Australian Politics Forum - knives are out for Abbott

Armchair_Politician

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Re: knives are out for Abbott
Reply #60 - Jan 20^th, 2015 at 12:02pm

Bam wrote on Jan 20^th, 2015 at 9:03am:

cods wrote on Jan 20^th, 2015 at 8:21am:

I dont blame Abbott for this..

I blame the senate..

they have stopped him from doing almost everything he said he would.... so how can you blame something on a lib govt when he is still stuck with what Labor was doing...because he cannot change an ything..

Cods, blaming the Senate is just Liberal party rubbish.

A good leader would acknowledge that the Senate wouldn't allow their more ambitious policies to be put into law. A good leader wouldn't waste the time of the Parliament on futile legislative endeavours.

Howard, Rudd and Gillard all had this in common. If a bill didn't have a chance of passing the Parliament, they usually didn't bother.

Abbott does not. He has put forth several proposals that were blocked in the Senate. He has tried to do too much. Crash through or crash.

If the Senate is blocking too many bills, Abbott has the option of calling a double dissolution election to resolve the deadlock, provided that DD triggers exist of sufficient importance. This isn't the case; therefore the Senate isn't as obstructionist as the Liberals and their rusted-on supporters claim.

If there are DD triggers, Abbott has the option of calling a DD election. He won't, because he is trailing in the polls. He is an incompetent and mendacious Prime Minister who doesn't deserve another chance and the majority of voters know this. He's gone, the clock is ticking. Only time will tell whether it is his own party who knifes him or the voters delivering retribution at the next election.

Blaming the senate, which includes ALP senators blocking savings measures they themselves advocated prior to the election, is definitely NOT rubbish. Especially when you have the likes of Lambie, who has vowed to block all legislation over one issue that affects very few Australians and PUP, which is disintegrating by the minute under the leadership of an egotistical nutjob who didn't even attend his party's campaign launch in QLD and another senator who was elected with around 0.5% of the vote!

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Scott Morrison DID wipe the floor with Bull Shitten!!!

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St George of the Garden

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Re: knives are out for Abbott
Reply #61 - Jan 20^th, 2015 at 12:07pm

Oh come on, destroying Medicare, throwing young unemployed off poverty–level NewStart for 6 months in every year, none of this mentioned in the election campaign and you blame the SENATE?

Blame Abbott is more like it! THAT is why the knives are out for Abbott! If Newman loses the Qld election Abbott will not survive February as PM and nor should he!

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Dsmithy70

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Re: knives are out for Abbott
Reply #62 - Jan 20^th, 2015 at 12:19pm

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 20^th, 2015 at 11:49am:

Dsmithy70 wrote on Jan 20^th, 2015 at 11:17am:

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 20^th, 2015 at 11:10am:

Dsmithy70 wrote on Jan 20^th, 2015 at 10:48am:

Apparently the senate was doing it's job when combining with Tones & blocking bad policy such as means testing the PHR & policies like the Mining Tax.

Now according to Cods & Mr Weekend its not doing its job by blocking policies that place a greater burden on our young,sick & old.

Go Figure who pays the piper??

if you want to establish principles by which the senate should behave then go ahead. But the two polices you just quoted were election promise breaches.

so what is your preferred senate ethics? Please enlighten us.

I am happy with the way it is now, an independent house of review.

Good policy whether popular or not, articulated & argued well will pass, crap with foot stomping & tantrums won't.

If all else fails a government that actually felt strongly enough about a particular reform being necessary would go to a DD.

Is higher education reform important enough to risk power?
What about co payments?
Or perhaps cutting welfare?
We are told these reforms are necessary but it seems they can be cast aside when it becomes "All Too Hard"

Is anything important enough for Tones to stick to his word?

now you are just being intentionally stupid!

No, plenty of contentious policy has passed through the Australian Senate.

Or to be more specific plenty of UNPOPULAR policy has passed through the Australian Senate.

Probably the most unpopular & contentious was from the bloke you are talking about with others i.e GST

Then of course there's Qantas,Combank,Telstra sales & a mirriade of other policies unpopular but argued & negotiated well that have passed by governments of both flavours.

Face it if you think Gillard was incompetent, you must cry yourself to sleep out of frustration & embarrassment with those that you have to support here daily.

