Australian Politics Forum - God Does Not Exist. End of Story....

Pho Huc Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 985 Victoria Gender:	Re: God Does Not Exist. End of Story.... Reply #555 - Aug 7^th, 2015 at 12:02am "if I can travel faster than light i can know all as a human" ? relativity X theology = insanity
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LifeOrDeath

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Re: God Does Not Exist. End of Story....
Reply #556 - Aug 7^th, 2015 at 12:10am

Pho Huc wrote on Aug 7^th, 2015 at 12:02am:

"if I can travel faster than light i can know all as a human" ?

relativity X theology = insanity

The statement ""if I can travel faster than light i can know all as a human" ?" contains no theology.

As usual you're not thinking Karnal. Lose the anger and free up some thought.

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There is no evidence of the existence of a muslim,mohammed,or quran until 60 years after mohammed was supposed to have died. Grin

Posting on islam just encourages them and is a waste of time.

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Pho Huc Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 985 Victoria Gender:	Re: God Does Not Exist. End of Story.... Reply #557 - Aug 7^th, 2015 at 12:24am I apologise if I am mistaken, theology may not be the best term. what school of thought would you use to describe omniscient consciousness? how do you connect omniscence and relativity?
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Stratos

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Re: God Does Not Exist. End of Story....
Reply #558 - Aug 7^th, 2015 at 7:37am

LifeOrDeath wrote on Aug 6^th, 2015 at 10:03pm:

So if you predestined yourself to hell it has nothing to do with God saying you were predestined to hell. He never made you do it.

Please read up on their doctrine on the elect, because you have described the exact opposite of it.

If I may Yadda for a second

Google- unconditional election

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Pete Waldo wrote on Jan 15^th, 2014 at 11:24pm:

Thus killing those Canaanite babies while they were still innocent, was a particularly merciful act

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Soren

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Re: God Does Not Exist. End of Story....
Reply #559 - Aug 7^th, 2015 at 8:31am

Stratos wrote on Aug 6^th, 2015 at 7:29pm:

Soren wrote on Aug 6^th, 2015 at 5:29pm:

God is Love and is loving, that is his central, abiding attribute.

Not according to a Calvanist he isn't, which was kind of my point.

Well, you need to duke it out with a Calvinist, then.

Christianity is not the same as Calvinism. Yes, there is a strong sense of interpretive unfolding in Christrianity (a conversation with God, if you like) and Calvinism and all the other doctrinal offshoots and developments are part of that. But I don't think there are a lot of Calvinists today who hold on to 16th century views on predestination.

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Lisa Jones

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Re: God Does Not Exist. End of Story....
Reply #560 - Aug 7^th, 2015 at 8:54am

Soren wrote on Aug 7^th, 2015 at 8:31am:

Stratos wrote on Aug 6^th, 2015 at 7:29pm:

Soren wrote on Aug 6^th, 2015 at 5:29pm:

God is Love and is loving, that is his central, abiding attribute.

Not according to a Calvanist he isn't, which was kind of my point.

Well, you need to duke it out with a Calvinist, then.

Christianity is not the same as Calvinism. Yes, there is a strong sense of interpretive unfolding in Christrianity (a conversation with God, if you like) and Calvinism and all the other doctrinal offshoots and developments are part of that. But I don't think there are a lot of Calvinists today who hold on to 16th century views on predestination.

I can assure you I'm certainly no Calvinist.

I am a Christian though.

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If I let myself be bought then I am no longer free.

HYPATIA - Greek philosopher, mathematician and astronomer (370 - 415)

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Pho Huc

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Re: God Does Not Exist. End of Story....
Reply #561 - Aug 7^th, 2015 at 11:09am

Stratos wrote on Aug 7^th, 2015 at 7:37am:

LifeOrDeath wrote on Aug 6^th, 2015 at 10:03pm:

So if you predestined yourself to hell it has nothing to do with God saying you were predestined to hell. He never made you do it.

Please read up on their doctrine on the elect, because you have described the exact opposite of it.

If I may Yadda for a second

Google- unconditional election

That really depends on your whether you are a creationist or not.

If you accept that God created us, our minds, the world we live in, is omnipotent and created the moral rules which we are expected to live by, Its pretty much totally his fault if we go to hell.
Just like firing a bullet from a gun, The bullet has no moral culpability.

If I annoy you WhyWhyWhy, its because I am fulfilling god's will Cheesy

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« Last Edit: Aug 7^th, 2015 at 11:20am by Pho Huc »

The law locks up the man who steals the goose from the common, but leaves the greater criminal loose who steals the common from the goose (convict saying)

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LifeOrDeath

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Re: God Does Not Exist. End of Story....
Reply #562 - Aug 7^th, 2015 at 11:20am

Lisa Jones wrote on Aug 7^th, 2015 at 8:54am:

Soren wrote on Aug 7^th, 2015 at 8:31am:

Stratos wrote on Aug 6^th, 2015 at 7:29pm:

Soren wrote on Aug 6^th, 2015 at 5:29pm:

God is Love and is loving, that is his central, abiding attribute.

