Australian Politics Forum - Reformed Left offers new hope in Greece

St George of the Garden

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Reformed Left offers new hope in Greece
Jan 26^th, 2015 at 4:17am

A reformed Left offers new hope in Greece:

Quote:

That’s only one of the many (almost) impossible things that will have to be done before breakfast by a Syriza government. But there is no alternative. In the five years of deep crisis, with false starts and mistakes, divisions and diversions, the Greek left has managed to push back the threat of fascism, to build self-help networks for a broken society, to sketch a new political narrative for Greece and for Europe, and to create a modern party that’s about to win an election. All politics is local, but solidarity has no borders. In the tough negotiations ahead, Greece will need the support of its neighbours, politicians and citizens as it pushes for debt relief, an end to austerity and a different future for Europe.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jan/23/greece-change-syriza-greek-...

A superhuman task awaits Syriza after Sundays election, the years of austerity imposed by Germany has closed shops everywhere, the mad, the rough sleepers not even noticed any more. Graft, bribery, tax evasion all those reforms must be made as well as fix the economy!

Maybe we should send them Tony Abbott? Grin

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« Last Edit: Jan 26^th, 2015 at 5:38pm by St George of the Garden »

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Ex Dame Pansi

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Re: Reformed Left offers new hope in Greece
Reply #1 - Jan 26^th, 2015 at 7:38am

St George of the Garden wrote on Jan 26^th, 2015 at 4:17am:

A reformed Left offers new hope in Greece:

Quote:

That’s only one of the many (almost) impossible things that will have to be done before breakfast by a Syriza government. But there is no alternative. In the five years of deep crisis, with false starts and mistakes, divisions and diversions, the Greek left has managed to push back the threat of fascism, to build self-help networks for a broken society, to sketch a new political narrative for Greece and for Europe, and to create a modern party that’s about to win an election. All politics is local, but solidarity has no borders. In the tough negotiations ahead, Greece will need the support of its neighbours, politicians and citizens as it pushes for debt relief, an end to austerity and a different future for Europe.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jan/23/greece-change-syriza-greek-...

A superhuman task awaits Syriza after this Sundays election, the years of austerity imposed by Germany has closed shops everywhere, the mad, the rough sleepers not even noticed any more. Graft, bribery, tax evasion all those reforms must be made as well as fix the economy!

Maybe we should send them Tony Abbott? Grin

What a cruel thought. They have enough problems to contend with, that would be the hair that broke the camels back.

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St George of the Garden Gold Member Offline http://tinyurl.com/n 3o8m2x Posts: 9809 Gender:	Re: Reformed Left offers new hope in Greece Reply #2 - Jan 26^th, 2015 at 7:57am The Greek population would rise at once to throw him out, eh? I’d say Tones may learn austerity doesn’t work but I doubt Tones would notice.
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ImSpartacus2 Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 6913	Re: Reformed Left offers new hope in Greece Reply #3 - Jan 26^th, 2015 at 8:08am Syriza call themselves socialists. I hope they are in fact. Lets see. The capitalist giant is swaying. Hopefully soon we'll see it come crashing down and replaced by economies for the people.
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Bam Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 21905 Gender:	Re: Reformed Left offers new hope in Greece Reply #4 - Jan 26^th, 2015 at 11:04am It is very promising that Syriza are planning to crack down on tax evasion, bribery and corruption. Tax evasion is so rampant in Greece that it is the main reason why they have difficulty balancing the budget.
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longweekend58

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Re: Reformed Left offers new hope in Greece
Reply #5 - Jan 26^th, 2015 at 12:11pm

Bam wrote on Jan 26^th, 2015 at 11:04am:

It is very promising that Syriza are planning to crack down on tax evasion, bribery and corruption. Tax evasion is so rampant in Greece that it is the main reason why they have difficulty balancing the budget.

exactly/ I read somewhere that as much as 30% of tax is avoided. It is a corrupt country - including its citizens - and needs not a political solution but a WORK ETHIC.

