bring down pension costs in the future of 30 years ago.

The idiots in the Coalition have consistently opposed compulsory superannuation and have not increased the compulsory threshold, not even once, despite being in office for half the time it has been in existence.

We are now paying the price for the Coalition's inaction.

Of course, because a much better approach is to reduce life expectancy by slowly destroying Medicare.

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Bam

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Re: Lying Abbott - Medicare is affordable
Reply #28 - Jan 18^th, 2015 at 10:54am

Swagman wrote on Jan 18^th, 2015 at 9:53am:

Labor sustain Medicare with debt when in Govt.

Is compounding debt sustainable?

This argument is inaccurate. The reality is different. All government expenditure is funded out of consolidated revenue with appropriation bills in accordance with the Constitution. Consolidated revenue includes government bonds (the so-called "debt") but these bonds are not the main source of government revenue.

It is therefore inaccurate to point at one area of expenditure and say "that is funded with debt" while ignoring two realities: (1) debt isn't the main source of government revenue, and (2) all government expenditure is funded out of the same source of funds.

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You are not entitled to your opinion. You are only entitled to hold opinions that you can defend through sound, reasoned argument.

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Swagman

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Re: Lying Abbott - Medicare is affordable
Reply #29 - Jan 18^th, 2015 at 11:31am

Bam wrote on Jan 18^th, 2015 at 10:39am:

Swagman wrote on Jan 18^th, 2015 at 10:23am:

Less taxpayers to pay for greater welfare and health expenses.

Labor's own report shows current levels of public expenditure is unsustainable without massive taxation increases.

Paul Keating saw this problem coming, 30 years ago. Keating introduced compulsory superannuation to bring down pension costs.

The idiots in the Coalition have consistently opposed compulsory superannuation and have not increased the compulsory threshold, not even once, despite being in office for half the time it has been in existence.

We are now paying the price for the Coalition's inaction.

The Reaper also wanted a GST to broaden the tax base to assist countering the aging of the population demographic and then hypocritically and idiotically campaigned against one to get one last grasp at political power.

We are now paying the price for Labor's hypocrisy and perpetual over expending.

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