Australian Politics Forum - God Does Not Exist. End of Story....

Lisa Jones

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Re: God Does Not Exist. End of Story....
Reply #150 - Feb 26^th, 2015 at 12:03pm

Soren wrote on Feb 26^th, 2015 at 11:06am:

Raven wrote on Feb 24^th, 2015 at 3:54pm:

It is easy to find joy in living without believing in God.

The need to validate your existence by attributing it to a divine being strikes Raven has misguided.

Humans have always wondered why we are here. Perhaps there is no why merely our own arrogant sense of self importance that leads us to concoct an after life and a 'loving god'

The gigantic self-conceit atheists are very prone to is to not face the absurdity of their position and to believe that their entire existence is without purpose or meaning while they, like everyone else, go about their daily tasks and life and relationships as if these elements of life had a reason and purpose.

If they were true and equal to their professed beliefs they would not live as if the elements of their lives have any meaning or purpose. But they do. They live purposeful, meaningful lives, forever struggling for meaning and purpose in the small daily aspects of their entirely meaningless and purposeless lives. In the face of absurdity they neither kill themselves nor revolt against their absurd position. Instead, having settled on an absurd position, they become smug.

Very well said. What a bunch of hypocrits they are!

(waits for the Outrage Bus to come by)

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If I let myself be bought then I am no longer free.

HYPATIA - Greek philosopher, mathematician and astronomer (370 - 415)

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Raven

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Re: God Does Not Exist. End of Story....
Reply #151 - Feb 26^th, 2015 at 3:47pm

Soren wrote on Feb 26^th, 2015 at 11:06am:

Raven wrote on Feb 24^th, 2015 at 3:54pm:

It is easy to find joy in living without believing in God.

The need to validate your existence by attributing it to a divine being strikes Raven has misguided.

Humans have always wondered why we are here. Perhaps there is no why merely our own arrogant sense of self importance that leads us to concoct an after life and a 'loving god'

The gigantic self-conceit atheists are very prone to is to not face the absurdity of their position and to believe that their entire existence is without purpose or meaning while they, like everyone else, go about their daily tasks and life and relationships as if these elements of life had a reason and purpose.

If they were true and equal to their professed beliefs they would not live as if the elements of their lives have any meaning or purpose. But they do. They live purposeful, meaningful lives, forever struggling for meaning and purpose in the small daily aspects of their entirely meaningless and purposeless lives. In the face of absurdity they neither kill themselves nor revolt against their absurd position. Instead, having settled on an absurd position, they become smug.

Life does have meaning and purpose, you just don't need a god to give that meaning or purpose.

There may be a no 'why' we are here, just that we are here. We give our life meaning and purpose, we chart our own course and don't need a supreme being to give us our purpose.

Raven's life has meaning to those around him, just as their life has meaning to Raven. Just as your life has meaning to those around you.

Theists settle on the absurd opinion that only a deity can truly give your life meaning and purpose. In the face of this absurdity, such as when they come into contact with those who don't need a god to give their life meaning (and actually lead happy lives) do they kill themselves or revolt against their position? No they look to their 'higher power,' they become smug.

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Quoth the Raven "Nevermore"

Raven would rather ask questions that may never be answered, then accept answers which must never be questioned.

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Stratos

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Re: God Does Not Exist. End of Story....
Reply #152 - Feb 26^th, 2015 at 4:11pm

Soren wrote on Feb 26^th, 2015 at 11:06am:

The gigantic self-conceit atheists are very prone to is to not face the absurdity of their position

Whis is atheism absurd to you Soren? I see no evidence of a deity, therefore I don't believe in one. It really is that simple.

Soren, what god do you believe in and why?

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Pete Waldo wrote on Jan 15^th, 2014 at 11:24pm:

Thus killing those Canaanite babies while they were still innocent, was a particularly merciful act

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Soren

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Re: God Does Not Exist. End of Story....
Reply #153 - Feb 26^th, 2015 at 9:08pm

Stratos wrote on Feb 26^th, 2015 at 4:11pm:

Soren wrote on Feb 26^th, 2015 at 11:06am:

The gigantic self-conceit atheists are very prone to is to not face the absurdity of their position

Whis is atheism absurd to you Soren?

Because you cannot regard the upbringing of your children, pursuit of a career and material and intellectual betterment as meaningful and worthwhile if your entire existence itself is utterly meaningless and without any reason, cause or purpose. That is the absurdity of atheism. You claim your existence to be utterly random and radically meaningless - yet you live every day in pursuit of meaning and purpose. You pretend every minute to be an ethical clump of matter - which is absurd.

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Soren

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Re: God Does Not Exist. End of Story....
Reply #154 - Feb 26^th, 2015 at 9:12pm

Raven wrote on Feb 26^th, 2015 at 3:47pm:

There may be a no 'why' we are here, just that we are here. We give our life meaning and purpose, we chart our own course and don't need a supreme being to give us our purpose.

