Australian Politics Forum - The 'moderate Muslim' 5th column in the West

Karnal Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 95896 Gender:	Re: The 'moderate Muslim' 5th column in the West Reply #210 - Apr 14^th, 2015 at 7:48pm Soren wrote on Apr 14^th, 2015 at 7:20pm: Quite a w@nk circle you have assembled there, PB. Which one of you is winning? Don’t be jealous, dear. I’ll see to you later. Would you like one lump or two?
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Brian Ross Gold Member Offline Representative of me Posts: 41932	Re: The 'moderate Muslim' 5th column in the West Reply #211 - Apr 14^th, 2015 at 8:03pm Soren wrote on Apr 14^th, 2015 at 7:20pm: Quite a w@nk circle you have assembled there, PB. Which one of you is winning? Personally, I've always found soggy-sao games rather distasteful. Don't know about you, Soren, old chap but you're welcome to this attention...
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Karnal

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Re: The 'moderate Muslim' 5th column in the West
Reply #212 - Apr 14^th, 2015 at 8:13pm

Brian Ross wrote on Apr 14^th, 2015 at 8:03pm:

Soren wrote on Apr 14^th, 2015 at 7:20pm:

Quite a w@nk circle you have assembled there, PB.

Which one of you is winning?

Personally, I've always found soggy-sao games rather distasteful.

Oh, they all say that.

Until they get to eat the biscuit, eh old boy?

Miam miam.

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« Last Edit: Apr 14^th, 2015 at 8:20pm by Karnal »

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mothra

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Re: The 'moderate Muslim' 5th column in the West
Reply #213 - Apr 15^th, 2015 at 12:01am

Karnal wrote on Apr 14^th, 2015 at 8:13pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Apr 14^th, 2015 at 8:03pm:

Soren wrote on Apr 14^th, 2015 at 7:20pm:

Quite a w@nk circle you have assembled there, PB.

Which one of you is winning?

Personally, I've always found soggy-sao games rather distasteful.

Oh, they all say that.

Until they get to eat the biscuit, eh old boy?

Miam miam.

Hey Karnal, if i'm a clone off yours, does that make me a circle jerking, homosexual, Pakistani teenage mother?

Just want to know so i can update my profile. Honky is particularly interested in me doing so.

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« Last Edit: Apr 15^th, 2015 at 12:16am by mothra »

If you can't be a good example, you have to be a horrible warning.

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Karnal

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Re: The 'moderate Muslim' 5th column in the West
Reply #214 - Apr 15^th, 2015 at 8:44am

mothra wrote on Apr 15^th, 2015 at 12:01am:

Karnal wrote on Apr 14^th, 2015 at 8:13pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Apr 14^th, 2015 at 8:03pm:

Soren wrote on Apr 14^th, 2015 at 7:20pm:

Quite a w@nk circle you have assembled there, PB.

Which one of you is winning?

Personally, I've always found soggy-sao games rather distasteful.

Oh, they all say that.

Until they get to eat the biscuit, eh old boy?

Miam miam.

Hey Karnal, if i'm a clone off yours, does that make me a circle jerking, homosexual, Pakistani teenage mother?

It most definitely does, Mother. And if you’re not good, the old boy will put you over his lap and give you a jolly good carpetbombing.

Clash of civilisations, innit.

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Soren

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Re: The 'moderate Muslim' 5th column in the West
Reply #215 - Apr 15^th, 2015 at 9:01am

mothra wrote on Apr 15^th, 2015 at 12:01am:

Karnal wrote on Apr 14^th, 2015 at 8:13pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Apr 14^th, 2015 at 8:03pm:

Soren wrote on Apr 14^th, 2015 at 7:20pm:

Quite a w@nk circle you have assembled there, PB.

Which one of you is winning?

Personally, I've always found soggy-sao games rather distasteful.

Oh, they all say that.

Until they get to eat the biscuit, eh old boy?

Miam miam.

Hey Karnal, if i'm a clone off yours, does that make me a circle jerking, homosexual, Pakistani teenage mother?

Yes.

