Australian Politics Forum - How to deal with ISIS Aussies?

freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49380 At my desk.	Re: How to deal with ISIS Aussies? Reply #15 - Mar 2^nd, 2015 at 7:38pm I imagine this must present a moral conundrum for you Brian. At what point do these terrorists become people of a different religion in a different country that you are not allowed to, or even able to criticise?
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NorthOfNorth

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Re: How to deal with ISIS Aussies?
Reply #16 - Mar 3^rd, 2015 at 7:24am

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 2^nd, 2015 at 3:41pm:

The second problem is Turkey. Its an open secret that Turkish authorities are turning a blind eye to IS smuggling people into Syria from Turkey, and its even less of a secret that Turkey is all but openly backing IS. So I think the first step to stopping IS recruitment on the international stage, is to apply far more pressure on Turkey - a member of NATO no less - to stop this little proxy game they are playing, and start clamping down on the smuggling.

Yes... Turkey - proving again that its NATO's problem child... A potential 'Judas' in its midst.

But, then again, Turkey's clear ambitions against and fears of their neighbours, (e.g. Assad, the Kurds), makes their involvement against IS exponentially more complicated than for others in the region.

No matter... IS will ultimately fail (I'd bet Turkey thinks so too) and I'm guessing Turkey's playing a waiting game in the expectation that the confusion following the IS collapse will deliver outcomes that favour Turkish ambitions.

One thing's for sure, though... the Kurds are going to come out the heroes at the end of this. That's something Turkey will not be able to diminish.

And that further resurgent sense of Kurdish identity and prowess that the defeat of IS will bring, Turkey fears more than IS.

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Conviction is the art of being certain

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Lord Herbert

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Re: How to deal with ISIS Aussies?
Reply #17 - Mar 3^rd, 2015 at 7:46am

MumboJumbo wrote on Mar 2^nd, 2015 at 3:21pm:

Forfeiture of citizenship.

Thoughts?

Forfeiture of citizenship of a Western, secular, non-Muslim, non-Sharia, pro-gambling, pro-drinking, pro-gender-equality, homosexual-friendly, infidel society is every immigrant Muslim's worst nightmare.

The prospect of being exiled from a Western, secular, non-Muslim, non-Sharia, pro-gambling, pro-drinking, pro-gender-equality, homosexual-friendly, infidel society with its many Welfare Benefit attractions is a 'Worst Case Scenario' for most of the West's religiously hypocritical immigrant Muslims.

Forfeiture of citizenship and forced repatriation to country of ancestral origin should be mandatory for any Australian citizen who is found to be sympathising with the enemies of Western civilisation.

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Lord Herbert Gold Member Offline Posts: 34441 Gender:	Re: How to deal with ISIS Aussies? Reply #18 - Mar 3^rd, 2015 at 7:50am NorthOfNorth wrote on Mar 3^rd, 2015 at 7:24am: And that further resurgent sense of Kurdish identity and prowess that the defeat of IS will bring, Turkey fears more than IS. Correct. And this in turn will see yet another stream of 'persecuted' Muslims entering Australia on the Refugees bandwagon.
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Lord Herbert

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Re: How to deal with ISIS Aussies?
Reply #19 - Mar 3^rd, 2015 at 8:06am

miketrees wrote on Mar 2^nd, 2015 at 4:41pm:

If they were just kids I would do anything to stop them going to Syria.

Wrong.

Let the attraction of ISIS act as a filter to rid our society of those who are the enemy of Western civilisation even at their young age.

The 'just kids' Get-Out-of-Jail-Free card is being hawked and peddled by ABC Lefties and the North Shore luvvies as an apologist ploy to see that these young adults are eventually given nothing more than a slap on the wrist and sent home to their parents.

For political reasons and moral vanity it's always a case of appeasement and concession where Muslims are concerned.

****************

The following is the sort of news that warms the cockles of my heart.

