Australian Politics Forum - God Does Not Exist. End of Story....

Raven

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Re: God Does Not Exist. End of Story....
Reply #195 - Mar 4^th, 2015 at 10:05pm

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Mar 4^th, 2015 at 8:00pm:

Stratos wrote on Mar 4^th, 2015 at 7:47pm:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Mar 4^th, 2015 at 7:44pm:

So who put them there then?

Why would you assume a "who? put them there?

Can you think of any phenomena without a creator? We claim human beings create things, so why can't phenomena not created by humans have a creator? We use cause and effect reasoning everyday. We use it to understand so much of the world around us and to trace things back to their primacy. Why suspend cause and effect reasoning in this instance?

What happens when effect precede cause? According to causality if an event A is a cause of an effect B, then B cannot be a cause of A.

However quantum mechanics has shown it is possible to conceive situations in which a single event can be both, a cause and an effect of another one.

God creates man and man returns the favour?

As we delve deeper into the quantum realm we see something remarkable an effect without a cause.

If we can see there can be an effect without a cause then why does there have to be a creator?

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Quoth the Raven "Nevermore"

Raven would rather ask questions that may never be answered, then accept answers which must never be questioned.

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Stratos

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Re: God Does Not Exist. End of Story....
Reply #196 - Mar 4^th, 2015 at 10:09pm

Amadd wrote on Mar 4^th, 2015 at 10:01pm:

Isn't there 40 odd authors in the bible?

Many of them unknown or unverified, such as Moses, alleged author of the Pentateuch. While a literal Moses may have existed, there are things that happen in his books there is no evidence for (and no, not Genesis and the flood, although obviously them to) such as the Hebrews being enslaved by Egypt at that time, 40 years wandering etc.

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Pete Waldo wrote on Jan 15^th, 2014 at 11:24pm:

Thus killing those Canaanite babies while they were still innocent, was a particularly merciful act

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Amadd

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Re: God Does Not Exist. End of Story....
Reply #197 - Mar 4^th, 2015 at 10:26pm

Stratos wrote on Mar 4^th, 2015 at 10:09pm:

Amadd wrote on Mar 4^th, 2015 at 10:01pm:

Isn't there 40 odd authors in the bible?

Many of them unknown or unverified, such as Moses, alleged author of the Pentateuch. While a literal Moses may have existed, there are things that happen in his books there is no evidence for (and no, not Genesis and the flood, although obviously them to) such as the Hebrews being enslaved by Egypt at that time, 40 years wandering etc.

No evidence of Jesus Christ either.
You'd have to assume that he is a fictional character.

Going by the Christians that I know, he is surely fictional Grin

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« Last Edit: Mar 5^th, 2015 at 2:41pm by Amadd »

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Postmodern Trendoid III

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Re: God Does Not Exist. End of Story....
Reply #198 - Mar 4^th, 2015 at 11:01pm

Stratos wrote on Mar 4^th, 2015 at 9:21pm:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Mar 4^th, 2015 at 8:00pm:

Can you think of any phenomena without a creator?

Everything that hasn't been made by animals or humans, to the best of knowledge.

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Mar 4^th, 2015 at 8:00pm:

We claim human beings create things, so why can't phenomena not created by humans have a creator?

It could, but why assume that without evidence?

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Mar 4^th, 2015 at 8:00pm:

We use cause and effect reasoning everyday

Indeed, and what necessitates a creator god in what we have observed?

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Mar 4^th, 2015 at 8:00pm:

Why suspend cause and effect reasoning in this instance?

Could you provide some specific examples you think requires a divine creator? Otherwise this question basically could encompass literally anything.

Using the reasoning of cause and effect, everything comes from a single point. What this single point is, how long it had been there, who or what created it, why it then 'exploded' into an elaborate multiplicity of phenomena, is a mystery. The original single point could be called a god of some description, couldn't it?

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Stratos

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Re: God Does Not Exist. End of Story....
Reply #199 - Mar 4^th, 2015 at 11:06pm

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Mar 4^th, 2015 at 11:01pm:

What this single point is, how long it had been there, who or what created it, why it then 'exploded' into an elaborate multiplicity of phenomena, is a mystery. The original single point could be called a god of some description, couldn't it?

Absolutely. I would much rather prefer to say that I don't know what came before than label it a deity though.

I'm honestly open to the idea of a god, but without any evidence I won't assume that one would exist in the gaps of knowledge we have.

