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God Does Not Exist. End of Story.... (Read 84895 times)
vikaryan
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Re: God Does Not Exist. End of Story....
Reply #345 - Apr 2nd, 2015 at 9:42am
 
vikaryan wrote on Apr 2nd, 2015 at 9:10am:
Tufts Prof Thomas Abowd: Jews Colonial Usurpers in Jerusalem


Israel "has built a whole national mythology out of the City of David" in a "weaponization of myth," stated Israel-hating Tufts University professor Thomas Abowd on March 17 at Washington, DC's anti-Israel Jerusalem Fund think tank. Condemnation of "Israeli Colonial Racism" described in a Powerpoint presentation formed his lecture's central theme, which incongruously presented Jews as colonial usurpers in their own ancestral national homeland before an audience of about twenty.

http://www.campus-watch.org/article/id/14688


ARCHAEOLOGY, ICONOGRAPHY, AND THE RECREATION OF THE PAST IN IRON AGE HOLY LANDS


by P Berger


The invocation of a persecuted past to legitimate conquest has been used by numerous nations that have seized land while rehearsing the myth of escaping from persecution. (Schwartz alludes to such diverse examples as the Nazis reciting their injuries in World War I, and Europeans fleeing persecution abroad while seizing land from Native Americans.) Though we now know that the Joshuan conquest story is only a fantasy, that narrative has provided religious justification for political actions that have resulted in displacement and destruction of other peoples, of laying claim to a land that had belonged to others, and of conducting a "conquest under the banner of divine will."


http://booksandjournals.brillonline.com/content/journals/10.1163/156852902320948330?crawler=true

Quote:
"we need solid archeological evidence" - your comment.

It seems that much of the Bible is fiction. Read "The Bible Unearthed", written by the Israeli
archaeologist Israel Finkelstein in cooperation with Neil Silberman. Finkelstein is the head of the Tel Aviv University Institute of Archaeology; Neil Silberman is a historian trained at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem and contributing editor for Archaeology Magazine.Here are a few excerpts from a book review:

"A case in point is his study of the biblical account of the battle of Jericho. The notion of the historicity of the Joshuan conquests had seen some support among scholars until fairly recently. But Finkelstein and his school have conˇfirmed that the destruction implicit in the conquest text never occurred. No evidence exists that Canaanite cities, located on the coastal plain and in the valleys, were destroyed at or near the time of the supposed conquest.

Finkelstein’s views regarding the biblical account of the monarchy of David and Solomon is that it is totally incorrect. In the Bible, this period represents
the epitome of the political, economic, and military might of the people of Israel in the ancient world. According to I Kings 4:21-24, the Davidic empire extended from the Euphrates River to Gaza. But as Finkelstein notes, excavations have revealed only three inscriptions in the whole of the Middle East alluding even vaguely to Israel or the House of David. In one of them, dated 1208 BCE, the name Israel is mentioned in a document that reads, “Israel is desolated, its seed is not [i.e., its seed is destroyed].” Finkelstein concludes that David and Solomon were nothing but “mountain chieftains,” and that Judah had only poor tiny villages at the time. Thus the notion of a heroic ancient king with a vast
kingdom is a theological construct formulated by those who set the story down many centuries after the supposed events occurred."

This book contains a very chilling message for the authors of political Zionism and other practitioners of ethnic cleansing (like the Americans):

"The invocation of a persecuted past to legitimate conquest has been used by numerous nations that have seized land while rehearsing the myth of escaping from persecution (such diverse examples include the Nazis reciting their injuries in World War I, and Europeans ¸ citing persecution while seizing land from Native
Americans.) Though we now know that the Joshuan conquest story is only a fantasy, that narrative has provided religious justiˇfication for political actions that have resulted in displacement and destruction of
other peoples, of laying claim to a land that had belonged to others, and of conducting a “conquest under the banner of divine will”. It is highly unfortunate that the biblical narrative shows no ethical accountability:

“and when the Lord your God gives them over to you, and you defeat them, then you must utterly destroy them; you shall make no covenant with them, and show no mercy to them” (Deuteronomy 7:2)."

The Bible has a very uncompromising message. Like Israel in the 20th century, this violent message was used to justify genocide and ethnic cleansing in South America by the Spanish conquistadors.


http://www.economist.com/comment/2136394#comment-2136394
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We fight a holy war against the fat and the corrupt and the sinful and the unbelieving!
 