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Kat

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Re: Reformed Left offers new hope in Greece
Reply #6 - Jan 26^th, 2015 at 12:32pm

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 26^th, 2015 at 12:11pm:

Bam wrote on Jan 26^th, 2015 at 11:04am:

It is very promising that Syriza are planning to crack down on tax evasion, bribery and corruption. Tax evasion is so rampant in Greece that it is the main reason why they have difficulty balancing the budget.

exactly/ I read somewhere that as much as 30% of tax is avoided. It is a corrupt country - including its citizens - and needs not a political solution but a WORK ETHIC.

ROT!

A political solution (ie, a socialist government) is EXACTLY what's needed in Greece.

It's needed pretty effing desperately here too.

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teddybear

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Re: Reformed Left offers new hope in Greece
Reply #7 - Jan 26^th, 2015 at 12:37pm

Kat wrote on Jan 26^th, 2015 at 12:32pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 26^th, 2015 at 12:11pm:

Bam wrote on Jan 26^th, 2015 at 11:04am:

It is very promising that Syriza are planning to crack down on tax evasion, bribery and corruption. Tax evasion is so rampant in Greece that it is the main reason why they have difficulty balancing the budget.

exactly/ I read somewhere that as much as 30% of tax is avoided. It is a corrupt country - including its citizens - and needs not a political solution but a WORK ETHIC.

ROT!

A political solution (ie, a socialist government) is EXACTLY what's needed in Greece.

It's needed pretty effing desperately here too.

How would you know pussie cat? Grin

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ImSpartacus2

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Re: Reformed Left offers new hope in Greece
Reply #8 - Jan 26^th, 2015 at 3:43pm

teddybear wrote on Jan 26^th, 2015 at 12:37pm:

Kat wrote on Jan 26^th, 2015 at 12:32pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 26^th, 2015 at 12:11pm:

Bam wrote on Jan 26^th, 2015 at 11:04am:

It is very promising that Syriza are planning to crack down on tax evasion, bribery and corruption. Tax evasion is so rampant in Greece that it is the main reason why they have difficulty balancing the budget.

exactly/ I read somewhere that as much as 30% of tax is avoided. It is a corrupt country - including its citizens - and needs not a political solution but a WORK ETHIC.

ROT!

A political solution (ie, a socialist government) is EXACTLY what's needed in Greece.

It's needed pretty effing desperately here too.

How would you know pussie cat? Grin

Well Kat knows simply because its obvious. If you had been watching you would known too

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longweekend58

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Re: Reformed Left offers new hope in Greece
Reply #9 - Jan 26^th, 2015 at 3:57pm

ImSpartacus2 wrote on Jan 26^th, 2015 at 3:43pm:

teddybear wrote on Jan 26^th, 2015 at 12:37pm:

Kat wrote on Jan 26^th, 2015 at 12:32pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 26^th, 2015 at 12:11pm:

Bam wrote on Jan 26^th, 2015 at 11:04am:

It is very promising that Syriza are planning to crack down on tax evasion, bribery and corruption. Tax evasion is so rampant in Greece that it is the main reason why they have difficulty balancing the budget.

exactly/ I read somewhere that as much as 30% of tax is avoided. It is a corrupt country - including its citizens - and needs not a political solution but a WORK ETHIC.

ROT!

A political solution (ie, a socialist government) is EXACTLY what's needed in Greece.

It's needed pretty effing desperately here too.

How would you know pussie cat? Grin

Well Kat knows simply because its obvious. If you had been watching you would known too

you clearly don't know how good you have it here. IN Australia our 'problems' would be considered trivial by much of the country and our 'worst' would top their best but some considerable margin. Greece is a mess, a cot-case and an epic disaster. Few countries are even in their league and we are a long, long way away from it.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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perceptions_now

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Re: Reformed Left offers new hope in Greece
Reply #10 - Jan 26^th, 2015 at 4:17pm

I re-post the following here, as it is relevant -

perceptions_now wrote on Jan 26^th, 2015 at 11:55am:

Syriza could win outright majority as Greece rejects austerity

Greece's leftwing Syriza appeared on course to trounce the ruling conservatives in Sunday's snap election and could win the absolute majority it wants to fight international creditors' insistence on painful austerity measures.

