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NorthOfNorth

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Islamism
Mar 1^st, 2015 at 3:03pm

An interesting point made by Maajid Nawaz - a once Islamist (now reformed) and jailed for some time in Egypt before rejecting Islamism and violent extremism.

Discussing the rise of Islamism over the last century... His take on it was that it began initially as a reaction to colonialism after WW1 which, over time, evolved into a perverted form of Islam particularly as the ideals of European Fascism were grafted onto it. The idea of a Muslim superstate governed by a 'superior' people, with Islam as the foundation of its values.... An Islamic perversion.

Nawaz goes on to reveal the process of his radicalisation which started on the streets of his English hometown with his older brother (who was already radicalised) confronting a group of English white supremacists out to (maybe) kill them. His brother (who knew where they lived) told them that as a Muslim he didn't fear death and would be prepared to strap a bomb to himself and take out these guys with their families...

Clearly he must have looked like he meant it because (as Nawaz recounts) the whites backed down.

This was his first sense that he as a Muslim could have power over these people through the solidarity of Islamism...

His life from that point careered into the Islamist world, resulting ultimately in his arrest in Egypt... He came out of incarceration renouncing Islamism and violence.

"My journey from prison was not an easy one to make. After all, there were many reasons for why I should not leave, and very few for why I should. The one reason that I could not ignore, the one reason that grew deep inside me till it consumed me with guilt was the realisation that I was abusing my faith for a mere political project. After learning through my studies in prison that Islamism was not the religion of Islam, but rather a modern political ideology, I no longer felt guilty simply for criticising a political system inspired by 7th century norms."

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Soren

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Re: Islamism
Reply #1 - Mar 1^st, 2015 at 3:55pm

NorthOfNorth wrote on Mar 1^st, 2015 at 3:03pm:

An interesting point made by Maajid Nawaz - a once Islamist (now reformed) and jailed for some time in Egypt before rejecting Islamism and violent extremism.

Discussing the rise of Islamism over the last century... His take on it was that it began initially as a reaction to colonialism after WW1 which, over time, evolved into a perverted form of Islam particularly as the ideals of European Fascism were grafted onto it. The idea of a Muslim superstate governed by a 'superior' people, with Islam as the foundation of its values.... An Islamic perversion.

Nawaz goes on to reveal the process of his radicalisation which started on the streets of his English hometown with his older brother (who was already radicalised) confronting a group of English white supremacists out to (maybe) kill them. His brother (who knew where they lived) told them that as a Muslim he didn't fear death and would be prepared to strap a bomb to himself and take out these guys with their families...

Clearly he must have looked like he meant it because (as Nawaz recounts) the whites backed down.

This was his first sense that he as a Muslim could have power over these people through the solidarity of Islamism...

His life from that point careered into the Islamist world, resulting ultimately in his arrest in Egypt... He came out of incarceration renouncing Islamism and violence.

"My journey from prison was not an easy one to make. After all, there were many reasons for why I should not leave, and very few for why I should. The one reason that I could not ignore, the one reason that grew deep inside me till it consumed me with guilt was the realisation that I was abusing my faith for a mere political project. After learning through my studies in prison that Islamism was not the religion of Islam, but rather a modern political ideology, I no longer felt guilty simply for criticising a political system inspired by 7th century norms."

AN interesting point, made by many people.

Only the naive and wilfully stupid do not realise by now that Islam is a political ideology.

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polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20027 Canberra Gender:	Re: Islamism Reply #2 - Mar 1^st, 2015 at 3:59pm Soren there are many muslims who are adamant their religion is not a political ideology. Myself included.
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NorthOfNorth Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 17258 Gender:	Re: Islamism Reply #3 - Mar 1^st, 2015 at 4:01pm Soren wrote on Mar 1^st, 2015 at 3:55pm: Only the naive and wilfully stupid do not realise by now that Islam is a political ideology. Any religious / social ideology is potentially a political ideology.
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Brian Ross Gold Member Offline Representative of me Posts: 41093	Re: Islamism Reply #4 - Mar 1^st, 2015 at 4:34pm Soren wrote on Mar 1^st, 2015 at 3:55pm: Only the naive and wilfully stupid do not realise by now that Islam is a political ideology. For all 1.6 Billion Muslims, Soren? The reality is that for the overwhelming majority, it's a religion. For a tiny minority, it has become a political ideology...
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SweetLambo

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Re: Islamism
Reply #5 - Mar 1^st, 2015 at 4:37pm

Brian Ross wrote on Mar 1^st, 2015 at 4:34pm:

Soren wrote on Mar 1^st, 2015 at 3:55pm:

Only the naive and wilfully stupid do not realise by now that Islam is a political ideology.

