Australian Politics Forum - God Does Not Exist. End of Story....

vikaryan

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Re: God Does Not Exist. End of Story....
Reply #300 - Mar 26^th, 2015 at 5:41pm

So what he's effectively saying is that the only thing keeping him from being a rapist and a murderer is his belief in a god?

The HUGE flaw in Robertson's "reasoning" is that he does not believe that people are capable of being moral and ethical without being terrified into it by threats of a vengeful god and a horrifying hell. He equates lack of belief in god with lack of belief in right and wrong.

“Decapitate her head off”: Phil Robertson’s vile message to atheists

"You're the one who says there is no God, there's no right, there's no wrong, so we're just having fun"

At the Vero Beach Prayer Breakfast on Friday morning, Phil Robertson waxed on uninterrupted about some kind of grotesque fantasy situation in which a family of atheists is bound, gagged and raped. That the “Duck Dynasty” clan leader has a national platform upon which to spew bullshit is basically an indictment of our whole society, but that is perhaps beside the point.

“I’ll make a bet with you,” Robertson said in the talk which was later broadcast on Christian conservative radio host Rick Wiles’ program, “Trunews.” “Two guys break into an atheist’s home. He has a little atheist wife and two little atheist daughters. Two guys break into his home and tie him up in a chair and gag him.

“Then they take his two daughters in front of him and rape both of them and then shoot them, and they take his wife and then decapitate her head off in front of him,” he said, “and then they can look at him and say, ‘Isn’t it great that I don’t have to worry about being judged? Isn’t it great that there’s nothing wrong with this? There’s no right or wrong, now, is it dude?”

“But you’re the one who says there is no God, there’s no right, there’s no wrong, so we’re just having fun. We’re sick in the head, have a nice day.”

So Robertson is argued that no atheist has ever had something bad happen? Or that no Christian has ever had something bad happen and questioned the existence of a God that might allow something like that? Would a benevolent God allow Robertson to spend eternity unpunished?

http://www.salon.com/2015/03/24/decapitate_her_head_off_phil_robertsons_vile_message_to_atheists/

http://www.salon.com/2015/03/24/decapitate_her_head_off_phil_robertsons_vile_message_to_atheists/#comments

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« Last Edit: Mar 26^th, 2015 at 6:09pm by vikaryan »

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Stratos Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 4725	Re: God Does Not Exist. End of Story.... Reply #301 - Mar 26^th, 2015 at 5:43pm I thought as far more offensive the Old Testament rule that made it required that the female rape victim be forced to marry their rapist, with there being no grounds for divorce ever. Deuteronomy 22:28 is the passage.
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vikaryan

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Re: God Does Not Exist. End of Story....
Reply #302 - Mar 26^th, 2015 at 6:30pm

vikaryan wrote on Mar 26^th, 2015 at 5:41pm:

So what he's effectively saying is that the only thing keeping him from being a rapist and a murderer is his belief in a god?

The HUGE flaw in Robertson's "reasoning" is that he does not believe that people are capable of being moral and ethical without being terrified into it by threats of a vengeful god and a horrifying hell. He equates lack of belief in god with lack of belief in right and wrong.

“Decapitate her head off”: Phil Robertson’s vile message to atheists

http://www.salon.com/2015/03/24/decapitate_her_head_off_phil_robertsons_vile_message_to_atheists/#comments

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Setanta

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Re: God Does Not Exist. End of Story....
Reply #303 - Mar 26^th, 2015 at 6:36pm

Stratos wrote on Mar 26^th, 2015 at 5:43pm:

I thought as far more offensive the Old Testament rule that made it required that the female rape victim be forced to marry their rapist, with there being no grounds for divorce ever.

Deuteronomy 22:28 is the passage.

