Brian Ross wrote on Apr 4^th, 2015 at 3:50pm:


Oh, the old boy knows what he's talking about alright. The question is, is such fappery stupid or mendacious?

Sometimes a question is just a question, you know.

Brian Ross wrote on Apr 4^th, 2015 at 3:50pm:

Yes, Muslims who have abandoned the tenets of Islam.

Please note what I said:
On what basis can we say that is compatible with Western traditions of freedom and individual rights?



And so what matters is not whether you are born Muslim but whether you adhere to it as a grown up.  (With the added risk of being murdered for apostasy by your fellow Muslims. But that is still a very low risk in the West, even as it is a huge risk in Pakistan, Iraq, Saudi, and other fully Muslim jurisdictions.).

Soren wrote on Apr 4^th, 2015 at 5:14pm:


Quite so, old boy. Very few Muslims convert to Lutheranism.

Isn't it.

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This is unfathomable to you isn't it? You keep lying, and we keep pulling you up on it. Why is this happening to you? We are being petty aren't we?

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Which story Gandalf? It keeps changing as every detail turns out to be a lie.

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One at a time Gandalf. One at a time. If I accept your premise that we must ignore the little lies and focus instead on the bigger truth you try to make out of them, where does the argument go? Exactly where you want - vague, meaningless spin where one opinion is just as valid as the other and there is no recourse to facts.

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One lie at a time Gandalf. Let's start with, was there a second line?

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No Gandalf. I did not use the term plot. Nor did I use the term conspiracy. I described it as "Muslims doing what Muslims do". This comes naturally to you.

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Do you want me to go over all the lies again Gandalf? Shall we start with your original thread title?

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You built it Gandalf, not me. This is simply what you do, remember? It's OK to lie so long long as it is in the interest a greater truth.

freediver wrote on Apr 4^th, 2015 at 6:27pm:


Oh dear FD - we tried to get to the bottom of this one before, and we didn't have much luck. Could we possibly have another crack at it? How about you make another list of these lies of mine, and then when I explain to you the definition of a lie, and how these do not apply, you can then once again deny you ever meant them as lies. Then when we've all forgotton about the fact that you couldn't actually cite any instances of me lying, you can accuse me all over again of lying. I think thats how it works. But who can blame you? - when you spent so much time building this whole thing up as "muslims doing what they do (lying)" - and then finally reveal that I am the only "muslim" (singular - but we'll allow that one to pass) you can come up with as the culprit - its understandable that you feel compelled to keep persisting with this farcical accusation against me.

freediver wrote on Apr 4^th, 2015 at 6:27pm:


Well it is 50% of your huge list of muslim lies, so its a pretty vital asset to your whole case wouldn't you say? - its that plus the hundreds of muslims claim - which as you revealed last post, is a horrendous sinister lie by virtue of the fact that its a claim that we can't be sure about. Have a missed any others?

freediver wrote on Apr 4^th, 2015 at 6:27pm:


Yes that would be great thanks. Please correct me if I'm wrong: As I understand it, this is a most outrageous muslim non-conspiracy to conceal the threat of Islam because: 1. a row of people standing together doesn't look to you like a "line" as claimed and 2. you can't be sure whether or not there are hundreds of muslims amongst a group of 1000+ people - as claimed.

Feel free to add anything I've missed - you know things that might actually suggest this was anything remotely like the sinister conspiracy plot err... taqqiya exercise to conceal the true threat of Islam you keep insisting it is.

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One at a time Gandalf: there was a second line consisting of hundreds of Muslims.

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When have I ever suggested you are the only one?

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I am sure about it. I have seen the photos.

So just to confirm FD - these two "lies" that form the basis of the whole story (a story that is "based on lies" - your words), and demonstrates such a sinister non-conspiracy by muslims to conceal the threat of Islam are 1. Disagreement over what constitutes a "line" of people and 2. your conviction (which no one seems to share with you) that there were not hundreds of muslims present?

Please step in at any time and point out anything I've left out.

freediver wrote on Apr 4^th, 2015 at 9:14pm:


And any suggestion to the contrary is a lie - right?

Yes - we are both sure that there is not hundreds of people wearing tea-towels and burqas. We both also know that there are muslims in the west who do not dress like the stereotypical muslim - exhibit A the small ring/line of muslims in front of the synagogue. We can also make an educated guess that a muslim event like this would most likely attract a larger number of, shall we say, 'progressive minded' muslims who are less likely to dress in stereotypical/traditional islamic garb.

In summary, assuming you can be sure about the number of muslims in a crowd simply by looking at how many people are wearing "islamic markers" - is flawed.

Have you at least worked out yet how this is not a lie?