Australian Politics Forum - God Does Not Exist. End of Story....

John_Taverner

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Re: God Does Not Exist. End of Story....
Reply #600 - Aug 12^th, 2015 at 7:44pm

Pho Huc wrote on Aug 12^th, 2015 at 5:54pm:

John_Taverner wrote on Aug 12^th, 2015 at 5:26pm:

Raven wrote on Aug 12^th, 2015 at 1:58pm:

So does that mean that all those people that lived thousands of years before the Nazarene, and those who lived centuries after and had never heard of him, are now living in Heaven?

They're dead.

There only dead in our time. time is just a direction.

A one-way direction.

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Lisa Jones

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Re: God Does Not Exist. End of Story....
Reply #601 - Aug 12^th, 2015 at 8:01pm

John_Taverner wrote on Aug 12^th, 2015 at 7:39pm:

A God, but not from any established religion. I'll explain in the course of time.

I don't believe in the supernatural and I don't believe in life after death.

I worked that out by your previous posts in this topic.

You've got me perplexed...to say the least.

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If I let myself be bought then I am no longer free.

HYPATIA - Greek philosopher, mathematician and astronomer (370 - 415)

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Stratos Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 4725	Re: God Does Not Exist. End of Story.... Reply #602 - Aug 12^th, 2015 at 8:10pm Lisa Jones wrote on Aug 12^th, 2015 at 8:01pm: You've got me perplexed...to say the least. Look up "deism". It was fairly popular at one time.
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Lisa Jones

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Re: God Does Not Exist. End of Story....
Reply #603 - Aug 12^th, 2015 at 8:34pm

Stratos wrote on Aug 12^th, 2015 at 8:10pm:

Lisa Jones wrote on Aug 12^th, 2015 at 8:01pm:

You've got me perplexed...to say the least.

Look up "deism".

It was fairly popular at one time.

Yes!

I recall all that now.

In fact, I've just finished reading up on it a bit (thanks to wiki...I know lol).

Ohhhh dear.

Looks like some heavy arguments might be coming up in this topic Tongue

Damn...to think I've been trying so hard not to take OzPol seriously. Now that's all about to change thanks to you!

I'm very disappointed. Roll Eyes

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If I let myself be bought then I am no longer free.

HYPATIA - Greek philosopher, mathematician and astronomer (370 - 415)

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Pho Huc

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Re: God Does Not Exist. End of Story....
Reply #604 - Aug 12^th, 2015 at 9:28pm

John_Taverner wrote on Aug 12^th, 2015 at 7:44pm:

Pho Huc wrote on Aug 12^th, 2015 at 5:54pm:

John_Taverner wrote on Aug 12^th, 2015 at 5:26pm:

Raven wrote on Aug 12^th, 2015 at 1:58pm:

So does that mean that all those people that lived thousands of years before the Nazarene, and those who lived centuries after and had never heard of him, are now living in Heaven?

They're dead.

There only dead in our time. time is just a direction.

A one-way direction.

Only practically, not theoretically.

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The law locks up the man who steals the goose from the common, but leaves the greater criminal loose who steals the common from the goose (convict saying)

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John_Taverner

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Re: God Does Not Exist. End of Story....
Reply #605 - Aug 13^th, 2015 at 6:55am

Pho Huc wrote on Aug 12^th, 2015 at 9:28pm:

John_Taverner wrote on Aug 12^th, 2015 at 7:44pm:

Pho Huc wrote on Aug 12^th, 2015 at 5:54pm:

John_Taverner wrote on Aug 12^th, 2015 at 5:26pm:

Raven wrote on Aug 12^th, 2015 at 1:58pm:

So does that mean that all those people that lived thousands of years before the Nazarene, and those who lived centuries after and had never heard of him, are now living in Heaven?

They're dead.

There only dead in our time. time is just a direction.

A one-way direction.

Only practically, not theoretically.

Correct. If you have virtually infinite energy, it is theoretically possible. A bit like superluminal travel.

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John_Taverner

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Re: God Does Not Exist. End of Story....
Reply #606 - Aug 13^th, 2015 at 7:21am

Stratos wrote on Aug 12^th, 2015 at 8:10pm:

Lisa Jones wrote on Aug 12^th, 2015 at 8:01pm:

You've got me perplexed...to say the least.