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vikaryan
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Re: God Does Not Exist. End of Story....
Reply #346 - Apr 2nd, 2015 at 10:35am
 
Quote:
The invocation of a persecuted past to legitimate conquest has been used by numerous nations that have seized land while rehearsing the myth of escaping from persecution. (Schwartz alludes to such diverse examples as the Nazis reciting their injuries in World War I, and Europeans fleeing persecution abroad while seizing land from Native Americans.) Though we now know that the Joshuan conquest story is only a fantasy, that narrative has provided religious justification for political actions that have resulted in displacement and destruction of other peoples, of laying claim to a land that had belonged to others, and of conducting a "conquest under the banner of divine will."  Schwartz decries the fact that the biblical narrative shows no ethical accountability: "and when the Lord your God gives them over to you, and you defeat them, then you must utterly destroy them; you shall make no covenant with them, and show no mercy to them" (Deuteronomy 7:2).

Millions of people imagine that the Bible relates to and serves as a commentary on their immediate lives. That is positive when the texts inveigh strongly against social abuses, or when the prophets rail against those who oppress and bid for charity toward the widow, the orphan, and the poor. But when the biblical narrative deals with the Chosen People, the Us as opposed to Them, the ethical imperatives it espouses give way; it becomes the account of one people who inherit at the expense of another people.

ARCHAEOLOGY, ICONOGRAPHY, AND THE RECREATION OF THE PAST IN IRON AGE HOLY LANDS

Author: Pamela Berger
Source: Religion and the Arts, Volume 6, Issue 4, pages 499 – 506

http://faculty.ksu.edu.sa/archaeology/Publications/Rock%20Art/ARCHAEOLOGY%2c%20ICONOGRAPHY%2c%20AND%20THE%20RECREATION%20OF%20THE%20PAST%20IN%20IRON%20AGE%20HOLY%20LANDS.pdf


http://booksandjournals.brillonline.com/content/journals/10.1163/156852902320948330?crawler=true
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We fight a holy war against the fat and the corrupt and the sinful and the unbelieving!
 
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Soren
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Re: God Does Not Exist. End of Story....
Reply #347 - Apr 2nd, 2015 at 6:12pm
 
Amadd wrote on Apr 1st, 2015 at 10:22pm:
Soren wrote on Apr 1st, 2015 at 9:57am:
Amadd wrote on Mar 31st, 2015 at 9:30pm:
Quote:
You cannot be taken seriously. Dolphins? More highly evolved? You are mad.



Really Soren. The facetious point was that if you could ask a dolphin, maybe the dolphin would reply that humans are greedy idiots and are stuffing up the environment in the name of satisfying their animal lust for money and power.







Alas, they are mere animals, unable to think conceptually and to use abstract language.

You do not realise just how anthropocentric you really are in in your blind rush to denigrate humans.



Why are you taking a facetious comment so seriously?
Denigrating humans?  No, but I think we have a long way to go in many respects.






That sounds dangerously close to teleology with a value judgement - but evolution has no goal, yet we have a long way to go.

Tut tut.


I merely point this out to show that evolutionists like you do not think in terms of evolution but in terms of values, purposes and goals.

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Amadd
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Re: God Does Not Exist. End of Story....
Reply #348 - Apr 2nd, 2015 at 10:41pm
 
Soren wrote on Apr 2nd, 2015 at 6:12pm:
Amadd wrote on Apr 1st, 2015 at 10:22pm:
Soren wrote on Apr 1st, 2015 at 9:57am:
Amadd wrote on Mar 31st, 2015 at 9:30pm:
Quote:
You cannot be taken seriously. Dolphins? More highly evolved? You are mad.



Really Soren. The facetious point was that if you could ask a dolphin, maybe the dolphin would reply that humans are greedy idiots and are stuffing up the environment in the name of satisfying their animal lust for money and power.







Alas, they are mere animals, unable to think conceptually and to use abstract language.

You do not realise just how anthropocentric you really are in in your blind rush to denigrate humans.



Why are you taking a facetious comment so seriously?
Denigrating humans?  No, but I think we have a long way to go in many respects.






That sounds dangerously close to teleology with a value judgement - but evolution has no goal, yet we have a long way to go.

Tut tut.


I merely point this out to show that evolutionists like you do not think in terms of evolution but in terms of values, purposes and goals.



Well I looked that one up and I still say, yes we have a long way to go. A long way to go to ensure that we are all on the same page in regards to things like protecting the planet, personal freedoms, truth, justice and the Australian way  Wink As for some specific goal of humanity, it's probably no different to the germs that we have learned to kill in order to allow ourselves to prosper.

Yes people think in terms of values, purposes and goals, but evolution doesn't think; it enables adaptation. IMO, we exist in the human state because of circumstance, pure chance if you like.
Highly probable chance considering the vastness of the universe as we (some of us) now realize it.

There is so much out there that could snuff out humanity, our entire world or even our solar system at the blink of an eye.
But before you label me a fatalist, I would like to bless you with that label because you tend to not want to move on from the fictional. As Vikaryan has pointed out, biblical history is largely fable.....downright stinking lies if you ask me. We should be able to accept that by now.

