Australian Politics Forum - God Does Not Exist. End of Story....

Yadda

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Re: God Does Not Exist. End of Story....
Reply #75 - Feb 14^th, 2015 at 11:54am

Soren wrote on Feb 14^th, 2015 at 8:38am:

Stratos wrote on Feb 14^th, 2015 at 6:43am:

Yadda wrote on Feb 14^th, 2015 at 1:39am:

The earth just hangs there, in space.

Hangs there?

It (and us, our soloar system, our galaxy and the entire universe!) are travelling at over a million km every second

Are we there yet?

I know where i am going.

As far away, as i can possibly get, from people like Stratos.

Yes, i have a choice in that.

As far away, as i can possibly get, from people like Stratos ?

.....i.e. those persons who make 'care-less' choices, and then later, seek to blame others and/or avoid responsibility, for the consequences of their poor choices.

p.s.
I Yadda, have also made many, many poor choices too.

And today, i try to do EVERYTHING within my own power, to try to avoid making those same poor choices.

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Stratos Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 4725	Re: God Does Not Exist. End of Story.... Reply #76 - Feb 14^th, 2015 at 11:55am Yadda wrote on Feb 14^th, 2015 at 11:08am: God seeks only our [mankind's] well-being. By getting his followers to murder babies?
Back to top	Pete Waldo wrote on Jan 15^th, 2014 at 11:24pm: Thus killing those Canaanite babies while they were still innocent, was a particularly merciful act IP Logged

Stratos

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Re: God Does Not Exist. End of Story....
Reply #77 - Feb 14^th, 2015 at 11:57am

Yadda wrote on Feb 14^th, 2015 at 11:54am:

.....i.e. those persons who make 'care-less' choices, and then later, seek to blame others and/or avoid responsibility, for the consequences of their poor choices.

Ah yes. What if I'm wrong and I end up in hell I assume you mean?

What if you're wrong and Allah sends us both to hell?

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Pete Waldo wrote on Jan 15^th, 2014 at 11:24pm:

Thus killing those Canaanite babies while they were still innocent, was a particularly merciful act

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Yadda

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Re: God Does Not Exist. End of Story....
Reply #78 - Feb 14^th, 2015 at 9:18pm

Stratos wrote on Feb 14^th, 2015 at 11:57am:

Yadda wrote on Feb 14^th, 2015 at 11:54am:

.....i.e. those persons who make 'care-less' choices, and then later, seek to blame others and/or avoid responsibility, for the consequences of their poor choices.

Ah yes. What if I'm wrong and I end up in hell I assume you mean?

What if you're wrong and Allah sends us both to hell?

I am subject to my God.

Not 'Allah'.

How do i know that there is a 'my God' ?

My task was not to prove a negative.

Stratos,

How do you know there is NO 'my God' ?

How are you going, with the proof for that ? Grin

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Stratos

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Re: God Does Not Exist. End of Story....
Reply #79 - Feb 14^th, 2015 at 9:30pm

Yadda wrote on Feb 14^th, 2015 at 9:18pm:

How do you know there is NO 'my God' ?

I don't, nor have I ever claimed too.

Yadda wrote on Feb 14^th, 2015 at 9:18pm:

How are you going, with the proof for that ?

Positive claims require evidence. If there is any solid evidence that a deity exists, please share it.

Until such evidence is provided, I will take the logical conclusion of not believing it something until it has been demonstrated.

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Pete Waldo wrote on Jan 15^th, 2014 at 11:24pm:

Thus killing those Canaanite babies while they were still innocent, was a particularly merciful act

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Soren

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Re: God Does Not Exist. End of Story....
Reply #80 - Feb 14^th, 2015 at 9:49pm

Stratos wrote on Feb 14^th, 2015 at 9:30pm:

Yadda wrote on Feb 14^th, 2015 at 9:18pm:

How do you know there is NO 'my God' ?

I don't, nor have I ever claimed too.

Yadda wrote on Feb 14^th, 2015 at 9:18pm:

How are you going, with the proof for that ?

Positive claims require evidence. If there is any solid evidence that a deity exists, please share it.

Until such evidence is provided, I will take the logical conclusion of not believing it something until it has been demonstrated.

