polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 13^th, 2015 at 11:29am:





gandalf,

You talk about *MY* [Yadda's] interpretation of ISLAM





But Koran 9.29 - CLEARLY - calls for the enslavement or death of those non-moslems who reject ISLAM's authority over their lives.

Presumably this enslavement or death of those non-moslems must be undertaken/attempted by moslems ?

With the sanction of ISLAM's god, Allah ?


gandalf,

When was Koran 9.29 abrogated by Allah/Mohammed, as a command to a moslem [from Allah] that has no current validity ?

"Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. "
Koran 9.29




.




Koran 60:4 calls for "enmity and hatred for ever" towards those non-moslems who reject ISLAM's authority over their lives.

gandalf,

When was Koran 60:4 abrogated by Allah/Mohammed, as a command to a moslem [from Allah] that has no current validity ?

"There is for you an excellent example (to follow) in Abraham and those with him, when they said to their people: "We are clear of you and of whatever ye worship besides Allah: we have rejected you, and there has arisen, between us and you, enmity and hatred for ever,- unless ye believe in Allah and Him alone"....."
Koran 60:4




.



Koran 2.98 describes those non-moslems who reject ISLAM's authority over their lives as Allah's enemies, and presumably, also the enemies of all moslems.

gandalf,

When was Koran 2.98 and Koran 60.1 abrogated by Allah/Mohammed, as commands to a moslem [from Allah] that have no current validity ?


"....Lo! Allah is an enemy to those who reject Faith."
Koran 2.98


"O ye who believe! Take not my enemies and yours as friends (or protectors),- offering them (your) love,..."
Koran 60.1

Sprintcyclist wrote on Feb 13^th, 2015 at 12:49pm:
Jebus would be proud of you

Gandalf's beliefs:

- there is no capital punishment for 'secularism' in Islamic Law - in fact there is no capital punishment in Islam at all - according to the only source muslims should be using - the Quran.

- there is no Islamic earthly punishment for crimes of thought - including apostasy and blasphemy

- Islam emphasises personal responsibilities between individuals and God Almighty - not enforcement of "Islamic Law" by a temporal government run by mortal men

- The "Islamic legal basis" for these claims is the Quran itself - a document that is 99% about the personal, spiritual journey an individual muslim should pursue to obtain enlightenment - which includes being nice to people and (very importantly) not forcing your views on to others.

- I hold with the greatest contempt the invoking of alleged ahadith that quotes Muhammad as saying "above all else, make sure you are a royal front bottoms to all non-muslims" - and other such teachings.

Gandalf's personal beliefs couldn't be a more polar opposite to the muslim beliefs as alleged by Yadda. And the great irony here is that it is Yadda who is the hateful and intolerant one - and would happilly see the institutionalised persecution of people for their personal beliefs. In truth, he is the very caricature that he lectures against day in day out.

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 13^th, 2015 at 2:18pm:



gandalf,

You calmly make these claims [above].

Claims which are wholly unsubstantiated - by you.




So gandalf, i offer you the opportunity to redeem yourself;

Please tell all of us, where are the Koran passages,

"the only source muslims should be using"

, which can actually give credibility to your assertions ?




Lets talk about.......



The factor which is lacking from almost every publicly issued communication emanating from a moslem community which is resident within a host NON-moslem nation.



Dictionary;
credible = = able to be believed; convincing.



e.g.


     - The Muslim Council of Britain





.






THE KORAN PREACHES PEACE AND BROTHERLY LOVE......honest.             


"....Lo! Allah is an enemy to those who reject Faith."
Koran 2.98


"....those who reject Allah have no protector."
Koran 47.008
v. 8-11


"...And why should ye not fight in the cause of Allah and of [i.e. for] those who, being weak, are ill-treated (and oppressed)?...Those who believe fight in the cause of Allah, and those who reject Faith Fight in the cause of Evil: So fight ye against the friends of Satan:.."
Koran 4.74-76


"Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain:...."
Koran 9.111





ISLAMIC LAW....

"Ibn 'Umar related that the Messenger of Allah, upon whom be peace, said, "I have been ordered to kill the people until they testify that there is no god except Allah, and that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, and they establish prayer and pay the zakah. If they do that, their blood and wealth are protected from me save by the rights of Islam. Their reckoning will be with Allah." (Related by al-Bukhari and Muslim.) "
fiqhussunnah/fus1_06


ISLAMIC LAW....

"Ibn 'Abbas reported that the Prophet said: "The bare essence of Islam and the basics of the religion are three [acts], upon which Islam has been established. Whoever leaves one of them becomes an unbeliever and his blood may legally be spilled. [The acts are:] Testifying that there is no God except Allah, the obligatory prayers, and the fast of Ramadan."...."
fiqhussunnah/#3.110

n.b.
"Whoever......becomes an unbeliever.....his blood may legally be spilled."





THE HADITH....

- DEAD.
hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #004.052.260

moses wrote on Feb 13^th, 2015 at 3:54pm:


Yes most other religions don't have it in their doctrine for present day consumption.

Since islam was written by an angry arab it thrives on the killing teaching making it part and parcel unlike most other religions. When a muslim murders people he gleefully quotes the quran in context. When others murder somebody any religious quotes are usually out of context and they are just hiding behind the religions banner. In islam its perfectly ok to slay the kafir. It takes sick minds to think thats normal but thats the world we live in.

Funny how the police doing the actual investigation haven't yet made a determination to whether or not it was a hate crime.

But as always, Baron's got it all figured. No need for this pesky evidence thing when we're talking about muslim victims. Like I said, any instance of non-Ahmadi muslims being attacked either a) didn't happen or b) can be explained away as not related to religion. Always absolutely never ever on stilts.

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 14^th, 2015 at 12:17am:



REally?  Where does Christianity advocate the killing on non-Christians, Brain?