Look up "deism".

It was fairly popular at one time.

Deism has too much traditional religious baggage, although it has a very respectable history. Deism is the "God is dead" position. It's also entirely non-interventionist. No. I'm not a Deist as such.

Life, humanity and nature in general all tend to "intervene" in an entirely non-supernatural way. Humanity is an extension of the natural world. We all have a spark of the natural "divine" in us. Instead of "divine", you can use the term "life" if you prefer to demystify it. Life is the manifestation of the living God.

A person adopting a traditional religion elects to believe in the mythos and its embedded interpretive, spiritual, and moral/ethical parameters and usually participates in a community of fellow believers.

I have no problem with those who pursue traditional religions or even humanism. They represent different ways of thinking and are all part of the fabric of life. They offer a great deal of wisdom.

Lisa Jones wrote on Aug 12^th, 2015 at 8:34pm:

Ohhhh dear.

Looks like some heavy arguments might be coming up in this topic Tongue

My Karma just ran over your Dogma. Grin

OK. I tend not to proselytise. This post was just by way of explanation.

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« Last Edit: Aug 13^th, 2015 at 7:28am by John_Taverner »

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Lord Herbert

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Re: God Does Not Exist. End of Story....
Reply #607 - Aug 13^th, 2015 at 7:26am

I found God clinging to my blanket the other day.

Now I'm a Believer.

The cat had jumped onto the bed, and then later I discovered he'd left a small half-inch seed which was Velcro-capable.

This little seed had hooks on it to use for dispersing itself far from the Mother Weed.

Its design shows ingenuity and intelligence, and is not explained by catch-all pat-words like 'evolution'.

With respect I flushed this seed down the toilet - knowing it would resurface somewhere and continue its mission of propagating itself into the future when only weeds, rats, cockroaches, and mutant Ninja Turtles will roam the earth.

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« Last Edit: Aug 13^th, 2015 at 7:34am by Lord Herbert »

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Lord Herbert Gold Member Offline Posts: 34441 Gender:	Re: God Does Not Exist. End of Story.... Reply #608 - Aug 13^th, 2015 at 7:33am I found Jesus the other day too. He was selling pirated DVDs at a Saturday morning flea market in downtown Sydney. Bloody migrants.
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Lisa Jones

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Re: God Does Not Exist. End of Story....
Reply #609 - Aug 13^th, 2015 at 8:51am

John_Taverner wrote on Aug 13^th, 2015 at 7:21am:

Stratos wrote on Aug 12^th, 2015 at 8:10pm:

Lisa Jones wrote on Aug 12^th, 2015 at 8:01pm:

You've got me perplexed...to say the least.

Look up "deism".

It was fairly popular at one time.

Deism has too much traditional religious baggage, although it has a very respectable history. Deism is the "God is dead" position. It's also entirely non-interventionist. No. I'm not a Deist as such.

Life, humanity and nature in general all tend to "intervene" in an entirely non-supernatural way. Humanity is an extension of the natural world. We all have a spark of the natural "divine" in us. Instead of "divine", you can use the term "life" if you prefer to demystify it. Life is the manifestation of the living God.

A person adopting a traditional religion elects to believe in the mythos and its embedded interpretive, spiritual, and moral/ethical parameters and usually participates in a community of fellow believers.

I have no problem with those who pursue traditional religions or even humanism. They represent different ways of thinking and are all part of the fabric of life. They offer a great deal of wisdom.

Lisa Jones wrote on Aug 12^th, 2015 at 8:34pm:

Ohhhh dear.

Looks like some heavy arguments might be coming up in this topic Tongue

My Karma just ran over your Dogma. Grin

OK. I tend not to proselytise. This post was just by way of explanation.

Don't be cruel....I want to know more.

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If I let myself be bought then I am no longer free.