Not according to a Calvanist he isn't, which was kind of my point.

Well, you need to duke it out with a Calvinist, then.

Christianity is not the same as Calvinism. Yes, there is a strong sense of interpretive unfolding in Christrianity (a conversation with God, if you like) and Calvinism and all the other doctrinal offshoots and developments are part of that. But I don't think there are a lot of Calvinists today who hold on to 16th century views on predestination.

I can assure you I'm certainly no Calvinist.

I am a Christian though.

Like hell you are.

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1429877606/315#315

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There is no evidence of the existence of a muslim,mohammed,or quran until 60 years after mohammed was supposed to have died. Grin

Posting on islam just encourages them and is a waste of time.

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LifeOrDeath

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Re: God Does Not Exist. End of Story....
Reply #563 - Aug 7^th, 2015 at 11:21am

Pho Huc wrote on Aug 7^th, 2015 at 11:09am:

Stratos wrote on Aug 7^th, 2015 at 7:37am:

LifeOrDeath wrote on Aug 6^th, 2015 at 10:03pm:

So if you predestined yourself to hell it has nothing to do with God saying you were predestined to hell. He never made you do it.

Please read up on their doctrine on the elect, because you have described the exact opposite of it.

If I may Yadda for a second

Google- unconditional election

That really depends on your whether you are a creationist or not.

If you accept that God created us, our minds, the world we live in, is omnipotent and created the moral rules which we are expected to live by, Its pretty much totally his fault if we go to hell.
Just like firing a bullet from a gun, The bullet has no moral culpability.

If I annoy you WhyWhyWhy, its because I am fulfilling god's will Cheesy

You don't annoy me Karnal you are just another troll here no biggy.

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There is no evidence of the existence of a muslim,mohammed,or quran until 60 years after mohammed was supposed to have died. Grin

Posting on islam just encourages them and is a waste of time.

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LifeOrDeath

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Re: God Does Not Exist. End of Story....
Reply #564 - Aug 7^th, 2015 at 11:57am

Stratos wrote on Aug 7^th, 2015 at 7:37am:

LifeOrDeath wrote on Aug 6^th, 2015 at 10:03pm:

So if you predestined yourself to hell it has nothing to do with God saying you were predestined to hell. He never made you do it.

Please read up on their doctrine on the elect, because you have described the exact opposite of it.

If I may Yadda for a second

Google- unconditional election

Unconditional election is a doctrine relating to Predestination within the reformed theology framework that in eternity past, before God created the world, he predestinated some people for salvation, the elect, and the others he left to continue in their sins and receive the just punishment, eternal damnation.

The definition 'the others he left to continue in their sins ' is incorrect. Both are choosing their destination by what they do. So him knowing all one can say yes some were predestined for eternal life 'the elect' if you will and others for 'eternal hell'. If you are trying to apply the notion that he sat there and said 'I will make a world, I will make a person who will post online who calls her id Lisa Jones and I will send her to hell' that is ludicrous. You are simplifying predestination way too much. You have two elements you need yo consider. Talking from mans perspective sure they only know this physical world and related physics. IE the creation. Without total knowledge so time and knowledge travels from left to right if you will. If you are a god and know all how you say things will appear totally different from mans perspective. Hence we come up with predestination in a simplistic form. If you are a God describing those that go to heaven or hell that you already know. It is totally feasible to convey that message in those words. From our simplistic perspective it appears as though he made one for heaven and one for hell. In a sense he did but it was the free choices those individuals made that predestined then not God. He just knows their predestination. There is no surprise here either from a God perspective he knew this before the earth creation either. It is just conveyed to us as humans.

Unfortunately we try to understand the mind/operation and concept of God with the limited knowledge (which is ever increasing) we have at one point in time from the physical world. So in one sense we are trying to understand something that would require us to be God to understand in another he tells us we just need faith in Him that he will look after us and save us from the sin we entered into as mankind. Which makes kinda sense.

That is probably why He sent the Holy Spirit to dwell inside believers entwined with their spirit so he can commune with man on the closest level confirming His existence and giving us the knowledge and mind and eyes of God, Rhema. Referring to the revelation received by followers when the Holy Spirit speaks to them via the spirit.

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There is no evidence of the existence of a muslim,mohammed,or quran until 60 years after mohammed was supposed to have died. Grin

Posting on islam just encourages them and is a waste of time.