Syriza was on course to win between 149-151 seats in the 300 seat parliament, with 36.5 percent of the vote, almost nine points ahead of the conservative New Democracy party of Prime Minister Antonis Samaras, according to interior ministry projections, based on a partial count of the vote.

His expected victory raises the prospect of an immediate standoff with German Chancellor Angela Merkel's government and could raise questions over distribution of the next tranche of more than 7 billion euros (5.2 billion pounds) in outstanding international aid Greece needs in the next few months.

Tsipras has promised to renegotiate a deal with the European Commission, European Central Bank and International Monetary Fund "troika" and write off much of Greece's 320 billion-euro debt, which at more than 175 percent of gross domestic product, is the world's second highest after Japan.

Greece, unable to tap the markets because of sky-high borrowing costs, has enough cash to meet its immediate funding needs for the next couple of months but it faces around 10 billion euros of debt repayments over the summer.

Without fresh cash, it will be unable to meet the payments, raising the spectre of an exit from the euro.

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2015/01/25/uk-greece-election-idUKKBN0KY0012015012...
=======================================================
A few observations -
1) So much for ruling Political Party's calling "Snap Elections"!
2) Who is in power in Greece at present won't make much difference.
3) Austerity has had a go in Greece AND FAILED!
4) Keynesian Stimulus has had a go in Japan, AND FAILED!
5) The Fact is the REAL SOURCE OF THE GREEK ECONOMIC PROBLEMS HAS IT S UNDERLYING BASIS IN ITS DEMOGRAPHICS!!!
6) The Greek Fertility rate went below 2.0 around 1982, which meant that Population Growth started to slow earlier than most other countries. The Greek Fertility rate is now one of the lowest, at around 1.30-1.40.
The last 40 years has seen substantial changes in the Population mix -
a) The 0–14 years section has gone from 25.4% in 1971, to 14.4% in 2011.
b) The 15–64 years section went from 63.7% in 1971, to 66.6% in 2011.
c) The +65 years section went from 10.9% in 1971, to 19% in 2011.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Greece
7) DEMOGRAPHICS IS THE UNDERLYING SOURCE OF ECONOMIC DEMAND/GROWTH and because Greece, like Japan, had an earlier cessation in its Population Growth, it also went negative on Economic Growth, earlier than many other nations, plus Greece is largely reliant elsewhere, for its supply of Energy & other Natural Resources!
8) Most other nations have similar issues, But there is a timelag, with Japan being the first affected, then others in Europe, China & believe it or not, even Australia will follow!

Sorry, I digress "a little", But the underlying thing is the Greek Economy is not going to recover, no matter which Political Party is in power and that will have ramifications.

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Sprintcyclist Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 40723 Gender:	Re: Reformed Left offers new hope in Greece Reply #11 - Jan 26^th, 2015 at 4:26pm perceptions - demographics aside, Greece was spending more than it made for too long.
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Swagman Gold Member Offline Beware of cheap imitations...... Posts: 15095 Illawarra NSW Gender:	Re: Reformed Left offers new hope in Greece Reply #12 - Jan 26^th, 2015 at 4:39pm Quote: Reformed Left offers new hope in Greece What is a "reformed leftist"? ....a Conservative?
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perceptions_now Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 11694 Perth WA Gender:	Re: Reformed Left offers new hope in Greece Reply #13 - Jan 26^th, 2015 at 4:39pm Sprintcyclist wrote on Jan 26^th, 2015 at 4:26pm: perceptions - demographics aside, Greece was spending more than it made for too long. I am aware that there are other issues, there usually are, BUT the basic/underlying issue is the Demographics!
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perceptions_now

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Re: Reformed Left offers new hope in Greece
Reply #14 - Jan 26^th, 2015 at 4:42pm

Swagman wrote on Jan 26^th, 2015 at 4:39pm:

What is a "reformed leftist"?

....a Conservative? Grin

Left or Right, won't make the difference, given the basics at play here, nor in Japan, nor in a few other countries now, now in many more countries, as the years roll on, particularly once the "rubber band snaps"!

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