HYPATIA - Greek philosopher, mathematician and astronomer (370 - 415)

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Pho Huc

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Re: God Does Not Exist. End of Story....
Reply #610 - Aug 13^th, 2015 at 10:07am

John_Taverner wrote on Aug 13^th, 2015 at 6:55am:

Pho Huc wrote on Aug 12^th, 2015 at 9:28pm:

John_Taverner wrote on Aug 12^th, 2015 at 7:44pm:

Pho Huc wrote on Aug 12^th, 2015 at 5:54pm:

John_Taverner wrote on Aug 12^th, 2015 at 5:26pm:

Raven wrote on Aug 12^th, 2015 at 1:58pm:

So does that mean that all those people that lived thousands of years before the Nazarene, and those who lived centuries after and had never heard of him, are now living in Heaven?

They're dead.

There only dead in our time. time is just a direction.

A one-way direction.

Only practically, not theoretically.

Correct. If you have virtually infinite energy, it is theoretically possible. A bit like superluminal travel.

Dyson sphere. Big ass magnetic field. time travel. its so easy in my head.
Oh, and a singularity or two. Pick that up at any Coles.

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The law locks up the man who steals the goose from the common, but leaves the greater criminal loose who steals the common from the goose (convict saying)

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Soren Gold Member Offline Posts: 25654 Gender:	Re: God Does Not Exist. End of Story.... Reply #611 - Aug 13^th, 2015 at 7:24pm John_Taverner wrote on Aug 12^th, 2015 at 7:52am: The question of existence is not a question, and doesn't enter into their definition of belief (in that context). Because they take it as a given from which faith comes.
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John_Taverner

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Re: God Does Not Exist. End of Story....
Reply #612 - Aug 13^th, 2015 at 8:22pm

Soren wrote on Aug 13^th, 2015 at 7:24pm:

John_Taverner wrote on Aug 12^th, 2015 at 7:52am:

The question of existence is not a question, and doesn't enter into their definition of belief (in that context).

Because they take it as a given from which faith comes.

Yes.

Here is a tribe that doesn't believe in God. They had absolutely no concept of God, and therefore cannot be said to have been believers at any stage. The missionary introduced them to the concept of God, but they could see no point to it.

Before they were introduced to the concept of God and also afterwards, they held no belief in God.

No matter how much you may argue the semantics, their position did not change in any practical sense. They did not suddenly become Atheists after hearing about the concept of God. They went on with their life as before.

It makes for interesting reading. The missionary, who was the first outsider to speak their language fluently, was de-converted to Atheism as a result of the encounter.

http://freethinker.co.uk/2008/11/08/how-an-amazonian-tribe-turned-a-missionary-i...

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« Last Edit: Aug 13^th, 2015 at 8:39pm by John_Taverner »

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Soren Gold Member Offline Posts: 25654 Gender:	Re: God Does Not Exist. End of Story.... Reply #613 - Aug 17^th, 2015 at 3:46pm John_Taverner wrote on Aug 12^th, 2015 at 5:51pm: Lisa Jones wrote on Aug 12^th, 2015 at 5:34pm: John Taverner, may I ask if you believe that God exists? Yes, but not the same God as you believe in. Which one, then?
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Soren

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Re: God Does Not Exist. End of Story....
Reply #614 - Aug 17^th, 2015 at 3:51pm

John_Taverner wrote on Aug 13^th, 2015 at 8:22pm:

Soren wrote on Aug 13^th, 2015 at 7:24pm:

John_Taverner wrote on Aug 12^th, 2015 at 7:52am:

The question of existence is not a question, and doesn't enter into their definition of belief (in that context).

Because they take it as a given from which faith comes.

Yes.

Here is a tribe that doesn't believe in God. They had absolutely no concept of God, and therefore cannot be said to have been believers at any stage. The missionary introduced them to the concept of God, but they could see no point to it.

Before they were introduced to the concept of God and also afterwards, they held no belief in God.

Before they were introduced to the concept they had no concept to believe in or not believe in. They were in a state of lack of concept, not lack of belief in a concept.

After they were introduced to the concept they could have believed or not believed. They didn't believe.

That is not the same as not having a concept in which to believe or not.

You cannot accept or decline a marriage proposal before it is actually made. Not being married before and also after (having declined the proposal) are not the same states, though.

After the proposal you said NO. Before the proposal you were not in a position to say anything.

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