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mothra

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Re: The 'moderate Muslim' 5th column in the West
Reply #216 - Apr 16^th, 2015 at 2:07pm

Karnal wrote on Apr 15^th, 2015 at 8:44am:

mothra wrote on Apr 15^th, 2015 at 12:01am:

Karnal wrote on Apr 14^th, 2015 at 8:13pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Apr 14^th, 2015 at 8:03pm:

Soren wrote on Apr 14^th, 2015 at 7:20pm:

Quite a w@nk circle you have assembled there, PB.

Which one of you is winning?

Personally, I've always found soggy-sao games rather distasteful.

Oh, they all say that.

Until they get to eat the biscuit, eh old boy?

Miam miam.

Hey Karnal, if i'm a clone off yours, does that make me a circle jerking, homosexual, Pakistani teenage mother?

It most definitely does, Mother. And if you’re not good, the old boy will put you over his lap and give you a jolly good carpetbombing.

Clash of civilisations, innit.

Getting a bit tricky. I was called "old and lonely" in the other thread.

Some of my characteristics are beginning to contradict others. I kinda got my head around homosexual teenage mother .... but it's getting complicated now.

Suppose it's just a personalised representation of civilisation clash.

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If you can't be a good example, you have to be a horrible warning.

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Anthony123

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Re: The 'moderate Muslim' 5th column in the West
Reply #217 - Apr 16^th, 2015 at 2:30pm

There is no such animal as a moderate musso.
You are either a musso or you aren't.
There are varying degrees of fanaticism, but even the less fanatical mussos are forbiddeen to make judgement over whatever another musso does in the name of allah.

I says so in their hocus pocus story book of lies and deceit.

Only allah is allowed to judge the works of another musso whether or not what they do is illegal.
The koan says it is righteous to wage war against non-musso's. It says so in the manual for terrorism. So you don't here the imams syaing much more than ambiguous statements and empty polli speak.

Think Goebells 1930's Germany pre WW2

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mothra

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Re: The 'moderate Muslim' 5th column in the West
Reply #218 - Apr 16^th, 2015 at 3:56pm

Anthony123 wrote on Apr 16^th, 2015 at 2:30pm:

There is no such animal as a moderate musso.
You are either a musso or you aren't.
There are varying degrees of fanaticism, but even the less fanatical mussos are forbiddeen to make judgement over whatever another musso does in the name of allah.

I says so in their hocus pocus story book of lies and deceit.

Only allah is allowed to judge the works of another musso whether or not what they do is illegal.
The koan says it is righteous to wage war against non-musso's. It says so in the manual for terrorism. So you don't here the imams syaing much more than ambiguous statements and empty polli speak.

Think Goebells 1930's Germany pre WW2

What a load of tripe. Moderate Muslim have long spoken out against fanatical Muslims. Moderate Muslims have reported fanatical plants in mosques to the authorities. Moderate Muslims bear no resemblance at all to fanatics.

The Qur'an, like the Bible says many things, many of which are not applicable to today and not held as law by its followers. The Bible, for instance,says it's ok to keep slaves. We don't do that anymore now do we?

In fact, there is much in the Qur'an that forbids terrorism. There is no "handbook for terrorism" and the Qur'an does NOT say it is righteous to wage war against non-Muslims.

"“There is no compulsion in religion. The right way has become distinct from error.” (-The Cow, 2:256).

Note that this verse was revealed in Medina in 622 AD or after and was never abrogated by any other verse of the Qur'an. Islam’s holy book forbids coercing people into adopting any religion. They have to willingly choose it.

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If you can't be a good example, you have to be a horrible warning.

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polite_gandalf

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Re: The 'moderate Muslim' 5th column in the West
Reply #219 - Apr 16^th, 2015 at 4:24pm

Just on this notion of abrogation - it doesn't really stand up to scrutiny.

The standard view amongst non-muslims (and regrettably many muslims) is that the earlier Meccan verses' emphasis on tolerance and peace merely reflected a policy of expediency - motivated by the precarious position the muslims were in while firmly under the thumb of the dominant Quraish tribe. Then after they escaped the Quraysh and achieved independence and military might in Medina, suddenly the warmongering verses came out.