Do you have solid evidence that Love, Hope, Kindness, Regret, Sympathy, Despair, Joy, Elation exist? Can you provide 'solid evidence' for them?

No. Yet they are the stuff of human life.

This insistence on 'solid evidence' stuff is for adolescents. You know that interpersonal relationships are fraught and complex and REAL - yet there is no 'solid evidence' for them, only the reports of experience from countless people.
Same with god. There is countless instances of humans experiencing 'god'. No 'solid evidence' but experience. God is what all those human beings experience.

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Stratos

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Re: God Does Not Exist. End of Story....
Reply #81 - Feb 14^th, 2015 at 9:57pm

Soren wrote on Feb 14^th, 2015 at 9:49pm:

Do you have solid evidence that Love, Hope, Kindness, Regret, Sympathy, Despair, Joy, Elation exist? Can you provide 'solid evidence' for them?

These are all observable, and these are things everybody experiences. Just because it isn't physical doesn't mean it doens't exist.

Soren wrote on Feb 14^th, 2015 at 9:49pm:

Same with god. There is countless instances of humans experiencing 'god'. No 'solid evidence' but experience. God is what all those human beings experience.

Which deity?

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Pete Waldo wrote on Jan 15^th, 2014 at 11:24pm:

Thus killing those Canaanite babies while they were still innocent, was a particularly merciful act

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Postmodern Trendoid III

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Re: God Does Not Exist. End of Story....
Reply #82 - Feb 14^th, 2015 at 9:58pm

Stratos wrote on Feb 14^th, 2015 at 9:30pm:

Positive claims require evidence. If there is any solid evidence that a deity exists, please share it.

Until such evidence is provided, I will take the logical conclusion of not believing it something until it has been demonstrated.

So what is the logical explanation for the existence of ... well ... everything?

Human beings are only describers and tinkerers of what already exists.

'Logical' explanations usually resort to isolating a phenomenon and then describing it via cause and effect sequences. The problem here is twofold: one is that describing by cause and effect results in the problem of infinite regress or to a singular cause (sometimes named as the "unmoved mover"); the second is sometimes mysterious powers are reinserted back into the phenomenon in question. For example, "force" or "power" is often used to describe the movement of physical entities. What are these but the reinsertion of mysterious and unknown phenomena? I am not arguing for a god, but I am very wary of the limits of naturalistic interpretations.

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Stratos

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Re: God Does Not Exist. End of Story....
Reply #83 - Feb 14^th, 2015 at 10:06pm

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Feb 14^th, 2015 at 9:58pm:

So what is the logical explanation for the existence of ... well ... everything?

I'm not quite sure I understand your question. Like the origin of the universe?

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Feb 14^th, 2015 at 9:58pm:

The problem here is twofold: one is that describing by cause and effect results in the problem of infinite regress or to a singular cause

Infinite regression can apply to any topic. Eventually, you will get to a point that cannot be explained. When that happens, I believe the best answer is "hey I don't know", not "god" (unless of course there would be some evidence to suggest a god of course)

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Pete Waldo wrote on Jan 15^th, 2014 at 11:24pm:

Thus killing those Canaanite babies while they were still innocent, was a particularly merciful act

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Soren

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Re: God Does Not Exist. End of Story....
Reply #84 - Feb 14^th, 2015 at 10:10pm

Stratos wrote on Feb 14^th, 2015 at 9:57pm:

Soren wrote on Feb 14^th, 2015 at 9:49pm:

Do you have solid evidence that Love, Hope, Kindness, Regret, Sympathy, Despair, Joy, Elation exist? Can you provide 'solid evidence' for them?

These are all observable, and these are things everybody experiences. Just because it isn't physical doesn't mean it doens't exist.

The experiencing of god is also observable.

And what do you mean 'just because it isn't physical'. What is 'solid evidence' if not physical (ie material, which is the meaning of physical)?