It also demonstrates just how many immigrants are proven to be Undesirables even to the degree that they are expelled from our shores.

It boggles the mind just how many more are lurking in our midst and are yet to be identified and given the Order of the Golden Boot.

.... In just three months ....

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« Last Edit: Mar 3^rd, 2015 at 8:21am by Lord Herbert »

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MumboJumbo

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Re: How to deal with ISIS Aussies?
Reply #20 - Mar 3^rd, 2015 at 10:36am

Lord Herbert wrote on Mar 3^rd, 2015 at 7:46am:

Forfeiture of citizenship and forced repatriation to country of ancestral origin should be mandatory for any Australian citizen who is found to be sympathising with the enemies of Western civilisation.

Why go to the expense? Simply end the citizenship, and leave them in whatever shithole they've flown off to fight in.

Brian Ross wrote on Mar 2^nd, 2015 at 5:46pm:

Unlike you, I take responsibility and believe my nation should as well, when one of it's nationals does something it thinks they shouldn't be, rather than just abandon them and reject them when it disagrees with what they are saying/doing...

Now now kiddies, let's be civil.

What do you all think about the good old crimes of sedition, treason, etc? We could always hit them with that.

There's quite a good review of the policy for and against a crime of sedition here.

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See Profile For Update wrote on Jan 3^rd, 2015 at 2:58pm:

Why the bugger did I get stuck on a planet chalked full of imbeciles?

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polite_gandalf

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Re: How to deal with ISIS Aussies?
Reply #21 - Mar 3^rd, 2015 at 11:04am

MumboJumbo wrote on Mar 2^nd, 2015 at 3:52pm:

But, once they're recruited, the authorities eventually find out they're fighting for/marrying ISIS, right? So why not simply cut the umbilical at a distance. Serve them a writ stating that there's a case being tried to strip their citizenship, and to kindly return home and defend it or the trial will proceed in their absence. Service can be effected by social media -- there's recent case law confirming it. The buggers can stay in Syria and lose their citizenship, or come back to Aus and fight to keep it.

This seems a bit of a non-issue - given that even before this citizen-stripping law, there has already been a law making it a criminal offense to go overseas and fight for non-state actors (which also presumably includes those fighting IS with the kurds).

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Gandalf, I've got a question about Islam for you. From the way you post, I assume you're an Australian-born who converted, is that correct? Do you think that Aussie converts are more vulnerable to radicalization than those who grow up Islamic?

Yes I am. As for the second question, my feeling is no - my impression is that the radicals tend to be the ones who were already nominally muslim, but their islamic upbringing was minimal, and they didn't get much exposure to the islamic community. As they grew up and became more independent they weren't satisfied with their "minimalist" islamic exposure and craved for more. And I hasten to stress that *MOST* people who fall in this category go on to become devout members of the mainstream, peaceful islamic community. However there is a tiny handful who fall into the hands of the non-mainstream extremist preachers, who radicalise them.

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Additionally, from a domestic perspective, couldn't we just keep a close eye on flights to Turkey and it's surrounds?

Not really practical - Turkey is a massive tourist destination, in addition the Turkish/Turkish heritage community is one of our largest muslim populations - so there's obviously going to be a lot of family visits and so forth.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20027 Canberra Gender:	Re: How to deal with ISIS Aussies? Reply #22 - Mar 3^rd, 2015 at 11:07am freediver wrote on Mar 2^nd, 2015 at 6:05pm: Jail them. Stop them from going. That would require being able to identify them before they leave - which evidently not even their own families have been able to do in many cases.
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two minutes hate Full Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 208 Gender:	Re: How to deal with ISIS Aussies? Reply #23 - Mar 3^rd, 2015 at 11:17am I don't know why the government doesn't let them go. If they don't get killed they won't come back to face a hefty prison term. Plus soon they'll be blocked from coming back. Get rid of them!!!!
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polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20027 Canberra Gender:	Re: How to deal with ISIS Aussies? Reply #24 - Mar 3^rd, 2015 at 11:17am NorthOfNorth wrote on Mar 3^rd, 2015 at 7:24am: And that further resurgent sense of Kurdish identity and prowess that the defeat of IS will bring, Turkey fears more than IS. Clearly Turkey wants IS to do enough damage to both the Kurds and Assad to eliminate them both as a threat to Turkey.
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polite_gandalf