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Pho Huc

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Re: God Does Not Exist. End of Story....
Reply #565 - Aug 7^th, 2015 at 12:33pm

LifeOrDeath wrote on Aug 7^th, 2015 at 11:20am:

Lisa Jones wrote on Aug 7^th, 2015 at 8:54am:

Soren wrote on Aug 7^th, 2015 at 8:31am:

Stratos wrote on Aug 6^th, 2015 at 7:29pm:

Soren wrote on Aug 6^th, 2015 at 5:29pm:

God is Love and is loving, that is his central, abiding attribute.

Not according to a Calvanist he isn't, which was kind of my point.

Well, you need to duke it out with a Calvinist, then.

Christianity is not the same as Calvinism. Yes, there is a strong sense of interpretive unfolding in Christrianity (a conversation with God, if you like) and Calvinism and all the other doctrinal offshoots and developments are part of that. But I don't think there are a lot of Calvinists today who hold on to 16th century views on predestination.

I can assure you I'm certainly no Calvinist.

I am a Christian though.

Like hell you are.

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1429877606/315#315

You and your hell obsession Roll Eyes

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The law locks up the man who steals the goose from the common, but leaves the greater criminal loose who steals the common from the goose (convict saying)

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Pho Huc

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Re: God Does Not Exist. End of Story....
Reply #566 - Aug 7^th, 2015 at 12:40pm

LifeOrDeath wrote on Aug 7^th, 2015 at 11:57am:

Stratos wrote on Aug 7^th, 2015 at 7:37am:

LifeOrDeath wrote on Aug 6^th, 2015 at 10:03pm:

So if you predestined yourself to hell it has nothing to do with God saying you were predestined to hell. He never made you do it.

Please read up on their doctrine on the elect, because you have described the exact opposite of it.

If I may Yadda for a second

Google- unconditional election

Unconditional election is a doctrine relating to Predestination within the reformed theology framework that in eternity past, before God created the world, he predestinated some people for salvation, the elect, and the others he left to continue in their sins and receive the just punishment, eternal damnation.

The definition 'the others he left to continue in their sins ' is incorrect. Both are choosing their destination by what they do. So him knowing all one can say yes some were predestined for eternal life 'the elect' if you will and others for 'eternal hell'. If you are trying to apply the notion that he sat there and said 'I will make a world, I will make a person who will post online who calls her id Lisa Jones and I will send her to hell' that is ludicrous. You are simplifying predestination way too much. You have two elements you need yo consider. Talking from mans perspective sure they only know this physical world and related physics. IE the creation. Without total knowledge so time and knowledge travels from left to right if you will. If you are a god and know all how you say things will appear totally different from mans perspective. Hence we come up with predestination in a simplistic form. If you are a God describing those that go to heaven or hell that you already know. It is totally feasible to convey that message in those words. From our simplistic perspective it appears as though he made one for heaven and one for hell. In a sense he did but it was the free choices those individuals made that predestined then not God. He just knows their predestination. There is no surprise here either from a God perspective he knew this before the earth creation either. It is just conveyed to us as humans.

Unfortunately we try to understand the mind/operation and concept of God with the limited knowledge (which is ever increasing) we have at one point in time from the physical world. So in one sense we are trying to understand something that would require us to be God to understand in another he tells us we just need faith in Him that he will look after us and save us from the sin we entered into as mankind. Which makes kinda sense.

That is probably why He sent the Holy Spirit to dwell inside believers entwined with their spirit so he can commune with man on the closest level confirming His existence and giving us the knowledge and mind and eyes of God, Rhema. Referring to the revelation received by followers when the Holy Spirit speaks to them via the spirit.

What you are trying explain is that we live in at the minimum a four dimension universe.

What you are failing to explain is how that allows the observation by an omnipotent sentience congruent with free will.

Why, please look at quantum uncertainty , heisenberg, bohr. scientists have actually figured out many of the things you consider mysteries . At least then your analogies wont contain so many fundamental flaws.

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The law locks up the man who steals the goose from the common, but leaves the greater criminal loose who steals the common from the goose (convict saying)

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LifeOrDeath Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 1548	Re: God Does Not Exist. End of Story.... Reply #567 - Aug 7^th, 2015 at 1:02pm Shhh Karnal adults are talking.
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Prime Minister for Canyons Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 26906 Canberra Gender:	Re: God Does Not Exist. End of Story.... Reply #568 - Aug 7^th, 2015 at 1:03pm God of the gaps mentality.
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Pho Huc Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 985 Victoria Gender:	Re: God Does Not Exist. End of Story.... Reply #569 - Aug 7^th, 2015 at 1:53pm Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Aug 7^th, 2015 at 1:03pm: God of the gaps mentality. ? clarification?
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