Quote:
So how 'bout your view? Do you consider the world to be around 7000yrs old?
Do you think that god made man (specifically) in his likeness? In which case, there was no, and never will be further evolution (change) of the human species?







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« Last Edit: Apr 3rd, 2015 at 7:41am by Amadd »  
 
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vikaryan
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Re: God Does Not Exist. End of Story....
Reply #349 - Apr 4th, 2015 at 8:37am
 
religions are fairy stories for adults
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We fight a holy war against the fat and the corrupt and the sinful and the unbelieving!
 
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Soren
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Re: God Does Not Exist. End of Story....
Reply #350 - Apr 4th, 2015 at 12:14pm
 
Amadd wrote on Apr 2nd, 2015 at 10:41pm:
Yes people think in terms of values, purposes and goals, but evolution doesn't think; it enables adaptation. IMO, we exist in the human state because of circumstance, pure chance if you like.
Highly probable chance considering the vastness of the universe as we (some of us) now realize it.

There is so much out there that could snuff out humanity, our entire world or even our solar system at the blink of an eye.




What is the evolutionary advantage of values, purpose and goals - and if they have any,. why are there no other species chancing on these advantages?

And why does it matter, in evolutionary terms, if humanity is snuffed out. We are products of chance, not of value, you say, so what's the loss?


Again, you sdo not actually think in terms of evolution but in tems of religious values.

Amadd wrote on Apr 2nd, 2015 at 10:41pm:
But before you label me a fatalist, I would like to bless you with that label because you tend to not want to move on from the fictional. As Vikaryan has pointed out, biblical history is largely fable.....downright stinking lies if you ask me. We should be able to accept that by now.





This is one of the stupidest arguments and no wonder vikaryan is so keen on it. No ethics, morality, personal relationships, self-perception, self-value, no human emotion and interaction is based on anything but non-scientific stories, tales, fables, parables, insights and judgement, call them what you want. One thing they are not - scientific, objectively verifiable, evolution-compliant.





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Soren
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Re: God Does Not Exist. End of Story....
Reply #351 - Apr 4th, 2015 at 3:37pm
 
Stratos wrote on Mar 31st, 2015 at 7:11pm:
Soren wrote on Mar 31st, 2015 at 7:05pm:
It is objectively better, more highly evolved, whatever you want to label it, to be a human being than being a worm even if we could not survive underground eating dead matter and shitting high quality soil.


You miss my point Soren.

If you were teleported under the ground, a worm would survive when you would not.  The worm would pass on genetic material while the worm would slowly devour yours.  A worm is better adapted to living under the ground in dirt, while you are not.

Levels of evolution is a pretty meaningless discussion, as evolution does not have a goal.

But try to have a conversation about evolution with a worm.

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Stratos
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Re: God Does Not Exist. End of Story....
Reply #352 - Apr 4th, 2015 at 9:25pm
 
Soren wrote on Apr 4th, 2015 at 12:14pm:
And why does it matter, in evolutionary terms, if humanity is snuffed out. We are products of chance, not of value, you say, so what's the loss?


Evolution isn't chance.  You really don't understand the process.

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Pete Waldo wrote on Jan 15th, 2014 at 11:24pm:
Thus killing those Canaanite babies while they were still innocent, was a particularly merciful act
 
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Setanta
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Re: God Does Not Exist. End of Story....
Reply #353 - Apr 4th, 2015 at 10:01pm
 
Soren wrote on Apr 4th, 2015 at 3:37pm:
Stratos wrote on Mar 31st, 2015 at 7:11pm:
Soren wrote on Mar 31st, 2015 at 7:05pm:
It is objectively better, more highly evolved, whatever you want to label it, to be a human being than being a worm even if we could not survive underground eating dead matter and shitting high quality soil.


You miss my point Soren.

If you were teleported under the ground, a worm would survive when you would not.  The worm would pass on genetic material while the worm would slowly devour yours.  A worm is better adapted to living under the ground in dirt, while you are not.

Levels of evolution is a pretty meaningless discussion, as evolution does not have a goal.

But try to have a conversation about evolution with a worm.



Perhaps he is Soren, perhaps he is. Undecided
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Amadd
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Re: God Does Not Exist. End of Story....
Reply #354 - Apr 4th, 2015 at 11:23pm
 
Quote:
What is the evolutionary advantage of values, purpose and goals - and if they have any,. why are there no other species chancing on these advantages?

And why does it matter, in evolutionary terms, if humanity is snuffed out. We are products of chance, not of value, you say, so what's the loss?


Again, you sdo not actually think in terms of evolution but in tems of religious values.


Other species do exhibit what you would call morals and values. They have their own purpose and goals, although they act unconsciously.

Why is a product of chance not of value? If we value ourselves, the notion of a god that will magically solve problems for humanity will one day need to go by the wayside.