Shaving their heads and letting them mourn their murdered family for a month or so makes it all good though, doesn't it? Undecided

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Setanta

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Re: God Does Not Exist. End of Story....
Reply #304 - Mar 26^th, 2015 at 6:36pm

vikaryan wrote on Mar 26^th, 2015 at 6:30pm:

vikaryan wrote on Mar 26^th, 2015 at 5:41pm:

So what he's effectively saying is that the only thing keeping him from being a rapist and a murderer is his belief in a god?

The HUGE flaw in Robertson's "reasoning" is that he does not believe that people are capable of being moral and ethical without being terrified into it by threats of a vengeful god and a horrifying hell. He equates lack of belief in god with lack of belief in right and wrong.

“Decapitate her head off”: Phil Robertson’s vile message to atheists

http://www.salon.com/2015/03/24/decapitate_her_head_off_phil_robertsons_vile_message_to_atheists/#comments

Who's the bearded guy, kinda looks like me. Grin

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vikaryan

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Re: God Does Not Exist. End of Story....
Reply #305 - Mar 26^th, 2015 at 7:00pm

Setanta wrote on Mar 26^th, 2015 at 6:36pm:

vikaryan wrote on Mar 26^th, 2015 at 6:30pm:

vikaryan wrote on Mar 26^th, 2015 at 5:41pm:

So what he's effectively saying is that the only thing keeping him from being a rapist and a murderer is his belief in a god?

The HUGE flaw in Robertson's "reasoning" is that he does not believe that people are capable of being moral and ethical without being terrified into it by threats of a vengeful god and a horrifying hell. He equates lack of belief in god with lack of belief in right and wrong.

“Decapitate her head off”: Phil Robertson’s vile message to atheists

http://www.salon.com/2015/03/24/decapitate_her_head_off_phil_robertsons_vile_message_to_atheists/#comments

Who's the bearded guy, kinda looks like me. Grin

Duck Dynasty's Phil Robertson uses child rape to criticize atheists

Duck Dynasty's Phil Robertson gives shocking speech at a religious meeting using rape, murder, child rape and castration to criticize atheists

Atheists are the latest group that controversial Duck Dynasty patriarch Phil Robertson has decided to train in his cross hairs.

At a Florida prayer meeting last week, the 68-year-old used a very graphic and brutal story about murder, castration and child rape to explain the inherent problems with non-believers.

In his lucrative second career as a Christian speaker, Robertson used the hypothetical situation to illustrate whether or those who don't believe in God can know right from wrong.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3011807/Duck-Dynasty-s-Phil-Robertson-gives-shocking-speech-religious-meeting-using-rape-murder-child-rape-castration-criticize-atheists.html

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Setanta Gold Member Offline \/ Peace man! Posts: 16616 Northern NSW Gender:	Re: God Does Not Exist. End of Story.... Reply #306 - Mar 26^th, 2015 at 7:15pm OK, so it's Phil Robertson. Good looking dude even if he's an idiot.
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vikaryan

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Re: God Does Not Exist. End of Story....
Reply #307 - Mar 27^th, 2015 at 8:03am

vikaryan wrote on Mar 26^th, 2015 at 7:00pm:

Setanta wrote on Mar 26^th, 2015 at 6:36pm:

vikaryan wrote on Mar 26^th, 2015 at 6:30pm:

vikaryan wrote on Mar 26^th, 2015 at 5:41pm:

So what he's effectively saying is that the only thing keeping him from being a rapist and a murderer is his belief in a god?

The HUGE flaw in Robertson's "reasoning" is that he does not believe that people are capable of being moral and ethical without being terrified into it by threats of a vengeful god and a horrifying hell. He equates lack of belief in god with lack of belief in right and wrong.

“Decapitate her head off”: Phil Robertson’s vile message to atheists

http://www.salon.com/2015/03/24/decapitate_her_head_off_phil_robertsons_vile_message_to_atheists/#comments

Who's the bearded guy, kinda looks like me. Grin

Duck Dynasty's Phil Robertson uses child rape to criticize atheists

Duck Dynasty's Phil Robertson gives shocking speech at a religious meeting using rape, murder, child rape and castration to criticize atheists

Atheists are the latest group that controversial Duck Dynasty patriarch Phil Robertson has decided to train in his cross hairs.