This is an ignorant reading of the Quran IMO. My reading is that the so called 'war' verses in the Medina surras were very carefully and deliberately presented after the context for war had been firmly laid out in the earlier verses. "fighting is permitted to you" - reads one famous verse - but only after all avenues for peace had been exhausted. Its not reflecting a change of circumstances - its revealing the permissibility of war only after emphasising the default or preferred position of peace.

mothra wrote on Apr 16^th, 2015 at 3:56pm:

Note that this verse was revealed in Medina in 622 AD or after and was never abrogated by any other verse of the Qur'an. Islam’s holy book forbids coercing people into adopting any religion. They have to willingly choose it.

Another medina verse:

"By which Allah guides those who pursue His pleasure to the ways of peace and brings them out from darknesses into the light, by His permission, and guides them to a straight path." 5:16

For those willing to follow God - they in turn will be shown the ways of peace. You couldn't get a more powerful endorsement of peace over war.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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mothra

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Re: The 'moderate Muslim' 5th column in the West
Reply #220 - Apr 16^th, 2015 at 4:35pm

I never can understand those the insistence of some to take everything written in the Qur'an literally and at face value whilst not applying the exact same to the Bible ... or the Torah.

It takes theologians decades to get to the point of reasoned debate .. and the great unwashed think they can sum up the worst of human behaviour by reading a few bigoted web sites and following the Murdoch press.

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If you can't be a good example, you have to be a horrible warning.

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polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20027 Canberra Gender:	Re: The 'moderate Muslim' 5th column in the West Reply #221 - Apr 16^th, 2015 at 5:50pm muslims themselves are guilty of viewing the Quran through a temporal lens. In fact the Quran is, at its core, a manual on spiritual enlightenment. Missing that misses the whole point of Islam IMO.
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mothra

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Re: The 'moderate Muslim' 5th column in the West
Reply #222 - Apr 16^th, 2015 at 6:55pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 16^th, 2015 at 5:50pm:

muslims themselves are guilty of viewing the Quran through a temporal lens. In fact the Quran is, at its core, a manual on spiritual enlightenment. Missing that misses the whole point of Islam IMO.

Well, in the interests of fair play, Muslims should have the right to be made up of a percentage that misinterprets their holy teachings. Lord only knows all the other major religions are.

Somehow though, the other main religions get away with it.

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If you can't be a good example, you have to be a horrible warning.

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Karnal

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Re: The 'moderate Muslim' 5th column in the West
Reply #223 - Apr 16^th, 2015 at 7:53pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 16^th, 2015 at 4:24pm:

Just on this notion of abrogation - it doesn't really stand up to scrutiny.

The standard view amongst non-muslims (and regrettably many muslims) is that the earlier Meccan verses' emphasis on tolerance and peace merely reflected a policy of expediency - motivated by the precarious position the muslims were in while firmly under the thumb of the dominant Quraish tribe. Then after they escaped the Quraysh and achieved independence and military might in Medina, suddenly the warmongering verses came out.

This is an ignorant reading of the Quran IMO. My reading is that the so called 'war' verses in the Medina surras were very carefully and deliberately presented after the context for war had been firmly laid out in the earlier verses. "fighting is permitted to you" - reads one famous verse - but only after all avenues for peace had been exhausted. Its not reflecting a change of circumstances - its revealing the permissibility of war only after emphasising the default or preferred position of peace.

mothra wrote on Apr 16^th, 2015 at 3:56pm:

Note that this verse was revealed in Medina in 622 AD or after and was never abrogated by any other verse of the Qur'an. Islam’s holy book forbids coercing people into adopting any religion. They have to willingly choose it.

Another medina verse:

"By which Allah guides those who pursue His pleasure to the ways of peace and brings them out from darknesses into the light, by His permission, and guides them to a straight path." 5:16

For those willing to follow God - they in turn will be shown the ways of peace. You couldn't get a more powerful endorsement of peace over war.

Google: taqiyya.

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