Australian Politics Forum - God Does Not Exist. End of Story....

Stratos

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Re: God Does Not Exist. End of Story....
Reply #270 - Mar 22^nd, 2015 at 12:47pm

Soren wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2015 at 11:51am:

(I think, with Tolkein, that atheism's fatal flaw is that it is completely unimaginative, dull and insipid).

You know what would be awesome? Magic. A world with magic would definitely not be unimaginative, dull or insipid.

Can you see why this is a poor reason to believe in something? Just because you like an idea, doesn't mean it is true.

Also for the record, here is a list of things an atheist can by definition believe in:

Magic
Astrology
Ghosts
Reincarnation
Numerology
the Loch Ness Monster.

Atheism only addresses deities, not anything else, and to suggest that if you don't have believe in a God your life beliefs must be are dull and unimaginative is incorrect.

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Pete Waldo wrote on Jan 15^th, 2014 at 11:24pm:

Thus killing those Canaanite babies while they were still innocent, was a particularly merciful act

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Soren

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Re: God Does Not Exist. End of Story....
Reply #271 - Mar 22^nd, 2015 at 4:40pm

Stratos wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2015 at 12:47pm:

Soren wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2015 at 11:51am:

(I think, with Tolkein, that atheism's fatal flaw is that it is completely unimaginative, dull and insipid).

You know what would be awesome? Magic. A world with magic would definitely not be unimaginative, dull or insipid.

Can you see why this is a poor reason to believe in something? Just because you like an idea, doesn't mean it is true.

Also for the record, here is a list of things an atheist can by definition believe in:

Magic
Astrology
Ghosts
Reincarnation
Numerology
the Loch Ness Monster.

Atheism only addresses deities, not anything else, and to suggest that if you don't have believe in a God your life beliefs must be are dull and unimaginative is incorrect.

Your life may be tremendously exciting but your outlook on the nature of the world is dull. It is a bit like being content with pop music and detective stories and never even venturing to the borders, let alone the heights of high culture because it is 'elitist' and one must remain humdrum and plebeian in everything.

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Stratos

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Re: God Does Not Exist. End of Story....
Reply #272 - Mar 22^nd, 2015 at 5:05pm

Soren wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2015 at 4:40pm:

Your life may be tremendously exciting but your outlook on the nature of the world is dull.

My outlook on the world is one of fascination, wonder and amazement Soren. I am not a nihilist

Soren wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2015 at 4:40pm:

never even venturing to the borders, let alone the heights of high culture because it is 'elitist' and one must remain humdrum and plebeian in everything.

I have ventured those borders Soren. I found some valuable philosophy, visual art, music, culture and history, but no divine beings, despite wanting there to be one. What strands of thinking do you think are off limits to atheists?

I really feel I have said this a dozen times, but I am not saying there are no gods, I am saying that based on the evidence I don't believe in them.

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Pete Waldo wrote on Jan 15^th, 2014 at 11:24pm:

Thus killing those Canaanite babies while they were still innocent, was a particularly merciful act

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Soren

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Re: God Does Not Exist. End of Story....
Reply #273 - Mar 22^nd, 2015 at 6:56pm

Stratos wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2015 at 5:05pm:

Soren wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2015 at 4:40pm:

Your life may be tremendously exciting but your outlook on the nature of the world is dull.

My outlook on the world is one of fascination, wonder and amazement Soren. I am not a nihilist[/b]

Tell me about that.

Here's why.

I do not believe that one can be fascinated, amazed and full of wonder about something utterly, utterly random and meaningless. Fascination, amazement, wonder are all about comprehending a meaning. It is simply impossible to be filled with amazement, wonder and fascination about something that is by definition devoid of any meaning or reason.

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NorthOfNorth Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 17258 Gender:	Re: God Does Not Exist. End of Story.... Reply #274 - Mar 22^nd, 2015 at 6:59pm Soren wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2015 at 6:56pm: Fascination, amazement, wonder are all about comprehending a meaning. How many kids did you say you have?
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Stratos Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 4725	Re: God Does Not Exist. End of Story.... Reply #275 - Mar 22^nd, 2015 at 7:21pm Soren, either you have not been listening or you do not understand the term: I am not a nihilist.
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Soren

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Re: God Does Not Exist. End of Story....
Reply #276 - Mar 22^nd, 2015 at 7:25pm

NorthOfNorth wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2015 at 6:59pm:

Soren wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2015 at 6:56pm:

Fascination, amazement, wonder are all about comprehending a meaning.

How many kids did you say you have?

Good point. I have three - but one must resist. Teenagers point to the overwhelming meaninglessness of it all.

Must not succumb.

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Soren Gold Member Offline Posts: 25654 Gender:	Re: God Does Not Exist. End of Story.... Reply #277 - Mar 22^nd, 2015 at 7:26pm Stratos wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2015 at 7:21pm: Soren, either you have not been listening or you do not understand the term: I am not a nihilist. Tell me how you garner meaning from a meaningless world.
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Stratos Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 4725	Re: God Does Not Exist. End of Story.... Reply #278 - Mar 22^nd, 2015 at 7:30pm Soren wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2015 at 6:56pm: It is simply impossible to be filled with amazement, wonder and fascination about something that is by definition devoid of any meaning or reason. Clearly you have never witnessed a harmonograph in action.
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Stratos

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Re: God Does Not Exist. End of Story....
Reply #279 - Mar 22^nd, 2015 at 7:35pm

Soren wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2015 at 7:26pm:

Tell me how you garner meaning from a meaningless world.