At a Florida prayer meeting last week, the 68-year-old used a very graphic and brutal story about murder, castration and child rape to explain the inherent problems with non-believers.

In his lucrative second career as a Christian speaker, Robertson used the hypothetical situation to illustrate whether or those who don't believe in God can know right from wrong.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3011807/Duck-Dynasty-s-Phil-Robertson-gives-shocking-speech-religious-meeting-using-rape-murder-child-rape-castration-criticize-atheists.html

The problem with this — other than it’s somewhat disturbing the sort of things Robertson fantasizes about — is it’s a straw man depiction of what atheists think. About the only thing Robertson gets right is the fact that atheists don’t think there’s a God or Gods that’ll judge the killers for their actions.
To suggest that that means we don’t think there’s such a thing as right and wrong is simply not true.
I’ve yet to meet an atheist who has espoused the sincerely held belief that there is no right or wrong.

It’s not difficult to come up with a moral system that doesn’t rely on edicts from God(s) to establish right and wrong. There are several different systems of Secular Morality already. Ranging from Secular Humanism to Freethinking to Consequentialism.

On top of that, the morality depicted in the Bible is not only questionable at best, but God himself has a hard time adhering to it. At various times he’s commanded his followers to break any number of the Ten Commandments he supposedly considered so important he wrote them down for us. Apparently it’s OK to break the rules when God commands you to.
In fact, if the fictional killers in Robertson’s twisted tale were acting under the orders of God I’m willing to bet that Robertson, had he some reason to believe that were indeed the case, would consider them perfectly justified in following through on them. It wouldn’t be the first time God had ordered his followers to wipe out people He considered bad (see the tale of Vengeance on the Midianites in Numbers 31: 1-47 for a great example).

http://stupidevilbastard.com/2015/03/phil-robertson-uses-a-straw-man-argument-to-make-a-stupid-point/

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vikaryan

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Re: God Does Not Exist. End of Story....
Reply #308 - Mar 27^th, 2015 at 8:36am

vikaryan wrote on Mar 27^th, 2015 at 8:03am:

vikaryan wrote on Mar 26^th, 2015 at 7:00pm:

Setanta wrote on Mar 26^th, 2015 at 6:36pm:

vikaryan wrote on Mar 26^th, 2015 at 6:30pm:

vikaryan wrote on Mar 26^th, 2015 at 5:41pm:

So what he's effectively saying is that the only thing keeping him from being a rapist and a murderer is his belief in a god?

The HUGE flaw in Robertson's "reasoning" is that he does not believe that people are capable of being moral and ethical without being terrified into it by threats of a vengeful god and a horrifying hell. He equates lack of belief in god with lack of belief in right and wrong.

“Decapitate her head off”: Phil Robertson’s vile message to atheists

http://www.salon.com/2015/03/24/decapitate_her_head_off_phil_robertsons_vile_message_to_atheists/#comments

Who's the bearded guy, kinda looks like me. Grin

Duck Dynasty's Phil Robertson uses child rape to criticize atheists

Duck Dynasty's Phil Robertson gives shocking speech at a religious meeting using rape, murder, child rape and castration to criticize atheists

Atheists are the latest group that controversial Duck Dynasty patriarch Phil Robertson has decided to train in his cross hairs.

At a Florida prayer meeting last week, the 68-year-old used a very graphic and brutal story about murder, castration and child rape to explain the inherent problems with non-believers.

In his lucrative second career as a Christian speaker, Robertson used the hypothetical situation to illustrate whether or those who don't believe in God can know right from wrong.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3011807/Duck-Dynasty-s-Phil-Robertson-gives-shocking-speech-religious-meeting-using-rape-murder-child-rape-castration-criticize-atheists.html

The problem with this — other than it’s somewhat disturbing the sort of things Robertson fantasizes about — is it’s a straw man depiction of what atheists think. About the only thing Robertson gets right is the fact that atheists don’t think there’s a God or Gods that’ll judge the killers for their actions.
To suggest that that means we don’t think there’s such a thing as right and wrong is simply not true.
I’ve yet to meet an atheist who has espoused the sincerely held belief that there is no right or wrong.

