LifeOrDeath wrote on Aug 5^th, 2015 at 1:20am:


I've always had a small bone to pick with the biblical doctrine requiring faith in the correct doctrine before salvation.

I understand that for faith to be genuine then compulsion must be avoided.
However if a person has not been exposed to the correct doctrine(whatever that is) they are damned to Hell, regardless of the way they have lived their lives.

On one hand, you could have an Eskimo, who through no fault of their own has not been exposed to Christianity. Conventional doctrine states that this person has not be saved and will therefore go to hell, regardless of whether they have lived life in accordance with Christian values.

On the other, you have a mafioso who has lived a life of murder and sin who goes to heaven because of a death bed repentance and confession.   

These two people are predicted to have opposite fates after death, regardless of their actual choices in life. The only reason for this divergence is that one(the mafioso) has the good fortune to be born in a Christian society, whereas the Eskimo does not.

Why did god allow some people the opportunity to be saved then deny others?

Pho Huc wrote on Aug 5^th, 2015 at 3:18pm:



Very silly question and I am not much surprised that you have reprised it.

Whoever has ears, let them hear.

Conventional doctrine states nothing of the kind you attribute to it re the Eskimo. Your ignorance states it, nothing else. 
Go ahead, show us where 'conventional doctrine' states that those who have never heard of Jesus will go to hell. 
You have to be slightly more learned to challenge things you disagree with.

Repost of a joke I found ages ago........

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A Pagan Goes to Hell
A Pagan dies and, to his great surprise, he finds himself standing before some pearly gates. The Pagan asks, "Where am I?"

Peter says, "You're at the gates of heaven."

The Pagan says, "But I don't believe in heaven."

Peter frowns at him. "You're one of those Pagans, aren't you?"

"Yes. I believe I'm in the wrong place; I'm supposed to go to Valhalla."

Peter says, "Sorry. We took over Valhalla, and it's temporarily closed for renovations."

"What should I do now?"

Peter says, "Well, since we don't allow Pagans in heaven, you have to go to hell. Sorry. Just follow that path that leads downward and to the left."

The Pagan walks down to hell, where the gates are standing open. He walks in and finds beautiful meadows, happy animals, and clear streams of water.

He walks on in and begins exploring, and after a few minutes a courtly gentleman walks up to him and bows politely. "Hello, I'm Satan. You must be the guy that St. Peter phoned me about. Are you a Pagan?"

"Yes, I am. What's going to happen to me now?"

Satan says, "Well, the fishing's pretty good, if you enjoy that sort of thing. There's a little refreshment stand down the road. And I believe the Pagan meeting grounds are right over the next hill."

Suddenly, a hole opens up in the sky above, and a yawning chasm opens directly underneath it. The stench of sulfur fills the air. Hundreds of screaming, tortured souls drop down into the flaming pit, which immediately closes up with a thud.

The Pagan, hardly believing what he just saw, asks Satan, "And what was THAT???"

Satan rolls his eyes. "Oh, just ignore them. They're Christians; they wouldn't have it any other way."

Pho Huc wrote on Aug 5^th, 2015 at 9:50pm:


You can drop the muslim allah from that list he has nothing to do with the others he has no savior nor son. In fact history shows he was just a made up character in the quran written by a caliph. Christ calls him a man made false god and clearly he was right.

The answer to the question relates to God's nature, His revelation and our response. Biblically speaking, God is holy, just, unchanging and all-loving. This means that God will always do what is right.

When it comes to God's revelation, theologians divide these into God's special and general revelation. His special revelation includes the Bible and Christ. These are both direct and special means of God revealing Himself to us. General revelation, sometimes called natural revelation, consists of what God has revealed of Himself via the natural world and moral conscience.

Two passages in Romans further explain general revelation: "For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities – his eternal power and divine nature – have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse" (Romans 1:20) and "the requirements of the law are written on their hearts" (Romans 2:15). Taken together these passages claim that everyone has an inherent knowledge of God, that this can be clearly known from creation and that everyone also has a God-given moral compass.

Is it true, then, that "those who have never heard," really have no idea of God's existence or of their moral responsibilities? Biblically speaking, it's not true. "Those who have never heard" have heard something and they do have access to key information about God. They know that God exists, that there is a moral standard and that they have broken this standard.

LifeOrDeath wrote on Aug 5^th, 2015 at 11:40pm:




Do you see the irony in missing the punch line about christian obsession with hell, Then remaking a lawyer joke into a hell joke and setting me there personally? 

What have I said that makes you believe i'm not a christian?

regarding your other far superior post,

I just asked you for clarification regarding the implications of the scripture you posted, and complemented the quality of the post. I'm genuinely curious about how one would enter heaven relying solely on natural revelation.

Pho Huc wrote on Aug 5^th, 2015 at 11:56pm:




Pho Huc wrote on Aug 6^th, 2015 at 12:28am:


Really  ?

You have to ask ?



Acts 10:34
Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
35  But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

No ?



Romans 2:11
For there is no respect of persons with God.
12  For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
13  (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
14  For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
15  Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)

"For there is no respect of persons with God."

Acts 10:34, Romans 2:11 = = God isn't going to accept/redeem a person coz he's a Bishop or a 'papa' in the Christian church, or even accept/redeem a person just coz he/she has attended church 3 times a week for the last 30 years [i.e. 'gone through the motions', of being a Christian].



This Romans 2:28-29 applies to the Christian too!! ------- >

Romans 2:28
For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
29  But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.


Psalms 73:1
Truly God is good to Israel, even to such as are of a clean heart.




Jeremiah 9:25
Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will punish all them which are circumcised with the uncircumcised;
26  Egypt, and Judah, and Edom, and the children of Ammon, and Moab, and all that are in the utmost corners, that dwell in the wilderness: for all these nations are uncircumcised, and all the house of Israel are uncircumcised in the heart.


Jeremiah 9:23
Thus saith the LORD, Let not the wise man glory in his wisdom, neither let the mighty man glory in his might, let not the rich man glory in his riches:
24  But let him that glorieth glory in this, that he understandeth and knoweth me, that I am the LORD which exercise lovingkindness, judgment, and righteousness, in the earth: for in these things I delight, saith the LORD.



Jesus is a rallying point, a standard [an 'identifier'] in battle, to rally around.

Reason dictates, that if we love Jesus,      we will love what God loves, and hate what God hates.

No ?


http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1435998745/0#0


Deuteronomy 8:2
And thou shalt remember all the way which the LORD thy God led thee these forty years in the wilderness, to humble thee, and to prove thee, to know what was in thine heart, whether thou wouldest keep his commandments, or no.



Psalms 111:10
The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: a good understanding have all they that do his commandments: his praise endureth for ever.


Proverbs 9:10
The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding.


Isaiah 11:1
And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots:
2  And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD;