Australian Politics Forum - Data retention and metadata used as evidence

Anthony123

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Data retention and metadata used as evidence
Mar 11^th, 2015 at 2:50pm

So my one main concern with regards to how our Justice system will indulge the use of metadata as acceptable evidence in the Courts - I understand the journalists in this country are very concerned about their own perceived rights and privileges but seem to consider the rest of the public not worthy of the same regard by default -as to what will prevent metadataring/verballing and guilty findings because of circumstantial evidence cherrypicked by the security services? What extra measures will be enacted by Law to ensure this won't occur?
Another area of concern, will this metadata be accessible to all the four international government security organisations for perusal? And will a citizen be able to ask if they have been the subject of surveillance and to the extent of this type of privacy intrusion?
There cannot be enough discussion on this matter. Certainly there hasn'nt been enough expert dialogue on the matter from the legal fraternity. Perhaps they see a pot at the end of a smokey grey rainbow?

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Grappler Deep State Feller

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Re: Data retention and metadata used as evidence
Reply #1 - Mar 11^th, 2015 at 4:40pm

Here's your answer in one:-

I can ring ASIO and they know who it is.....I can ask them for some proof of their having interviewed me for a job.... the silence is deafening....

That's your answer....

** perhaps the closest I can get is pointing to an interview in the QANTAS building in Sydney....**

(there's a hint for my cousin-in-law to follow up....)

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

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John Smith

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Re: Data retention and metadata used as evidence
Reply #2 - Mar 11^th, 2015 at 4:49pm

Anthony123 wrote on Mar 11^th, 2015 at 2:50pm:

Another area of concern, will this metadata be accessible to all the four international government security organisations for perusal? And will a citizen be able to ask if they have been the subject of surveillance and to the extent of this type of privacy intrusion?

the biggest problem with the proposed laws the libs are trying to put through it is that it allows ALL law enforcement officials unwarranted access. That means ANY law enforcement officer at any time.

Like that's not a recipe for corruption. It's only a matter of time before it is abused by someone in govt. in the distant future, which will sell the data to marketing companies in order to boost govt. coffers (if some corrupt cop or politician doesn't sell it to them first).

There is a reason why police require a warrant to search your home or car in free thinking democracies.

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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gone Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 744 somewhere Gender:	Re: Data retention and metadata used as evidence Reply #3 - Mar 11^th, 2015 at 5:47pm Stalin would be proud. Australia is probably the 4th most communistic country on this planet....after North Korea, Cuba and Singapore.
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Bobby. Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 106499 Melbourne Gender:	Re: Data retention and metadata used as evidence Reply #4 - Mar 11^th, 2015 at 5:53pm gone wrote on Mar 11^th, 2015 at 5:47pm: Stalin would be proud. Australia is probably the 4th most communistic country on this planet....after North Korea, Cuba and Singapore. Yes - we are already an Orwellian dystopia without the new laws.
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Anthony123

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Re: Data retention and metadata used as evidence
Reply #5 - Mar 11^th, 2015 at 5:53pm

The retention, categorization and cataloging for efficient indexing and archiving allowing ease of future access of large data sets, will allow the Government many commercial and legal opportunities to pursue. Such as national security,taxation and welfare fraud investigations, and provision of information to corporate and commercial operations for profit.
Governments or their pollsters, would also use it to gauge the response over a proposed policy announcemenst the same way commercial organisations currently data-mine user information for responses to consumer advertisements and 'sales campaigns'.
Collection of the 'metadata' will also allow it to on-sell that information for profit to debt collection agencies, credit reporting agencies, fine collections, court order servicing, monitoring of Court Orders, perhaps even to corporations wanting to influence the popular opinion and the outcome of an election......