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Pete Waldo wrote on Jan 15^th, 2014 at 11:24pm:

Thus killing those Canaanite babies while they were still innocent, was a particularly merciful act

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Postmodern Trendoid III

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Re: God Does Not Exist. End of Story....
Reply #200 - Mar 4^th, 2015 at 11:20pm

Raven wrote on Mar 4^th, 2015 at 9:40pm:

When those who believe a god gives us a meaning of life that would be a pre-ordained meaning to life. If we were created by random chance then there is no pre-ordained meaning to our life. It is us humans that give our life meaning. Raven is the product of several million sperm racing to one egg. By pure chance one particular sperm reached the egg and created Raven.

Had another sperm reached that egg Raven would not exist. Some would say Raven is destined to be here. Another argument is that Raven is a one in a hundred million fluke. If all is pre-ordained why do we need so much sperm racing towards the goal.

Life isn't completely preordained, I agree (I prefer the word 'determined' though).

Quote:

As to our powerful instincts life would not exist without them. It is programed into life over billions of years of evolution, a self replicating protection matrix that through trial and error has enabled life to look after number one at all costs.

Our instincts are natures way of responding to the realities of our world

We're back to instincts again. They have evolved (I prefer the word 'morph', as this doesn't restrict instincts to a linear timeline), but from what? You say "it's natures [sic] way". So who creates nature?

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Postmodern Trendoid III

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Re: God Does Not Exist. End of Story....
Reply #201 - Mar 4^th, 2015 at 11:32pm

Raven wrote on Mar 4^th, 2015 at 10:05pm:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Mar 4^th, 2015 at 8:00pm:

Stratos wrote on Mar 4^th, 2015 at 7:47pm:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Mar 4^th, 2015 at 7:44pm:

So who put them there then?

Why would you assume a "who? put them there?

Can you think of any phenomena without a creator? We claim human beings create things, so why can't phenomena not created by humans have a creator? We use cause and effect reasoning everyday. We use it to understand so much of the world around us and to trace things back to their primacy. Why suspend cause and effect reasoning in this instance?

What happens when effect precede cause? According to causality if an event A is a cause of an effect B, then B cannot be a cause of A.

However quantum mechanics has shown it is possible to conceive situations in which a single event can be both, a cause and an effect of another one.

God creates man and man returns the favour?

As we delve deeper into the quantum realm we see something remarkable an effect without a cause.

If we can see there can be an effect without a cause then why does there have to be a creator?

My quantum mechanics is a bit rusty. Perhaps you can explain superposition in laymen terms for me?

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vikaryan Senior Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 453 Gender:	Re: God Does Not Exist. End of Story.... Reply #202 - Mar 5^th, 2015 at 6:13am Quote: We live in an age where we seriously plan to send human beings to Mars, where the life expectancy for westerners is Methuselah-like http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/feb/12/religion-atheism-britons-god
Back to top	i_believe_life_before_death_sticker-r2268eae25084486e8abe4cf2106db20a_v9wf3_8byvr_500.jpg (29 KB \| 72 ) We fight a holy war against the fat and the corrupt and the sinful and the unbelieving! IP Logged

vikaryan

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Re: God Does Not Exist. End of Story....
Reply #203 - Mar 7^th, 2015 at 10:15am

To Be Fully Religious, One Must Embrace Atheism!

Typically, atheists have chosen, wisely, not to believe the anthropomorphic conception of that “bearded fellow in the sky,” the quintessential Western vision of Divinity.

http://www.jewishjournal.com/socialjusticerav/item/to_be_fully_religious_one_must_partially_embrace_atheism

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We fight a holy war against the fat and the corrupt and the sinful and the unbelieving!

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vikaryan

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Re: God Does Not Exist. End of Story....
Reply #204 - Mar 7^th, 2015 at 10:24am

No one religion can have a monopoly on truth. A common Indian metaphor, about blind men and an elephant, tells of how some blind men touch different parts of an elephant, and then compare notes to find that they are in complete disagreement about the shape of the elephant. The analogy, which is with religion, argues that only by putting together the experiences of all the blind men (individual religions) will gain us an approximate understanding of the whole (truth). A similar viewpoint in the West can be found in the Allegory of the Cave. This is not to say that “anything goes.” Anthropologists, mystics, and religious scholars have noticed several commonalities that run throughout nearly all religions. Hinduism itself, despite its diversity, multiple schools, and multiple perspectives on theology, has some ideas found in every perspective, including karma, dharma, which is like the idea of natural law, and Brahman, the reality which lies at the basis of the universe.

http://thediplomat.com/2015/03/how-to-approach-religion-in-the-21st-century-lessons-from-indias-traditions/

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We fight a holy war against the fat and the corrupt and the sinful and the unbelieving!