It’s not difficult to come up with a moral system that doesn’t rely on edicts from God(s) to establish right and wrong. There are several different systems of Secular Morality already. Ranging from Secular Humanism to Freethinking to Consequentialism.

On top of that, the morality depicted in the Bible is not only questionable at best, but God himself has a hard time adhering to it. At various times he’s commanded his followers to break any number of the Ten Commandments he supposedly considered so important he wrote them down for us. Apparently it’s OK to break the rules when God commands you to.
In fact, if the fictional killers in Robertson’s twisted tale were acting under the orders of God I’m willing to bet that Robertson, had he some reason to believe that were indeed the case, would consider them perfectly justified in following through on them. It wouldn’t be the first time God had ordered his followers to wipe out people He considered bad (see the tale of Vengeance on the Midianites in Numbers 31: 1-47 for a great example).

http://stupidevilbastard.com/2015/03/phil-robertson-uses-a-straw-man-argument-to-make-a-stupid-point/

PTSloan

What do you expect from a man who worships a religion that would force a woman or young girl to marry her rapist.

Deuteronomy 22:28-29

http://www.salon.com/2015/03/24/decapitate_her_head_off_phil_robertsons_vile_message_to_atheists/#lf_comment=287156740

Angry

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vikaryan

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Re: God Does Not Exist. End of Story....
Reply #309 - Mar 27^th, 2015 at 2:35pm

The Tao of Cherrypicking

I would argue that both scholars and non-scholarly theists believe in the validity of Bible passages they feel are true. In fact, this is a legitimate form of Biblical interpretation practiced by some Christians.

However, the problem with this God-guided method of Biblical interpretation is that it has ultimately led to 41,000 different denominations of Christianity! It has led to wars such as the Crusades and the multitude of European wars following the onset of Protestantism. In the end, people believe in that which conforms to their preconceived ideas of history, science, and morality. For example, studies have shown that Christians tend to believe Jesus would be in favor of the social issues they consider the most important.

http://humanistsofmn.org/humanist-media/press-releases/261-the-tao-of-cherrypicking

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Soren

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Re: God Does Not Exist. End of Story....
Reply #310 - Mar 27^th, 2015 at 7:27pm

Stratos wrote on Mar 24^th, 2015 at 9:43pm:

The Aztecs built pyramids and believed that unless they made human sacrifices the world would end. The Chinese have built one of the strongest countries on the planet, but many take numerology extremely seriously. Christians have given us some of the greatest architecture and art ever made, but justified the transatlantic slave trade with their holy book. If you look at any culture you will find good and bad. Just because a culture came up with something remarkable does not mean their beliefs are true.

If you look at any culture- from what uncontested vantage point, what uncontested set of values (ie religious outlook) do you do that?

Stratos wrote on Mar 24^th, 2015 at 9:43pm:

Soren wrote on Mar 24^th, 2015 at 8:52pm:

God is in art, literature, music, interpersonal relationships, family, friendship, hope, love and kindness - none of these are scientific and so none of these would show up on your ledger of acceptable proofs.

All of these are real and observable Soren. We do need a deity to explain them.

Real and observable?? Muslims killed a couple of French journalists because these things are not simply 'real and observable.

More importantly, though (if that is possible in our time without being frivolous) - how many hearts have been broken by lost love that was thought to be 'real and observable"? Romantic, parental, sibling, friendly loves? Science and logical positivism is no guide to life.

