Australian Politics Forum - God Does Not Exist. End of Story....

Stratos Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 4725	Re: God Does Not Exist. End of Story.... Reply #435 - Apr 20^th, 2015 at 6:34pm Soren wrote on Apr 20^th, 2015 at 6:11pm: you are the one who will settle for nothing less than making god fit your anthropomorphic demands. Speaking of which, did you ever get around to mentioning the properties of the god you believe in? Do you actually believe in a deity?
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John_Taverner

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Re: God Does Not Exist. End of Story....
Reply #436 - Apr 21^st, 2015 at 9:50am

Soren wrote on Apr 20^th, 2015 at 6:09pm:

You are anthropomorphising.

You mean like Genesis 1:27 kind of anthropomorphising?

(In his own image)

Does that mean "in his own image", except for....... the ability to learn from mistakes etc ?

Who gets to pick and choose?
- and who gets to pick and choose the exceptions to omnipotence?

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Amadd

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Re: God Does Not Exist. End of Story....
Reply #437 - Apr 21^st, 2015 at 10:25pm

An educated guess is surely better than holding onto a belief in total bs isn't it?

Seemingly not, as there is no definition forthcoming of the god that supposedly exists.
How is it even possible to debate the belief of something in which you have no definition?

But they do it. They do it constantly and they do it ardently....with no defining belief.

Why don't they just admit that they need certainty?
They're not willing to use their own brains. They are totally lost without somebody instructing them what to do.

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John_Taverner

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Re: God Does Not Exist. End of Story....
Reply #438 - Apr 22^nd, 2015 at 11:17am

Amadd wrote on Apr 21^st, 2015 at 10:25pm:

An educated guess is surely better than holding onto a belief in total bs isn't it?

Seemingly not, as there is no definition forthcoming of the god that supposedly exists.
How is it even possible to debate the belief of something in which you have no definition?

But they do it. They do it constantly and they do it ardently....with no defining belief.

Why don't they just admit that they need certainty?
They're not willing to use their own brains. They are totally lost without somebody instructing them what to do.

You don't get it. It's not the intellectual argument or some kind of debate, as you think it is.

They do use their brains and they directly experience, or have convinced themselves that they experience, God.

The more zealous among them have conversations with God or see signs that are convincing manifestations of God.

How can you begin to define a God that is central to your very existence? How do you describe the light, the love and even the evil?

To come to any other realisation is painful, and it takes a long time to recover. It can ruin lives. "God" takes his revenge on those who stop believing.

"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things."

Isaiah 45:7

I suffer from that evil even now, but I know that it's a result of the journey that I put my mind through.

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« Last Edit: Apr 22^nd, 2015 at 11:44am by John_Taverner »

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Soren

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Re: God Does Not Exist. End of Story....
Reply #439 - Apr 22^nd, 2015 at 8:24pm

Stratos wrote on Apr 20^th, 2015 at 6:34pm:

Soren wrote on Apr 20^th, 2015 at 6:11pm:

you are the one who will settle for nothing less than making god fit your anthropomorphic demands.

Speaking of which, did you ever get around to mentioning the properties of the god you believe in?

Do you mean material qualities?

None. By definition, none.

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Soren

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Re: God Does Not Exist. End of Story....
Reply #440 - Apr 22^nd, 2015 at 8:30pm

Amadd wrote on Apr 21^st, 2015 at 10:25pm:

An educated guess is surely better than holding onto a belief in total bs isn't it?

Seemingly not, as there is no definition forthcoming of the god that supposedly exists.
How is it even possible to debate the belief of something in which you have no definition?

But they do it. They do it constantly and they do it ardently....with no defining belief.

Why don't they just admit that they need certainty?
They're not willing to use their own brains. They are totally lost without somebody instructing them what to do.

A definition requires an undisputed, common grounding of shared meaning - a specification, an accepted and shared meaning.

It must have completely passed over your pin head but the ENTIRE debate, over centuries, has been due to the LACK of such a shared common ground.

And to think that you and your kind expect to be taken seriously simply because you utter.

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John_Taverner

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Re: God Does Not Exist. End of Story....
Reply #441 - Apr 22^nd, 2015 at 9:03pm

Soren wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2015 at 8:30pm:

A definition requires an undisputed, common grounding of shared meaning - a specification, an accepted and shared meaning.