For all 1.6 Billion Muslims, Soren?

The reality is that for the overwhelming majority, it's a religion. For a tiny minority, it has become a political ideology... Roll Eyes

Prove its a tiny minority, a cursory look at the quaran tells any half educated watermelon that islam is just an ideology.

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The quran was not written by allah unless allah has no knowledge of science and historical facts. No quran or prophet mohammed existed until 60 years after mohammed's death.

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SweetLambo

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Re: Islamism
Reply #6 - Mar 1^st, 2015 at 4:38pm

NorthOfNorth wrote on Mar 1^st, 2015 at 4:01pm:

Soren wrote on Mar 1^st, 2015 at 3:55pm:

Only the naive and wilfully stupid do not realise by now that Islam is a political ideology.

Any religious / social ideology is potentially a political ideology.

Has the potential to be twisted into one ignoring their doctrine. I believe the point is Islam is just an ideology not a religion according to its doctrine.

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The quran was not written by allah unless allah has no knowledge of science and historical facts. No quran or prophet mohammed existed until 60 years after mohammed's death.

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Brian Ross

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Re: Islamism
Reply #7 - Mar 1^st, 2015 at 4:43pm

SweetLambo wrote on Mar 1^st, 2015 at 4:37pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Mar 1^st, 2015 at 4:34pm:

Soren wrote on Mar 1^st, 2015 at 3:55pm:

Only the naive and wilfully stupid do not realise by now that Islam is a political ideology.

For all 1.6 Billion Muslims, Soren?

The reality is that for the overwhelming majority, it's a religion. For a tiny minority, it has become a political ideology... Roll Eyes

Prove its a tiny minority, a cursory look at the quaran tells any half educated watermelon that islam is just an ideology.

Really? Prove it. Roll Eyes

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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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SweetLambo Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 1271	Re: Islamism Reply #8 - Mar 1^st, 2015 at 4:44pm I never thought you could prove its a tiny minority. As expected.
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SweetLambo

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Re: Islamism
Reply #9 - Mar 1^st, 2015 at 4:44pm

Soren wrote on Mar 1^st, 2015 at 3:55pm:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Mar 1^st, 2015 at 3:03pm:

An interesting point made by Maajid Nawaz - a once Islamist (now reformed) and jailed for some time in Egypt before rejecting Islamism and violent extremism.

Discussing the rise of Islamism over the last century... His take on it was that it began initially as a reaction to colonialism after WW1 which, over time, evolved into a perverted form of Islam particularly as the ideals of European Fascism were grafted onto it. The idea of a Muslim superstate governed by a 'superior' people, with Islam as the foundation of its values.... An Islamic perversion.

Nawaz goes on to reveal the process of his radicalisation which started on the streets of his English hometown with his older brother (who was already radicalised) confronting a group of English white supremacists out to (maybe) kill them. His brother (who knew where they lived) told them that as a Muslim he didn't fear death and would be prepared to strap a bomb to himself and take out these guys with their families...

Clearly he must have looked like he meant it because (as Nawaz recounts) the whites backed down.

This was his first sense that he as a Muslim could have power over these people through the solidarity of Islamism...

His life from that point careered into the Islamist world, resulting ultimately in his arrest in Egypt... He came out of incarceration renouncing Islamism and violence.

"My journey from prison was not an easy one to make. After all, there were many reasons for why I should not leave, and very few for why I should. The one reason that I could not ignore, the one reason that grew deep inside me till it consumed me with guilt was the realisation that I was abusing my faith for a mere political project. After learning through my studies in prison that Islamism was not the religion of Islam, but rather a modern political ideology, I no longer felt guilty simply for criticising a political system inspired by 7th century norms."

AN interesting point, made by many people.

Only the naive and wilfully stupid do not realise by now that Islam is a political ideology.

A disgusting one at that.

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The quran was not written by allah unless allah has no knowledge of science and historical facts. No quran or prophet mohammed existed until 60 years after mohammed's death.

