Australian Politics Forum - Lessons from the Victorian Election Coalition Loss

Swagman

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Re: Lessons from the Victorian Election Coalition Loss
Reply #15 - Feb 3^rd, 2015 at 12:31pm

Kat wrote on Feb 3^rd, 2015 at 12:25pm:

Swagman wrote on Feb 3^rd, 2015 at 12:04pm:

St George of the Garden wrote on Feb 3^rd, 2015 at 11:43am:

The problem is the Lib policies, not the selling thereof.

.....tell that to the grandkids when they are choking on 50% marginal tax rates to pay you and and a large percentage of the population's aged care bills in 20 years time

Still no idea, I see.

Why do you keep on with this BS?

Ahh Kat old petal, old bean, you really need to see an optometrist about that right eye of yours. You might get one that bulk bills too.

Favouring your left one all these years has made it damned difficult to see the truth....

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Doctor Jolly

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Re: Lessons from the Victorian Election Coalition Loss
Reply #16 - Feb 3^rd, 2015 at 12:38pm

Could the "selling of public assets" be the core problem.

In almost all cases of the government selling public assets, the people have had to pay more for the same service. The funds raised by those sales seems to just disappear.

The public have had enough. They see every "sale" as
1) The government taking the easy option over debt.
2) The cost of the service will rise.

The public have had enough. Enough of the government donors getting first dibs on public assets at low prices, then making the people pay through the nose for basic services.

Privatising electricity infrastructure will make electricity more expensive and less reliable. This is the overwhelming view, which history has proven.

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Dnarever Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 59402 Here Gender:	Re: Lessons from the Victorian Election Coalition Loss Reply #17 - Feb 3^rd, 2015 at 12:43pm Reading the OP it looks like they blamed anyone and everyone except for the elephant in the room at the time.
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Dnarever Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 59402 Here Gender:	Re: Lessons from the Victorian Election Coalition Loss Reply #18 - Feb 3^rd, 2015 at 12:47pm Swagman wrote on Feb 3^rd, 2015 at 9:31am: How dare they speak against the ochlocratic Collective... One day I will look that word up. Well maybe not doubt that it matters much.
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Bam

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Re: Lessons from the Victorian Election Coalition Loss
Reply #19 - Feb 3^rd, 2015 at 12:51pm

Swagman wrote on Feb 3^rd, 2015 at 12:04pm:

St George of the Garden wrote on Feb 3^rd, 2015 at 11:43am:

The problem is the Lib policies, not the selling thereof.

.....tell that to the grandkids when they are choking on 50% marginal tax rates to pay you and and a large percentage of the population's aged care bills in 20 years time

50%? Good, many people need a tax cut. 70% is just criminal.

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You are not entitled to your opinion. You are only entitled to hold opinions that you can defend through sound, reasoned argument.

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St George of the Garden

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Re: Lessons from the Victorian Election Coalition Loss
Reply #20 - Feb 3^rd, 2015 at 2:38pm

Swagman wrote on Feb 3^rd, 2015 at 12:04pm:

St George of the Garden wrote on Feb 3^rd, 2015 at 11:43am:

The problem is the Lib policies, not the selling thereof.

.....tell that to the grandkids when they are choking on 50% marginal tax rates to pay you and and a large percentage of the population's aged care bills in 20 years time

It is the LIB policies that will bring that about.

Time to remove the last of Howard’s profligate spending from the Budget, and remove a couple tax cuts.

Then increase NewStart from some of those savings.

Get rid of the FTAs, run out FTTH.

Grandkids will have a grand start to life.

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I want Muso as GMod. Bring back Muso!

Friends of the National Broadband Network

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ImSpartacus2

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Re: Lessons from the Victorian Election Coalition Loss
Reply #21 - Feb 3^rd, 2015 at 2:53pm

Swagman wrote on Feb 3^rd, 2015 at 12:04pm:

St George of the Garden wrote on Feb 3^rd, 2015 at 11:43am:

The problem is the Lib policies, not the selling thereof.

.....tell that to the grandkids when they are choking on 50% marginal tax rates to pay you and and a large percentage of the population's aged care bills in 20 years time

Oh dear. But your quite happy to destroy your grandkids earth rather then adjust your fossil fuel burning habits. Again, as usual you and the business community make up any argument to advance your own self interests. Why is it that for every issue confronting this country You and the business community's solution for reform always starts with giving you some advantage or putting $$$$ in your pockets.