It must have completely passed over your pin head but the ENTIRE debate, over centuries, has been due to the LACK of such a shared common ground.

And to think that you and your kind expect to be taken seriously simply because you utter.

I misjudged you. You seem to be an atheist arguing for God. (why?) Your argument is dry and philosophical. Are you a theologian?

There is nothing dry and philosophical about a living God. You can't expect to be taken seriously.

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« Last Edit: Apr 22^nd, 2015 at 9:10pm by John_Taverner »

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Stratos Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 4725	Re: God Does Not Exist. End of Story.... Reply #442 - Apr 22^nd, 2015 at 9:25pm Soren wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2015 at 8:24pm: Do you mean material qualities? any will do Actually for that matter, I'm curious as to why you a deity by "definition" would have no material properties?
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John_Taverner Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 2212 Gender:	Re: God Does Not Exist. End of Story.... Reply #443 - Apr 22^nd, 2015 at 9:48pm Stratos wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2015 at 9:25pm: Soren wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2015 at 8:24pm: Do you mean material qualities? any will do Actually for that matter, I'm curious as to why you a deity by "definition" would have no material properties? A deity is supernatural.
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Stratos Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 4725	Re: God Does Not Exist. End of Story.... Reply #444 - Apr 22^nd, 2015 at 9:50pm John_Taverner wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2015 at 9:48pm: A deity is supernatural. Doesn't mean it isn't also material. I don't see why supernatural entities couldn't also have material properties.
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John_Taverner Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 2212 Gender:	Re: God Does Not Exist. End of Story.... Reply #445 - Apr 23^rd, 2015 at 8:40am Stratos wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2015 at 9:50pm: John_Taverner wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2015 at 9:48pm: A deity is supernatural. Doesn't mean it isn't also material. I don't see why supernatural entities couldn't also have material properties. Is this conclusion based on your experience of supernatural entities?
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Stratos

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Re: God Does Not Exist. End of Story....
Reply #446 - Apr 23^rd, 2015 at 9:16am

John_Taverner wrote on Apr 23^rd, 2015 at 8:40am:

Is this conclusion based on your experience of supernatural entities?

I (obviously) have no experience with supernatural entities. However, as a thought experiment I can't see why a supernatural being can't also have material properties.

I see no reason why supernatural and material would be mutually exclusive properties.

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Pete Waldo wrote on Jan 15^th, 2014 at 11:24pm:

Thus killing those Canaanite babies while they were still innocent, was a particularly merciful act

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John_Taverner

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Re: God Does Not Exist. End of Story....
Reply #447 - Apr 23^rd, 2015 at 3:05pm

Stratos wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2015 at 9:50pm:

John_Taverner wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2015 at 9:48pm:

A deity is supernatural.

Doesn't mean it isn't also material. I don't see why supernatural entities couldn't also have material properties.

Two possibilities there:

1. Has material properties
2. Does not have material properties.

What is your evidence for 1.? A thought experiment? Don't be daft.

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Soren

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Re: God Does Not Exist. End of Story....
Reply #448 - Apr 23^rd, 2015 at 6:38pm

Stratos wrote on Apr 23^rd, 2015 at 9:16am:

John_Taverner wrote on Apr 23^rd, 2015 at 8:40am:

Is this conclusion based on your experience of supernatural entities?

I (obviously) have no experience with supernatural entities. However, as a thought experiment I can't see why a supernatural being can't also have material properties.

I see no reason why supernatural and material would be mutually exclusive properties.

You are god's material properties.

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Soren

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Re: God Does Not Exist. End of Story....
Reply #449 - Apr 23^rd, 2015 at 6:44pm

John_Taverner wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2015 at 9:03pm:

Soren wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2015 at 8:30pm:

A definition requires an undisputed, common grounding of shared meaning - a specification, an accepted and shared meaning.

It must have completely passed over your pin head but the ENTIRE debate, over centuries, has been due to the LACK of such a shared common ground.

And to think that you and your kind expect to be taken seriously simply because you utter.

I misjudged you. You seem to be an atheist arguing for God. (why?) Your argument is dry and philosophical. Are you a theologian?

There is nothing dry and philosophical about a living God. You can't expect to be taken seriously.

Dry and philosophical? Is that what you kids call it?
I don't think your argument is particularly moist or 'resistant to categories of reason as a Western intellectual construct in the service of the ruling class'. Or whatever is the opposite of philosophical you think is.

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