Quote:
This is one of the stupidest arguments and no wonder vikaryan is so keen on it. No ethics, morality, personal relationships, self-perception, self-value, no human emotion and interaction is based on anything but non-scientific stories, tales, fables, parables, insights and judgement, call them what you want. One thing they are not - scientific, objectively verifiable, evolution-compliant.


Hey, I don't care. As long as they don't try to pass off this fictional entity borne from the minds of ordinary men as fact. Shakespeare fiction contains humanity in a nutshell but the events are not real.

It's ridiculous to say that an atheist cannot find any worth within the bible because they don't believe in an interventionist god. Everybody likes a good story. Myself, I'd prefer Stephen King; his parables and insights are a bit more up with the times, he doesn't ask me to donate any more than the price of his book and I'm under no obligation to believe that his monsters exist.

So how 'bout it Soren? Do you really believe that the earth is only 7000yrs old?

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« Last Edit: Apr 5th, 2015 at 6:31am by Amadd »  
 
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Amadd
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Re: God Does Not Exist. End of Story....
Reply #355 - Apr 5th, 2015 at 2:44pm
 
In the beginning, God made everything and said it was good.
Then he asked Adam, "Is there anything else that you could possibly want?"
Adam replied, "I would like a companian. I want somebody to celebrate with me when I'm
happy and console me when I'm sad. I want somebody to entertain me when I'm bored, to love me
always  and be a true soulmate to me."
"Adam, that will cost you an arm and a leg", said God.
Adam replied, "Oh well, what can I get for a rib?"

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Soren
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Re: God Does Not Exist. End of Story....
Reply #356 - Apr 5th, 2015 at 5:49pm
 
Amadd wrote on Apr 4th, 2015 at 11:23pm:
Quote:
What is the evolutionary advantage of values, purpose and goals - and if they have any,. why are there no other species chancing on these advantages?

And why does it matter, in evolutionary terms, if humanity is snuffed out. We are products of chance, not of value, you say, so what's the loss?


Again, you sdo not actually think in terms of evolution but in tems of religious values.


Other species do exhibit what you would call morals and values.

No they don't.

Ethics and morals are rooted in freedom, nothing else. They make sense only if you are free to choose. No animal is free. No lion can choose to go vegetarian.



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Amadd
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Mo

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Re: God Does Not Exist. End of Story....
Reply #357 - Apr 5th, 2015 at 7:54pm
 
Soren wrote on Apr 5th, 2015 at 5:49pm:
Amadd wrote on Apr 4th, 2015 at 11:23pm:
Quote:
What is the evolutionary advantage of values, purpose and goals - and if they have any,. why are there no other species chancing on these advantages?

And why does it matter, in evolutionary terms, if humanity is snuffed out. We are products of chance, not of value, you say, so what's the loss?


Again, you sdo not actually think in terms of evolution but in tems of religious values.


Other species do exhibit what you would call morals and values.

No they don't.

Ethics and morals are rooted in freedom, nothing else. They make sense only if you are free to choose. No animal is free. No lion can choose to go vegetarian.




I think primarily, ethics and morals are to do with the welfare of others.

Yes, some animals can and do choose to act for the good of others.
It's is an easy google to find information on this and I've witnessed plenty of examples myself personally.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/earth/wildlife/5373379/Animals-can-tell-right-fr...

Which is the guilty party?

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« Last Edit: Apr 5th, 2015 at 8:05pm by Amadd »  
 
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Soren
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Re: God Does Not Exist. End of Story....
Reply #358 - Apr 5th, 2015 at 8:15pm
 
Amadd wrote on Apr 5th, 2015 at 7:54pm:
Soren wrote on Apr 5th, 2015 at 5:49pm:
Amadd wrote on Apr 4th, 2015 at 11:23pm:
Quote:
What is the evolutionary advantage of values, purpose and goals - and if they have any,. why are there no other species chancing on these advantages?

And why does it matter, in evolutionary terms, if humanity is snuffed out. We are products of chance, not of value, you say, so what's the loss?


Again, you sdo not actually think in terms of evolution but in tems of religious values.


Other species do exhibit what you would call morals and values.

No they don't.

Ethics and morals are rooted in freedom, nothing else. They make sense only if you are free to choose. No animal is free. No lion can choose to go vegetarian.




I think primarily, ethics and morals are to do with the welfare of others.

Yes, some animals can and do choose to act for the good of others.
It's is an easy google to find information on this and I've witnessed plenty of examples myself personally.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/earth/wildlife/5373379/Animals-can-tell-right-fr...

Which is the guilty party?


...
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Amadd
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Mo

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Re: God Does Not Exist. End of Story....
Reply #359 - Apr 5th, 2015 at 8:40pm
 
Which one are you Soren? Fluffy or Ginger?  Grin
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