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REBELLION is not what most people think it is.
REBELLION is when you turn off the TV & start educating & thinking for yourself.
Gavin Nascimento

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longweekend58

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Re: knives are out for Abbott
Reply #63 - Jan 20^th, 2015 at 12:37pm

Dsmithy70 wrote on Jan 20^th, 2015 at 12:19pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 20^th, 2015 at 11:49am:

Dsmithy70 wrote on Jan 20^th, 2015 at 11:17am:

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 20^th, 2015 at 11:10am:

Dsmithy70 wrote on Jan 20^th, 2015 at 10:48am:

Apparently the senate was doing it's job when combining with Tones & blocking bad policy such as means testing the PHR & policies like the Mining Tax.

Now according to Cods & Mr Weekend its not doing its job by blocking policies that place a greater burden on our young,sick & old.

Go Figure who pays the piper??

if you want to establish principles by which the senate should behave then go ahead. But the two polices you just quoted were election promise breaches.

so what is your preferred senate ethics? Please enlighten us.

I am happy with the way it is now, an independent house of review.

Good policy whether popular or not, articulated & argued well will pass, crap with foot stomping & tantrums won't.

If all else fails a government that actually felt strongly enough about a particular reform being necessary would go to a DD.

Is higher education reform important enough to risk power?
What about co payments?
Or perhaps cutting welfare?
We are told these reforms are necessary but it seems they can be cast aside when it becomes "All Too Hard"

Is anything important enough for Tones to stick to his word?

now you are just being intentionally stupid!

No, plenty of contentious policy has passed through the Australian Senate.

Or to be more specific plenty of UNPOPULAR policy has passed through the Australian Senate.

Probably the most unpopular & contentious was from the bloke you are talking about with others i.e GST

Then of course there's Qantas,Combank,Telstra sales & a mirriade of other policies unpopular but argued & negotiated well that have passed by governments of both flavours.

Face it if you think Gillard was incompetent, you must cry yourself to sleep out of frustration & embarrassment with those that you have to support here daily.

and every single one of those contentious issues was put thru a senate with the Democrats controlling the balance of power. this was a party that actually sought to make governments fulfil their promises (until they changed and were subsequently thrown out) and with negotiation and compromise allowed govts to actually govern. That is nothing like the current situation where labor votes agains most things, Greens vote against everything (not a new thing I grant) and the independents control things. except since when did PUP vote on the basis of good or bad? No one even knows how they think or even if they do or just vote as the Fat Buffoon orders them to.

I support an actual independent house of review but we've never really had one. When was the last time you heard of a senate voting for a measure that is opposed to THEIR policies but that they think is mandated by voters or a good idea? WorkChoices... thrown out using Liberal senate votes. other than that.... NOTHING.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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Dsmithy70

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Re: knives are out for Abbott
Reply #64 - Jan 20^th, 2015 at 12:50pm

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 20^th, 2015 at 12:37pm:

(until they changed and were subsequently thrown out)

Meg passing the GST sealed there fate, although she thought she negotiated a fair deal Mr & Mrs average did not.

Yes I think the Democrats are sorely missed by both parties, then again they only have themselves to blame for the rise of fringe dwellers like PUP.

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REBELLION is not what most people think it is.
REBELLION is when you turn off the TV & start educating & thinking for yourself.
Gavin Nascimento

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longweekend58

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Re: knives are out for Abbott
Reply #65 - Jan 20^th, 2015 at 2:36pm

Dsmithy70 wrote on Jan 20^th, 2015 at 12:50pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 20^th, 2015 at 12:37pm:

(until they changed and were subsequently thrown out)

Meg passing the GST sealed there fate, although she thought she negotiated a fair deal Mr & Mrs average did not.

Yes I think the Democrats are sorely missed by both parties, then again they only have themselves to blame for the rise of fringe dwellers like PUP.

and there is the flaw in your argument. What the democrats ended up doing was fair and reasonable. Rather than simply oppose a policy promised in and election that was won, they negotiated and delivered what they and others think was an improved result. can you image what would happen now? Do you think there is any chance the Greens would negotiate? they vote on their own platform, no matter what. Labor opposes virtually everything.

so yes, there I a desperate need for a party that returns us to the 'keep the bastards honest' state whereby an incumbent govt will never get its own unimpeded way but has a chance to negotiate at all times.

wanna start a 'keep em honest' party? The easist thing is that you don't need any policies other than a promise to make sure legislation is better and that govts keep their word. That way you don't have to be hindered by voting on your own policy lines and allows voters the chance to get their wish expressed in legislation but act as a brake against abuse of power.