Where do you, clump of earth, get the idea to give your life meaning if you maintain that life itself is utterly meaningless and that your life is a blind coincidence without any purpose outside what you invent?
WHere and how did you get the urge to invent your own meaning? To what end are you inventing daily meanings for an utterly random and purposeless life?

Atheism is both forgetful of its inheritance and unimaginative and pedestrian and smug enough to repudiate its inheritance.

There could be no atheist imagination without the inheritance of religious, metaphysical imagination that has furnished art, literature, language, architecture, ethics, Philosophy, politics, social relations, self-perception for millennia. This is why the language of atheism cannot break away from the language of religion and metaphysics. Atheism is expressible only in religious terms. You cannot think atheism except as a negative religion. Atheism has no positive vocabulary or positive language of its own.

It is a simple nay-saying - an intellectually parasitic thing.

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« Last Edit: Feb 26^th, 2015 at 9:18pm by Soren »

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Setanta

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Re: God Does Not Exist. End of Story....
Reply #155 - Feb 26^th, 2015 at 11:36pm

Soren wrote on Feb 26^th, 2015 at 9:08pm:

Because you cannot regard the upbringing of your children, pursuit of a career and material and intellectual betterment as meaningful and worthwhile if your entire existence itself is utterly meaningless and without any reason, cause or purpose. That is the absurdity of atheism. You claim your existence to be utterly random and radically meaningless - yet you live every day in pursuit of meaning and purpose. You pretend every minute to be an ethical clump of matter - which is absurd.

Why? I brought up 3 sons, all fine adults now. I did my best for them because of that evolutionary drive to preserve ones genes. In accomplishing that I gain a great deal of satisfaction and the satisfaction and joy of seeing them reproduce and the joy those children bring me as people, just as my sons do. My learning, my intellect, what I teach them is not information lost when I die, it is information passed to my offspring that may well help them and their families prosper. My genes go on.

What a hollow life you must have thinking you do what you do only because some ephemeral thing wants you to. It's like that old argument "well if you're an atheist, and don't have any foundation in morals, you would rape, murder and pillage." No. You are a horrible person if you need a threat to make not you behave like that. In truth, if that's what you would do without a "hell" threat, you are an arsehole.

I live in wonderment every time I walk outside or contemplate the tech I have inside my above ground cave.

Strangely, for example, we all find meaning tapping little square thing with symbols on them, to communicate. Why else are you here?

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« Last Edit: Feb 26^th, 2015 at 11:42pm by Setanta »

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Stratos

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Re: God Does Not Exist. End of Story....
Reply #156 - Feb 27^th, 2015 at 8:19am

Soren wrote on Feb 26^th, 2015 at 9:08pm:

Because you cannot regard the upbringing of your children, pursuit of a career and material and intellectual betterment as meaningful and worthwhile if your entire existence itself is utterly meaningless and without any reason, cause or purpose.

You are describing a nihilist, not an atheist. All the things you have described have what I would call intrinsic value, that is value in and of themselves.

ironically, it is religions that have been the ones to try and take those same things away. Upbringing of children? Tell that to the many sects that promote celibacy. Pursuit of a career? Tell that to the women who can't follow all the career paths because of religious beliefs. Intellectual betterment? Tell that to the creationists who lie to their kids and deny them a full education because of their religious beliefs.

Soren, what god do you believe in and why?

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Pete Waldo wrote on Jan 15^th, 2014 at 11:24pm:

Thus killing those Canaanite babies while they were still innocent, was a particularly merciful act

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Prime Minister for Canyons

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Re: God Does Not Exist. End of Story....
Reply #157 - Feb 27^th, 2015 at 12:12pm

Soren wrote on Feb 26^th, 2015 at 9:08pm:

Stratos wrote on Feb 26^th, 2015 at 4:11pm:

Soren wrote on Feb 26^th, 2015 at 11:06am:

The gigantic self-conceit atheists are very prone to is to not face the absurdity of their position

Whis is atheism absurd to you Soren?

Because you cannot regard the upbringing of your children, pursuit of a career and material and intellectual betterment as meaningful and worthwhile if your entire existence itself is utterly meaningless and without any reason, cause or purpose. That is the absurdity of atheism. You claim your existence to be utterly random and radically meaningless - yet you live every day in pursuit of meaning and purpose. You pretend every minute to be an ethical clump of matter - which is absurd.

I have a purpose, being good to people. It is its own reward. I don't need fear of a mystical being to drive me to be nice to people.

As someone else said, if you need the threat of hell to drive you to be a good person, then its your moral compass, not mine, thats buggered up.