Who said the world is meaningless? Certainly not me at any point. Individual people find their own meaning for the world, and have done for thousands of years.

Whether that meaning is paying homage to a deity, raising a family, or finding meaning in the thousands of other ways humans have lead their lives.

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Pete Waldo wrote on Jan 15^th, 2014 at 11:24pm:

Thus killing those Canaanite babies while they were still innocent, was a particularly merciful act

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NorthOfNorth

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Re: God Does Not Exist. End of Story....
Reply #280 - Mar 22^nd, 2015 at 7:35pm

Soren wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2015 at 7:25pm:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2015 at 6:59pm:

Soren wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2015 at 6:56pm:

Fascination, amazement, wonder are all about comprehending a meaning.

How many kids did you say you have?

Good point. I have three - but one must resist. Teenagers point to the overwhelming meaninglessness of it all.

Must not succumb.

Do you remember their fascination, amazement and wonder at.. well, many things.. When they were young... When meaning to them was an 'unknown unknown'?

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Conviction is the art of being certain

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Soren

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Re: God Does Not Exist. End of Story....
Reply #281 - Mar 22^nd, 2015 at 8:03pm

NorthOfNorth wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2015 at 7:35pm:

Soren wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2015 at 7:25pm:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2015 at 6:59pm:

Soren wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2015 at 6:56pm:

Fascination, amazement, wonder are all about comprehending a meaning.

How many kids did you say you have?

Good point. I have three - but one must resist. Teenagers point to the overwhelming meaninglessness of it all.

Must not succumb.

Do you remember their fascination, amazement and wonder at.. well, many things.. When they were young... When meaning to them was an 'unknown unknown'?

You mean when they were 'religious'? Before cynicism and stupid herd mentality set in, before their imagination was suffocated by group think?

Yes, I do remember.

You have a massive, massive anticlerical chip on your shoulder and I will not dispute that sort of thing witrh you or anyone else.

But to treat religion as an entirely clerical enterprise is silly and shortsighted.
God is not the same as his churches and clerics. I am not defending clerics, I am defending people who honestly and seriously hold a well-considered and productive religious view. I am on their side and will not throw them to the Jacobins like you.

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NorthOfNorth

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Re: God Does Not Exist. End of Story....
Reply #282 - Mar 22^nd, 2015 at 8:17pm

Soren wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2015 at 8:03pm:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2015 at 7:35pm:

Soren wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2015 at 7:25pm:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2015 at 6:59pm:

Soren wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2015 at 6:56pm:

Fascination, amazement, wonder are all about comprehending a meaning.

How many kids did you say you have?

Good point. I have three - but one must resist. Teenagers point to the overwhelming meaninglessness of it all.

Must not succumb.

Do you remember their fascination, amazement and wonder at.. well, many things.. When they were young... When meaning to them was an 'unknown unknown'?

You mean when they were 'religious'? Before cynicism and stupid herd mentality set in, before their imagination was suffocated by group think?

No, I mean when they were fascinated, amazed and awed by the world before they were taught that all things had 'meaning'.

Soren wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2015 at 8:03pm:

You have a massive, massive anticlerical chip on your shoulder and I will not dispute that sort of thing witrh you or anyone else.

I haven't mentioned clerics.

Soren wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2015 at 8:03pm:

But to treat religion as an entirely clerical enterprise is silly and shortsighted.
God is not the same as his churches and clerics. I am not defending clerics, I am defending people who honestly and seriously hold a well-considered and productive religious view. I am on their side and will not throw them to the Jacobins like you.

Fascination, amazement and wonder do not require a belief in a deity or a religious dogma... That's for those who crave absolute meaning...

Fascination, amazement and wonder require a childlike mind, freed (at least momentarily) of a need for meaning.

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Conviction is the art of being certain

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Soren

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Re: God Does Not Exist. End of Story....
Reply #283 - Mar 23^rd, 2015 at 5:41pm

Stratos wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2015 at 7:35pm:

Soren wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2015 at 7:26pm:

Tell me how you garner meaning from a meaningless world.

Who said the world is meaningless? Certainly not me at any point. Individual people find their own meaning for the world, and have done for thousands of years.

Whether that meaning is paying homage to a deity, raising a family, or finding meaning in the thousands of other ways humans have lead their lives.

So if we all just make it up as we go - why the big song and dance about the guys who make up a god to give the world meaning? How is that any worse than you making up some private meaning for yourself?

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Stratos

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Re: God Does Not Exist. End of Story....
Reply #284 - Mar 23^rd, 2015 at 5:54pm

Soren wrote on Mar 23^rd, 2015 at 5:41pm:

So if we all just make it up as we go - why the big song and dance about the guys who make up a god to give the world meaning?

I don't care, but I don't why people would embrace a deity that can't be demonstrated in any way, other than the gaps you believe God lies in Soren. Besides even religions make things up as they go along. Even you don't seem to know anything about the God you believe in, other than it is responsible for some "human" qualities", a claim which you cannot (or at the very least have not) prove in any way.

Why attribute that which we do not understand to a being that hasn't been demonstrated?

Soren wrote on Mar 23^rd, 2015 at 5:41pm:

How is that any worse than you making up some private meaning for yourself?

Because I'm not basing my existence on a thoroughly flawed set of scriptures that does not in any way correspond to reality? Religion is often a terrible thing, just look at a history book. Even today there are fundamentalist religious folk doing terrible things in the name of their gods.

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Pete Waldo wrote on Jan 15^th, 2014 at 11:24pm:

Thus killing those Canaanite babies while they were still innocent, was a particularly merciful act

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