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NorthOfNorth

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Re: Islamism
Reply #10 - Mar 1^st, 2015 at 5:06pm

SweetLambo wrote on Mar 1^st, 2015 at 4:37pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Mar 1^st, 2015 at 4:34pm:

Soren wrote on Mar 1^st, 2015 at 3:55pm:

Only the naive and wilfully stupid do not realise by now that Islam is a political ideology.

For all 1.6 Billion Muslims, Soren?

The reality is that for the overwhelming majority, it's a religion. For a tiny minority, it has become a political ideology... Roll Eyes

Prove its a tiny minority, a cursory look at the quaran tells any half educated watermelon that islam is just an ideology.

All religions are an ideology... Did you not know that?

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Conviction is the art of being certain

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Soren

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Re: Islamism
Reply #11 - Mar 1^st, 2015 at 5:20pm

Brian Ross wrote on Mar 1^st, 2015 at 4:34pm:

Soren wrote on Mar 1^st, 2015 at 3:55pm:

Only the naive and wilfully stupid do not realise by now that Islam is a political ideology.

For all 1.6 Billion Muslims, Soren?

The reality is that for the overwhelming majority, it's a religion. For a tiny minority, it has become a political ideology... Roll Eyes

Prove it.

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NorthOfNorth

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Re: Islamism
Reply #12 - Mar 1^st, 2015 at 5:32pm

SweetLambo wrote on Mar 1^st, 2015 at 4:38pm:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Mar 1^st, 2015 at 4:01pm:

Soren wrote on Mar 1^st, 2015 at 3:55pm:

Only the naive and wilfully stupid do not realise by now that Islam is a political ideology.

Any religious / social ideology is potentially a political ideology.

Has the potential to be twisted into one ignoring their doctrine. I believe the point is Islam is just an ideology not a religion according to its doctrine.

If you think that Islam does not (at least) meet the criteria of being a religion, then what are your criteria for anything being a religion?

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Conviction is the art of being certain

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SweetLambo

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Re: Islamism
Reply #13 - Mar 1^st, 2015 at 5:54pm

NorthOfNorth wrote on Mar 1^st, 2015 at 5:32pm:

SweetLambo wrote on Mar 1^st, 2015 at 4:38pm:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Mar 1^st, 2015 at 4:01pm:

Soren wrote on Mar 1^st, 2015 at 3:55pm:

Only the naive and wilfully stupid do not realise by now that Islam is a political ideology.

Any religious / social ideology is potentially a political ideology.

Has the potential to be twisted into one ignoring their doctrine. I believe the point is Islam is just an ideology not a religion according to its doctrine.

If you think that Islam does not (at least) meet the criteria of being a religion, then what are your criteria for anything being a religion?

Islam is not a religion because mohammed never even knew he was supposed to be a prophet. It was invented many decades after he was dead and buried. I suppose in a sense it was a false religion but nevertheless it was invented clearly to be simply a political ideology that sucked in an entire community who unfortunately were a bit slow in thought.

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The quran was not written by allah unless allah has no knowledge of science and historical facts. No quran or prophet mohammed existed until 60 years after mohammed's death.

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NorthOfNorth

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Re: Islamism
Reply #14 - Mar 1^st, 2015 at 6:00pm

SweetLambo wrote on Mar 1^st, 2015 at 5:54pm:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Mar 1^st, 2015 at 5:32pm:

SweetLambo wrote on Mar 1^st, 2015 at 4:38pm:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Mar 1^st, 2015 at 4:01pm:

Soren wrote on Mar 1^st, 2015 at 3:55pm:

Only the naive and wilfully stupid do not realise by now that Islam is a political ideology.

Any religious / social ideology is potentially a political ideology.

Has the potential to be twisted into one ignoring their doctrine. I believe the point is Islam is just an ideology not a religion according to its doctrine.

If you think that Islam does not (at least) meet the criteria of being a religion, then what are your criteria for anything being a religion?

Islam is not a religion because mohammed never even knew he was supposed to be a prophet. It was invented many decades after he was dead and buried. I suppose in a sense it was a false religion but nevertheless it was invented clearly to be simply a political ideology that sucked in an entire community who unfortunately were a bit slow in thought.

I think you'll find Christianity was 'invented' after the death of Jesus.

Do you have any criteria for anything being a religion?

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Conviction is the art of being certain

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