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Re: How to deal with ISIS Aussies?
Reply #25 - Mar 3^rd, 2015 at 11:23am

two minutes hate wrote on Mar 3^rd, 2015 at 11:17am:

I don't know why the government doesn't let them go. If they don't get killed they won't come back to face a hefty prison term. Plus soon they'll be blocked from coming back. Get rid of them!!!!

There is another possible risk that occurred to me. And its related to IS's known desire to carry out attacks within western countries - including Australia. Recruits from Australia could conceivably provide them with useful 'insider' information that could assist them in carrying out such an attack. Not really sure what sort of information that could be, but I think its possible.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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|dev|null

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Re: How to deal with ISIS Aussies?
Reply #26 - Mar 3^rd, 2015 at 11:44am

Lord Herbert wrote on Mar 3^rd, 2015 at 7:46am:

Forfeiture of citizenship and forced repatriation to country of ancestral origin should be mandatory for any Australian citizen who is found to be sympathising with the enemies of Western civilisation.

Sensei, which country would the DIMIA send you to? China or the UK? Grin

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"Pens and books are the weapons that defeat terrorism." - Malala Yousefzai, 2013.

"we will never ever solve violence while we grasp for overly simplistic solutions."
Freediver, 2007.

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|dev|null

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Re: How to deal with ISIS Aussies?
Reply #27 - Mar 3^rd, 2015 at 11:45am

Lord Herbert wrote on Mar 3^rd, 2015 at 7:50am:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Mar 3^rd, 2015 at 7:24am:

And that further resurgent sense of Kurdish identity and prowess that the defeat of IS will bring, Turkey fears more than IS.

Correct.

And this in turn will see yet another stream of 'persecuted' Muslims entering Australia on the Refugees bandwagon.

Sensei, weren't you are refugee? Why do you want to pull the drawbridge up, now that you're inside? Grin

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"Pens and books are the weapons that defeat terrorism." - Malala Yousefzai, 2013.

"we will never ever solve violence while we grasp for overly simplistic solutions."
Freediver, 2007.

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Baronvonrort

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Re: How to deal with ISIS Aussies?
Reply #28 - Mar 3^rd, 2015 at 11:59am

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 3^rd, 2015 at 11:17am:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Mar 3^rd, 2015 at 7:24am:

And that further resurgent sense of Kurdish identity and prowess that the defeat of IS will bring, Turkey fears more than IS.

Clearly Turkey wants IS to do enough damage to both the Kurds and Assad to eliminate them both as a threat to Turkey.

The constitution of the Rojava cantons says Kurds will only fight in self defence.

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Leftists and the Ayatollahs have a lot in common when it comes to criticism of Islam, they don't tolerate it.

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polite_gandalf

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Re: How to deal with ISIS Aussies?
Reply #29 - Mar 3^rd, 2015 at 12:21pm

Oh well that settles that then eh Baron Cheesy

You can literally twist any act of military aggression into an act of "self defense".

US new-cons were seriously calling the Iraq invasion self defense. In fact I'm sure you do too Baron.

FD will jump in any moment and make some brilliant quip mocking the idea that Muhammad acted in self defense.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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Poll
Question: Who / What will gain most from IS conflict
Israel 0 (0.0%) Iran 5 (31.2%) Kurdish Independence Cause 2 (12.5%) Western Europe 0 (0.0%) United States 1 (6.2%) All of the Above 6 (37.5%) Islam 2 (12.5%) Total votes: 16 « Last Modified by: NorthOfNorth on: Mar 6^th, 2015 at 7:52am »