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Soren

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Re: God Does Not Exist. End of Story....
Reply #205 - Mar 7^th, 2015 at 9:24pm

vikaryan wrote on Mar 7^th, 2015 at 10:24am:

No one religion can have a monopoly on truth. A common Indian metaphor, about blind men and an elephant, tells of how some blind men touch different parts of an elephant, and then compare notes to find that they are in complete disagreement about the shape of the elephant. The analogy, which is with religion, argues that only by putting together the experiences of all the blind men (individual religions) will gain us an approximate understanding of the whole (truth). A similar viewpoint in the West can be found in the Allegory of the Cave. This is not to say that “anything goes.” Anthropologists, mystics, and religious scholars have noticed several commonalities that run throughout nearly all religions. Hinduism itself, despite its diversity, multiple schools, and multiple perspectives on theology, has some ideas found in every perspective, including karma, dharma, which is like the idea of natural law, and Brahman, the reality which lies at the basis of the universe.

http://thediplomat.com/2015/03/how-to-approach-religion-in-the-21st-century-lessons-from-indias-traditions/

A fricken Indian promoting the "elephants' legs go all the way down" wheeze.

Look at India and tell me that Hinduism is the answer.
It is if you want "every perspective, including karma, dharma" and sh!tting everywhere while talking on your mobile, surrounded by sacred cows, themselves sh!tting everywhere.

Primitive and ridiculous.

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Amadd

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Re: God Does Not Exist. End of Story....
Reply #206 - Mar 8^th, 2015 at 2:00am

Soren wrote on Mar 7^th, 2015 at 9:24pm:

vikaryan wrote on Mar 7^th, 2015 at 10:24am:

No one religion can have a monopoly on truth. A common Indian metaphor, about blind men and an elephant, tells of how some blind men touch different parts of an elephant, and then compare notes to find that they are in complete disagreement about the shape of the elephant. The analogy, which is with religion, argues that only by putting together the experiences of all the blind men (individual religions) will gain us an approximate understanding of the whole (truth). A similar viewpoint in the West can be found in the Allegory of the Cave. This is not to say that “anything goes.” Anthropologists, mystics, and religious scholars have noticed several commonalities that run throughout nearly all religions. Hinduism itself, despite its diversity, multiple schools, and multiple perspectives on theology, has some ideas found in every perspective, including karma, dharma, which is like the idea of natural law, and Brahman, the reality which lies at the basis of the universe.

http://thediplomat.com/2015/03/how-to-approach-religion-in-the-21st-century-lessons-from-indias-traditions/

A fricken Indian promoting the "elephants' legs go all the way down" wheeze.

Look at India and tell me that Hinduism is the answer.
It is if you want "every perspective, including karma, dharma" and sh!tting everywhere while talking on your mobile, surrounded by sacred cows, themselves sh!tting everywhere.

Primitive and ridiculous.

Racist ungodly and arrogant.

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« Last Edit: Mar 8^th, 2015 at 9:04am by Amadd »

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Stratos Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 4725	Re: God Does Not Exist. End of Story.... Reply #207 - Mar 8^th, 2015 at 6:42am Soren, what properties does the deity you believe in have?
Back to top	Pete Waldo wrote on Jan 15^th, 2014 at 11:24pm: Thus killing those Canaanite babies while they were still innocent, was a particularly merciful act IP Logged

vikaryan Senior Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 453 Gender:	Re: God Does Not Exist. End of Story.... Reply #208 - Mar 8^th, 2015 at 12:30pm You can't conquer space when you believe in imaginary gods. https://archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/24118649/#24119339
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Soren

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Re: God Does Not Exist. End of Story....
Reply #209 - Mar 8^th, 2015 at 3:11pm

Stratos wrote on Mar 8^th, 2015 at 6:42am:

Soren, what properties does the deity you believe in have?

I suggest you listen to Roger Scruton's 2010 Gifford lectures. http://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/gifford/2010/listen/

The last lecture is titled The Face of God.

You may not have either the interest or the patience to sit through 6 hours of philosophical reflections of the highest intellectual order. That would be a pity if you are really interested in how else people can look at this question - here's your chance to encounter an intelligent alternative to your own comprehension, a way you have never thought yourself yet which is at the very minimum as coherent and intelligent than your views.

But if you are really impatient, you may just want to read this review of the lectures in the New Statesman.

http://www.newstatesman.com/books/2012/03/face-god-gifford-lectures

The reviewer, Richard Holloway, is also of the highest intellectual calibre.

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« Last Edit: Mar 9^th, 2015 at 7:45am by Soren »

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