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« Last Edit: Mar 28^th, 2015 at 11:07am by Soren »

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Amadd

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Re: God Does Not Exist. End of Story....
Reply #311 - Mar 28^th, 2015 at 12:38am

Soren wrote on Mar 27^th, 2015 at 7:27pm:

Stratos wrote on Mar 24^th, 2015 at 9:43pm:

The Aztecs built pyramids and believed that unless they made human sacrifices the world would end. The Chinese have built one of the strongest countries on the planet, but many take numerology extremely seriously. Christians have given us some of the greatest architecture and art ever made, but justified the transatlantic slave trade with their holy book. If you look at any culture you will find good and bad. Just because a culture came up with something remarkable does not mean their beliefs are true.

If you look at any culture- from what uncontested vantaghe point, what uncontested set of values (ie religious outlook) do you do that?

Stratos wrote on Mar 24^th, 2015 at 9:43pm:

Soren wrote on Mar 24^th, 2015 at 8:52pm:

God is in art, literature, music, interpersonal relationships, family, friendship, hope, love and kindness - none of these are scientific and so none of these would show up on your ledger of acceptable proofs.

All of these are real and observable Soren. We do need a deity to explain them.

Real and observable?? Muslims killed a couple of French journalists because these things are not simply 'real and observable.

More importantly, though (if that is possible in our time without being frivolous) - how many hearts have been broken by lost love that was thought to be 'real and observable"? Romantic, parental, sibling, friendly loves? Science and logical positivism is no guide to life.

Common sense is a decent enough guide. Common sense tells me that the unrequited love will be easily dismissed with a tattslotto win or some rock star status.

Then god's will of love has gone by the wayside. Why? Because humans are animals too and they seek the best outcome for their offspring.

I really don't know why you complicate the matter with some heebeejeebeee order from god.

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« Last Edit: Mar 28^th, 2015 at 3:17pm by Amadd »

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Amadd Gold Member Offline Mo Posts: 6217	Re: God Does Not Exist. End of Story.... Reply #312 - Mar 28^th, 2015 at 2:40am Broken hearts are real and observable in an animalistic manner. Somewhat fleeting.
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Soren

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Re: God Does Not Exist. End of Story....
Reply #313 - Mar 28^th, 2015 at 9:42am

Amadd wrote on Mar 28^th, 2015 at 12:38am:

Common sense is a decent enough guide.

That is exactly what religion is - common, shared customs and values and ways of perceiving.

Now common sense is fragmented and is not common or shared any more. There is no 'common', uncontested vantage point. There is no sense we all hold in common - there is all sorts of diversity, that is to say, people now believe in anything and nothing.

Amadd wrote on Mar 28^th, 2015 at 12:38am:

Because humans are animals too

I don't think so. We may share 98% of our biology with apes but I have not any books written by apes, music composed, city built - have you? No.

We are very much different from animals in just the things that really matter, that make you a person, an individual.

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« Last Edit: Mar 28^th, 2015 at 11:09am by Soren »

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Amadd

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Re: God Does Not Exist. End of Story....
Reply #314 - Mar 28^th, 2015 at 10:30pm

Soren wrote on Mar 28^th, 2015 at 9:42am:

Amadd wrote on Mar 28^th, 2015 at 12:38am:

Common sense is a decent enough guide.

That is exactly what religion is - common, shared customs and values and ways of perceiving.

Now common sense is fragmented and is not common or shared any more. There is no 'common', uncontested vantage point. There is no sense we all hold in common - there is all sorts of diversity, that is to say, people now believe in anything and nothing.

Amadd wrote on Mar 28^th, 2015 at 12:38am:

Because humans are animals too

I don't think so. We may share 98% of our biology with apes but I have not any books written by apes, music composed, city built - have you? No.

We are very much different from animals in just the things that really matter, that make you a person, an individual.

Well, there are plenty of things that different animals can do that humans cannot. Our traits make us the dominant species but we are still mammals.
We act out our ancient traits every day. Some are useful and some are not in our modern world. Belief in gods is just another of those traits IMO.

According to Julian Jaynes, our self-awareness may be a relatively new addition to our species.
http://www.scaruffi.com/mind/jaynes.html

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