Natasha Spot-remover ruined a once great party by taking it to the left and trying to be a party in its own right. Now I get to drive past the Democrats former head office in Adelaide which is now demolished and remains an unwanted empty block. A better metaphor for the Democrats could not be found.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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John Smith Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 74360 Gender:	Re: knives are out for Abbott Reply #66 - Jan 20^th, 2015 at 2:54pm longweekend58 wrote on Jan 20^th, 2015 at 2:36pm: What the democrats ended up doing was fair and reasonable it is not fair and reasonable to do the opposite after an election of what you said before the election ... thats why the democrats are history. They promised to NEVER support the GST and they did.
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Bam Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 21905 Gender:	Re: knives are out for Abbott Reply #67 - Jan 20^th, 2015 at 3:07pm sir prince duke alevine wrote on Jan 20^th, 2015 at 11:55am: What good policy has been presented by Abbott and not passed?
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longweekend58

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Re: knives are out for Abbott
Reply #68 - Jan 20^th, 2015 at 3:20pm

John Smith wrote on Jan 20^th, 2015 at 2:54pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 20^th, 2015 at 2:36pm:

What the democrats ended up doing was fair and reasonable

it is not fair and reasonable to do the opposite after an election of what you said before the election ... thats why the democrats are history. They promised to NEVER support the GST and they did.

The original promise of the GST was to keep the bastards honest ie to ensure govts held to their promises. when they abandoned that they disappeared very quickly.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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sir prince duke alevine Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 23619 Gender:	Re: knives are out for Abbott Reply #69 - Jan 20^th, 2015 at 3:32pm Bam wrote on Jan 20^th, 2015 at 3:07pm: sir prince duke alevine wrote on Jan 20^th, 2015 at 11:55am: What good policy has been presented by Abbott and not passed? Yes, sounds like Longie is slowy getting some sense back. He is admitting Tony is incompetent in another thread too!
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longweekend58

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Re: knives are out for Abbott
Reply #70 - Jan 20^th, 2015 at 3:44pm

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Jan 20^th, 2015 at 3:32pm:

Bam wrote on Jan 20^th, 2015 at 3:07pm:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Jan 20^th, 2015 at 11:55am:

What good policy has been presented by Abbott and not passed?

Yes, sounds like Longie is slowy getting some sense back. He is admitting Tony is incompetent in another thread too!

even a simpleton should realise that 'good' is a subjective term, not that there is any chance you will understand the true meaning of any of those words since LIE escapes you.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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sir prince duke alevine

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Re: knives are out for Abbott
Reply #71 - Jan 20^th, 2015 at 3:49pm

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 20^th, 2015 at 3:44pm:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Jan 20^th, 2015 at 3:32pm:

Bam wrote on Jan 20^th, 2015 at 3:07pm:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Jan 20^th, 2015 at 11:55am:

What good policy has been presented by Abbott and not passed?

Yes, sounds like Longie is slowy getting some sense back. He is admitting Tony is incompetent in another thread too!

even a simpleton should realise that 'good' is a subjective term, not that there is any chance you will understand the true meaning of any of those words since LIE escapes you.

so alll you have to offer is some blabber but no actual example of what YOU THINK is a good policy? Grin

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Disclaimer for Mothra per POST so it is forever acknowledged: Saying 'Islam' or 'Muslims' doesn't mean ALL muslims. This does not target individual muslims who's opinion I am not aware of.

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John Smith

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Re: knives are out for Abbott
Reply #72 - Jan 20^th, 2015 at 4:01pm

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 20^th, 2015 at 3:20pm:

John Smith wrote on Jan 20^th, 2015 at 2:54pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 20^th, 2015 at 2:36pm:

What the democrats ended up doing was fair and reasonable

it is not fair and reasonable to do the opposite after an election of what you said before the election ... thats why the democrats are history. They promised to NEVER support the GST and they did.

The original promise of the GST was to keep the bastards honest ie to ensure govts held to their promises. when they abandoned that they disappeared very quickly.

soo you acknowledge that they failed to keep Howard Honest? Grin

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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St George of the Garden Gold Member Offline http://tinyurl.com/n 3o8m2x Posts: 9809 Gender:	Re: knives are out for Abbott Reply #73 - Jan 20^th, 2015 at 4:21pm “Honest John” was said in the same way as Brandis said “Lying Rhodent.” Nobody could keep “Honest John” honest
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Aussie Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 38580 Gender:	Re: knives are out for Abbott Reply #74 - Jan 20^th, 2015 at 4:23pm Okay everyone. Relax. An oracle has spoken! Quote: Ignore all the calls for a change in Leadership of the Coalition. Won't happen, unless they take a vote in the Party Room which is most unlikely. Who'd a thunk that, wot? Bloody amazing stuff!
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