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ImSpartacus2

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Re: Lessons from the Victorian Election Coalition Loss
Reply #22 - Feb 3^rd, 2015 at 3:07pm

Doctor Jolly wrote on Feb 3^rd, 2015 at 12:38pm:

Could the "selling of public assets" be the core problem.

In almost all cases of the government selling public assets, the people have had to pay more for the same service. The funds raised by those sales seems to just disappear.

The public have had enough. They see every "sale" as
1) The government taking the easy option over debt.
2) The cost of the service will rise.

The public have had enough. Enough of the government donors getting first dibs on public assets at low prices, then making the people pay through the nose for basic services.

Privatising electricity infrastructure will make electricity more expensive and less reliable. This is the overwhelming view, which history has proven.

Dont forget the revenue stream we lose as a result of selling these assets, which eventually puts more pressure on us to pay more in tax to make up the shortfall in addition to the higher prices we have to contend with. The politicians know this is happening but they're selling these assets to their mates. In canberra the Belconnen Mall was a real $$$$ spinner to the govt. When Hawke got in power in the 80s he immediately put it up for tender and his mate Frank Lowy (of westfield fame) bought it. The first thing Lowy did was raise rents. Many of the small businesses revolted but it was no use and ultimately many lost everything and those who stayed passed on the increased rents to their customers. Since then the govt loost all the revenue from Belconnen Mall. At every turn we lost as a consequence of the sale of the Belconnen mall. Time this theft stopped and these white collar thieves repaid the proceeds of their crime.

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Swagman

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Re: Lessons from the Victorian Election Coalition Loss
Reply #23 - Feb 3^rd, 2015 at 5:37pm

Dnarever wrote on Feb 3^rd, 2015 at 12:47pm:

Swagman wrote on Feb 3^rd, 2015 at 9:31am:

How dare they speak against the ochlocratic Collective...

One day I will look that word up.

Well maybe not doubt that it matters much.

As one of the tyrants I suppose it wouldn't matter much....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ochlocracy
Quote:

Ochlocracy

(Greek: ὀχλοκρατία, okhlokratía; Latin: ochlocratia) or mob rule is the rule of government by mob or a mass of people, or the intimidation of legitimate authorities. As a pejorative for majoritarianism, it is akin to the Latin phrase mobile vulgus meaning "the fickle crowd", from which the English term "mob" was originally derived in the 1680s.

Ochlocracy ("rule of the general populace") is democracy ("rule of the people") spoiled by demagoguery, "tyranny of the majority", and the rule of passion over reason, just as oligarchy ("rule of a few") is aristocracy ("rule of the best") spoiled by corruption, and tyranny is monarchy spoiled by lack of virtue. Ochlocracy is synonymous in meaning and usage to the modern, informal term "mobocracy", which emerged from a much more recent colloquial etymology

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Kat

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Re: Lessons from the Victorian Election Coalition Loss
Reply #24 - Feb 3^rd, 2015 at 5:53pm

ImSpartacus2 wrote on Feb 3^rd, 2015 at 3:07pm:

Doctor Jolly wrote on Feb 3^rd, 2015 at 12:38pm:

Could the "selling of public assets" be the core problem.

In almost all cases of the government selling public assets, the people have had to pay more for the same service. The funds raised by those sales seems to just disappear.

The public have had enough. They see every "sale" as
1) The government taking the easy option over debt.
2) The cost of the service will rise.

The public have had enough. Enough of the government donors getting first dibs on public assets at low prices, then making the people pay through the nose for basic services.

Privatising electricity infrastructure will make electricity more expensive and less reliable. This is the overwhelming view, which history has proven.

Dont forget the revenue stream we lose as a result of selling these assets, which eventually puts more pressure on us to pay more in tax to make up the shortfall in addition to the higher prices we have to contend with. The politicians know this is happening but they're selling these assets to their mates. In canberra the Belconnen Mall was a real $$$$ spinner to the govt. When Hawke got in power in the 80s he immediately put it up for tender and his mate Frank Lowy (of westfield fame) bought it. The first thing Lowy did was raise rents. Many of the small businesses revolted but it was no use and ultimately many lost everything and those who stayed passed on the increased rents to their customers. Since then the govt loost all the revenue from Belconnen Mall. At every turn we lost as a consequence of the sale of the Belconnen mall. Time this theft stopped and these white collar thieves repaid the proceeds of their crime.