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John Smith Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 75080 Gender:	Re: Data retention and metadata used as evidence Reply #6 - Mar 11^th, 2015 at 9:59pm I heard a stat. last night (i think it was lateline) where some security expert said that despite meta data being collected in many countries, it has NEVER, NOT EVEN ONCE led to a criminal being caught or terrorist being stopped ... it's all a con to scare everyone into giving up their privacy
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Anthony123

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Re: Data retention and metadata used as evidence
Reply #7 - Mar 12^th, 2015 at 3:00am

Once unfettered access to better quality of information is currently available to profit driven corporations, it will be available in the same manner as Census and ASIC offer data for payment now.
National security being the main driver for necessity of metadata retention is just a furphy to allow the Government to roll this out. The security services will access that information, and use the information to hunting down criminals - I hope they achieve that. Understood though, the only request the security forces will ultimately need to make application through Courts is a warrant to divulge the particular metadata users' name and identity and the other users who they believe might have a connection.
You may not be the person of interest - but you may be someone who simply associates socially/religiously/politically with 'a person of interest'. You too could therefore become a 'person of interest' and unknowingly spied upon, not cursively either. Once you come under the proverbial microscope every part of your past personal financial and personal history will come under scrutiny by an organization that will have at it's disposal a huge body of information without you knowing it is happening. You are kidding yourself if you think that data compiled about you by a national security organization is going to be simply thrown away even if at that point in time there isn't sufficient evidence to bring a charge against you. While the metadata might only be able to be kept for two years, if it is information the security organisation deems necessary to keep for future reference - and it always will deem it that way - then they have the authority to keep that information forever....... because it will be classified as evidence in a investigation that is ongoing.

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gone

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Re: Data retention and metadata used as evidence
Reply #8 - Mar 13^th, 2015 at 6:59pm

Anthony123 wrote on Mar 12^th, 2015 at 3:00am:

Once unfettered access to better quality of information is currently available to profit driven corporations, it will be available in the same manner as Census and ASIC offer data for payment now.
National security being the main driver for necessity of metadata retention is just a furphy to allow the Government to roll this out. The security services will access that information, and use the information to hunting down criminals - I hope they achieve that. Understood though, the only request the security forces will ultimately need to make application through Courts is a warrant to divulge the particular metadata users' name and identity and the other users who they believe might have a connection.
You may not be the person of interest - but you may be someone who simply associates socially/religiously/politically with 'a person of interest'. You too could therefore become a 'person of interest' and unknowingly spied upon, not cursively either. Once you come under the proverbial microscope every part of your past personal financial and personal history will come under scrutiny by an organization that will have at it's disposal a huge body of information without you knowing it is happening. You are kidding yourself if you think that data compiled about you by a national security organization is going to be simply thrown away even if at that point in time there isn't sufficient evidence to bring a charge against you. While the metadata might only be able to be kept for two years, if it is information the security organisation deems necessary to keep for future reference - and it always will deem it that way - then they have the authority to keep that information forever....... because it will be classified as evidence in a investigation that is ongoing.

On top of that, I don't believe a single word the government + the corporate media ever say + write. Whatever they know about you - expect them to know it forever and expect them to share it with anyone on the planet. Whatever they take from you - expect to never get it back. Whatever you own - expect them to take it away from you anytime - for as long as they have a stronger army than you have.

Always expect the worst. Never trust them. They are servants of Satan. Protect yourself from the biggest and most dangerous gang on the land.

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Anthony123

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Re: Data retention and metadata used as evidence
Reply #9 - Mar 19^th, 2015 at 9:20am

Oh yeah!

I was visibly impressed when I watched the clown prince abbot dumbo -declare to all the world that zee Germans have never not once caught any crims operating on the interweb data thingy for goodness knows what, ever. Not like the bottlebrushupthearse stiff upper prit brit anyways....

It all would've gone down so smoothly had it not been for 'zee hopeless hun without zee data retention capability' to make the biggest recorded drug haul by nabbing drug kingpins from 'darknet' hidey holes on the interweb thingy....

yup, the crafty kaiser nabbed those druggie king pins and smashed one of the biggest rdrug rings in the world WITHOUT data retention laws.

if clown prince dumbo abut just kept his mouth shut he would at least be more entertaining if nothing else...
I could get used to watching him say nothing and just nodding his head in reply like the clown prince he is......

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