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Stratos Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 4725	Re: God Does Not Exist. End of Story.... Reply #85 - Feb 14^th, 2015 at 10:18pm Soren wrote on Feb 14^th, 2015 at 10:10pm: What is 'solid evidence' if not physical (ie material, which is the meaning of physical)? Take your pick of any religious claim. Supernatural healing, effectiveness of prayer, miracles. Anything that could provide evidence that a supernatural being exists.
Back to top	Pete Waldo wrote on Jan 15^th, 2014 at 11:24pm: Thus killing those Canaanite babies while they were still innocent, was a particularly merciful act IP Logged

Postmodern Trendoid III

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Re: God Does Not Exist. End of Story....
Reply #86 - Feb 14^th, 2015 at 10:21pm

Stratos wrote on Feb 14^th, 2015 at 10:06pm:

Infinite regression can apply to any topic. Eventually, you will get to a point that cannot be explained. When that happens, I believe the best answer is "hey I don't know", not "god" (unless of course there would be some evidence to suggest a god of course)

Yes, it can be applied to any topic. But I only argue this point because I want to see the atheists' explanation. Many atheists reject god because they're offended of what someone done in the name of religion the other day or a few hundred years ago. They rarely reject it on epistemological grounds - because they can't argue the point!

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Soren

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Re: God Does Not Exist. End of Story....
Reply #87 - Feb 14^th, 2015 at 10:25pm

Stratos wrote on Feb 14^th, 2015 at 10:18pm:

Soren wrote on Feb 14^th, 2015 at 10:10pm:

What is 'solid evidence' if not physical (ie material, which is the meaning of physical)?

Take your pick of any religious claim. Supernatural healing, effectiveness of prayer, miracles. Anything that could provide evidence that a supernatural being exists.

Do you accept supernatural evidence for a supernatural being? Or only natural evidence?

Or to put it another way, do you accept natural evidence as being evidence of a supernatural being? If the latter, look around you and tell me that you comprehend that it is all due to blind chance.

You do not comprehend it. Nobody does. It is impossible to comprehend that what you see around you - your actual, personal experience - is due to a very long chain of completely random chance events. It is unthinkable. You can say it - like you can say 2+2=74 - but you cannot think it.

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Stratos

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Re: God Does Not Exist. End of Story....
Reply #88 - Feb 14^th, 2015 at 10:32pm

Soren wrote on Feb 14^th, 2015 at 10:25pm:

Do you accept supernatural evidence for a supernatural being? Or only natural evidence?

What have you got?

Soren wrote on Feb 14^th, 2015 at 10:25pm:

If the latter, look around you and tell me that you comprehend that it is all due to blind chance.

Through scientific research, we know a lot about how the universe and everything was formed. Like I said before Soren, I would rather admit I don't know than believe that an unknown being did something.

Soren wrote on Feb 14^th, 2015 at 10:25pm:

It is impossible to comprehend that what you see around you - your actual, personal experience - is due to a very long chain of completely random chance events.

What specifically is incomprehensible in your opinion?

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Pete Waldo wrote on Jan 15^th, 2014 at 11:24pm:

Thus killing those Canaanite babies while they were still innocent, was a particularly merciful act

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Soren

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Re: God Does Not Exist. End of Story....
Reply #89 - Feb 14^th, 2015 at 10:44pm

Stratos wrote on Feb 14^th, 2015 at 10:32pm:

Soren wrote on Feb 14^th, 2015 at 10:25pm:

Do you accept supernatural evidence for a supernatural being? Or only natural evidence?

What have you got?

Soren wrote on Feb 14^th, 2015 at 10:25pm:

If the latter, look around you and tell me that you comprehend that it is all due to blind chance.

Through scientific research, we know a lot about how the universe and everything was formed. Like I said before Soren, I would rather admit I don't know than believe that an unknown being did something.

Soren wrote on Feb 14^th, 2015 at 10:25pm:

It is impossible to comprehend that what you see around you - your actual, personal experience - is due to a very long chain of completely random chance events.

What specifically is incomprehensible in your opinion?

Science is blind to matters of the heart, of meaning and value. But people report experiencing god.
People report all sorts of scientifically unverifiable experiences. God, being spooked, premonitions, sudden inspirations, regret etc.

Chance events - it is not possible to comprehend that the world is how it is due to random chance. Your own personal experience of yourself is incomprehensibe as a series of completely random events. DO you seriously believe that the way you are today is the result of random permutation every split second since your conception? And that your conception itself was the result of previous countless ransom permutations since the Big Bang? No. Nobody does. It is unbelievable and so nobody believes it.

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