J. Lambie ripped it up B. Joyce on Q&A last night on just this issue...

It's the old 'Golden Goose' fairy-tale brought to life.

In the story, the guy who owned the goose would then sell the eggs
the goose laid, for a steady stream of cash.

But he got greedy and wanted all the eggs at once so killed the goose
and cut it open to get the eggs out. Of course there were none.

So, no more golden eggs, hello poverty.

Selling public assets is EXACTLY the same thing.

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Swagman

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Re: Lessons from the Victorian Election Coalition Loss
Reply #25 - Feb 3^rd, 2015 at 5:59pm

ImSpartacus2 wrote on Feb 3^rd, 2015 at 3:07pm:

Dont forget the revenue stream we lose as a result of selling these assets, which eventually puts more pressure on us to pay more in tax to make up the shortfall in addition to the higher prices we have to contend with

Which is a load of crap otherwise no businesses would ever be sold.

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ImSpartacus2

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Re: Lessons from the Victorian Election Coalition Loss
Reply #26 - Feb 3^rd, 2015 at 7:35pm

Swagman wrote on Feb 3^rd, 2015 at 5:59pm:

ImSpartacus2 wrote on Feb 3^rd, 2015 at 3:07pm:

Dont forget the revenue stream we lose as a result of selling these assets, which eventually puts more pressure on us to pay more in tax to make up the shortfall in addition to the higher prices we have to contend with

Which is a load of crap otherwise no businesses would ever be sold.

You need to be clearer. Are you saying that when the libs sell a govt asset like Telstra thereafter the govt doesnt lose the money Telstra was paying into consolidated revenue every year from the money it made each year?

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Swagman

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Re: Lessons from the Victorian Election Coalition Loss
Reply #27 - Feb 3^rd, 2015 at 8:45pm

ImSpartacus2 wrote on Feb 3^rd, 2015 at 7:35pm:

Swagman wrote on Feb 3^rd, 2015 at 5:59pm:

ImSpartacus2 wrote on Feb 3^rd, 2015 at 3:07pm:

Dont forget the revenue stream we lose as a result of selling these assets, which eventually puts more pressure on us to pay more in tax to make up the shortfall in addition to the higher prices we have to contend with

Which is a load of crap otherwise no businesses would ever be sold.

You need to be clearer. Are you saying that when the libs sell a govt asset like Telstra thereafter the govt doesnt lose the money Telstra was paying into consolidated revenue every year from the money it made each year?

Or the billions of dollars in interest payments that flow out of consolidated revenue to pay for Government debt?

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ImSpartacus2

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Re: Lessons from the Victorian Election Coalition Loss
Reply #28 - Feb 3^rd, 2015 at 9:17pm

Swagman wrote on Feb 3^rd, 2015 at 8:45pm:

ImSpartacus2 wrote on Feb 3^rd, 2015 at 7:35pm:

Swagman wrote on Feb 3^rd, 2015 at 5:59pm:

ImSpartacus2 wrote on Feb 3^rd, 2015 at 3:07pm:

Dont forget the revenue stream we lose as a result of selling these assets, which eventually puts more pressure on us to pay more in tax to make up the shortfall in addition to the higher prices we have to contend with

Which is a load of crap otherwise no businesses would ever be sold.

You need to be clearer. Are you saying that when the libs sell a govt asset like Telstra thereafter the govt doesnt lose the money Telstra was paying into consolidated revenue every year from the money it made each year?

Or the billions of dollars in interest payments that flow out of consolidated revenue to pay for Government debt?

Whats that got to do with anything. Are you going to answer the question or not. It is a simple question, your just being asked to answer it directly and honestly.

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Postmodern Trendoid III Gold Member Offline Posts: 10266 Gender:	Re: Lessons from the Victorian Election Coalition Loss Reply #29 - Feb 4^th, 2015 at 6:16am Just print money. Do away with businesses. This is progress.
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