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In a time of universal deceit — telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

No evidence whatsoever it can be attributed to George Orwell or Eric Arthur Blair (in fact the same guy)

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Postmodern Trendoid III

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Re: God Does Not Exist. End of Story....
Reply #158 - Feb 27^th, 2015 at 9:26pm

Setanta wrote on Feb 26^th, 2015 at 11:36pm:

Why? I brought up 3 sons, all fine adults now. I did my best for them because of that evolutionary drive to preserve ones genes. In accomplishing that I gain a great deal of satisfaction and the satisfaction and joy of seeing them reproduce and the joy those children bring me as people, just as my sons do. My learning, my intellect, what I teach them is not information lost when I die, it is information passed to my offspring that may well help them and their families prosper. My genes go on.

Where do genes come from? Where does the evolutionary drive come from? Why do both exist?

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Postmodern Trendoid III Gold Member Offline Posts: 10266 Gender:	Re: God Does Not Exist. End of Story.... Reply #159 - Feb 27^th, 2015 at 9:27pm Stratos wrote on Feb 27^th, 2015 at 8:19am: All the things you have described have what I would call intrinsic value, that is value in and of themselves. Intrinsic? Sounds a bit religious-like. Who or what puts the intrinsic value into things?
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Soren

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Re: God Does Not Exist. End of Story....
Reply #160 - Feb 27^th, 2015 at 9:37pm

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Feb 27^th, 2015 at 12:12pm:

I have a purpose, being good to people. It is its own reward.

Your life is meaningless. Their lives are meaningless. What is the value in a meaningless word that makes you or them 'good'? What elephant, what turtle supporting the elephants, are you standing on to be able to tell the difference between 'good' and 'bad' in a world which you declare to be meaningless and therefore without meaning for 'good' or ''bad'?

I think you guys are a bunch of soppy little Bambies - you have never, ever thought beyond your stupid little cliched, limited horizons. You just do not comprehend anything beyond your wanky little 8 year old insistence on 'we are noice and we do not need no stinking daddy in the sky'. You cannot reason beyond ' I don't like it'.

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Amadd

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Re: God Does Not Exist. End of Story....
Reply #161 - Feb 27^th, 2015 at 9:44pm

In my observations over the years, I have come to the conclusion that a lot (most) religious people require a moral compass of some sort because theirs doesn't work so well.

Lisa's view on execution may be surprising to some, however, I often find a mean spirited core within the external shell of purported righteousness.

For mine, I've never found it to be very constructive arguing religion face to face. Instead, I prefer to note just how far they are from the teachings of their scriptures compared with many who have never had a need for religion.

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Soren

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Re: God Does Not Exist. End of Story....
Reply #162 - Feb 27^th, 2015 at 9:47pm

Stratos wrote on Feb 27^th, 2015 at 8:19am:

Soren wrote on Feb 26^th, 2015 at 9:08pm:

Because you cannot regard the upbringing of your children, pursuit of a career and material and intellectual betterment as meaningful and worthwhile if your entire existence itself is utterly meaningless and without any reason, cause or purpose.

You are describing a nihilist, not an atheist. All the things you have described have what I would call intrinsic value, that is value in and of themselves.

ironically, it is religions that have been the ones to try and take those same things away. Upbringing of children? Tell that to the many sects that promote celibacy. Pursuit of a career? Tell that to the women who can't follow all the career paths because of religious beliefs. Intellectual betterment? Tell that to the creationists who lie to their kids and deny them a full education because of their religious beliefs.

Soren, what god do you believe in and why?

Living as an atheist (existence is random and so meaningless and without purpose) is absurd. You have to overcome the absurdity if you want to stay alive and claim any ethical relevance.
Most atheist are Bambies and have no intellectual or any other capacity to bridge their in-principal rejection of the meaning of life and their personal clinging to a meaningful life.

Most atheists mistake their absurdity for rebellion and insight.
Pathetic.

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Bobby. Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 105712 Melbourne Gender:	Re: God Does Not Exist. End of Story.... Reply #163 - Feb 27^th, 2015 at 9:53pm God does exist - in the imaginations of people - that's all.
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Amadd

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Re: God Does Not Exist. End of Story....
Reply #164 - Feb 27^th, 2015 at 10:28pm

What is the purpose of following a religion?

I'd imagine that the answer would be something along the lines of, to understand God's will, to find spiritual enlightenment, to become a better person and maybe even to find meaning in life.

Of course "God's will" is the opinion of the authors. Not saying that they are bad opinions, but just opinions nonetheless.

"Spiritual enlightenment" for want of a better term, can be realized in many different ways as we travel this path of life by the religious and non-religious alike.
To a selfish religious person, that may mean never having to admit they're wrong ever again because they imagine they've found God. To Einstein, it may have been the theory of relativity and what it could mean to the world. Tongue

Becoming a "better person" doesn't happen by following dogma IMO. I've never seen it, and I doubt that I ever will.

Finding meaning? Well, finding interest and doing what you love or feel compelled to do usually involves not thinking very much about why. If I was condemned to being a servant of a religion, I would find life meaningless.

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« Last Edit: Feb 27^th, 2015 at 11:21pm by Amadd »

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