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The Share Of The Pie For Workers Is Going Down (Read 5524 times)
Swagman
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Re: The Share Of The Pie For Workers Is Going Down
Reply #15 - Apr 25th, 2015 at 12:56pm
 
Dnarever wrote on Apr 25th, 2015 at 11:40am:
Swagman wrote on Apr 25th, 2015 at 11:25am:
Dnarever wrote on Apr 25th, 2015 at 8:43am:
The Share Of The Pie For Workers Is Going Down

Let them eat cake ?


....do you mean work a bit harder to boost productivity?



They have been doing that for decades while watching their share being eroded while the boss has been taking a bigger share for doing less.


.....a bigger share for doing less is increased productivity.  Productivity is declining.  If it was increasing, the workers pie (everyone's piece) would be getting bigger. 

The share of the worker's and everyone's pie is heading off-shore because the unions and its political arm the Labor party are pricing labour out of the domestic 'market.  Have done for years.  Buying a standard of living on debt and anti-competition.  Now we are paying (well borrowing) for it.

That's why manufacturing has allbut shut down and left the building and you dopey specimens are trying to blame the Coalition?

The bosses, well they'll just head off shore too and take their capital with them.  Then the workers will have no cake to eat at all.
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rhino
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Re: The Share Of The Pie For Workers Is Going Down
Reply #16 - Apr 25th, 2015 at 1:15pm
 
Swagman wrote on Apr 25th, 2015 at 12:56pm:
Productivity is declining. 
Wrong. productivity is increasing and has done enormously since the 1980s.
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Dnarever
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Re: The Share Of The Pie For Workers Is Going Down
Reply #17 - Apr 25th, 2015 at 1:57pm
 
Swagman wrote on Apr 25th, 2015 at 12:56pm:
Dnarever wrote on Apr 25th, 2015 at 11:40am:
Swagman wrote on Apr 25th, 2015 at 11:25am:
Dnarever wrote on Apr 25th, 2015 at 8:43am:
The Share Of The Pie For Workers Is Going Down

Let them eat cake ?


....do you mean work a bit harder to boost productivity?



They have been doing that for decades while watching their share being eroded while the boss has been taking a bigger share for doing less.


.....a bigger share for doing less is increased productivity.  Productivity is declining.  If it was increasing, the workers pie (everyone's piece) would be getting bigger. 

The share of the worker's and everyone's pie is heading off-shore because the unions and its political arm the Labor party are pricing labour out of the domestic 'market.  Have done for years.  Buying a standard of living on debt and anti-competition.  Now we are paying (well borrowing) for it.

That's why manufacturing has allbut shut down and left the building and you dopey specimens are trying to blame the Coalition?

The bosses, well they'll just head off shore too and take their capital with them.  Then the workers will have no cake to eat at all.


.....a bigger share for doing less is increased productivity.


Not when they are just taking the bigger shear from someone else.

Productivity is declining.  If it was increasing, the workers pie (everyone's piece) would be getting bigger. 


Yes the pie is increasing the problem is that one group are taking virtually all the increases. They are pie pigs.
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crocodile
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Re: The Share Of The Pie For Workers Is Going Down
Reply #18 - Apr 25th, 2015 at 2:20pm
 
rhino wrote on Apr 25th, 2015 at 1:15pm:
Swagman wrote on Apr 25th, 2015 at 12:56pm:
Productivity is declining. 
Wrong. productivity is increasing and has done enormously since the 1980s.


Don't think so. You've been reading fairy tales.


...

In fact this is the primary reason for the shrinking pie. Productivity, especially capital productivity has been in serious decline for over fifteen years now with nary a word from our political geniuses. Multifactor has been in negative territory for seven long years now. Don't expect the share of the pie to grow any time soon.
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Very funny Scotty, now beam down my clothes.
 
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Swagman
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Re: The Share Of The Pie For Workers Is Going Down
Reply #19 - Apr 26th, 2015 at 10:25am
 
crocodile wrote on Apr 25th, 2015 at 2:20pm:
    rhino wrote on Apr 25th, 2015 at 1:15pm:
Swagman wrote on Apr 25th, 2015 at 12:56pm:
Productivity is declining. 
Wrong. productivity is increasing and has done enormously since the 1980s.


Don't think so. You've been reading fairy tales.



Yes don't let the facts get in the way of a good fairy tale there Rhino Old Bean..... Cheesy 

crocodile wrote on Apr 25th, 2015 at 2:20pm:
In fact this is the primary reason for the shrinking pie. Productivity, especially capital productivity has been in serious decline for over fifteen years now with nary a word from our political geniuses. Multifactor has been in negative territory for seven long years now. Don't expect the share of the pie to grow any time soon.


....tactics that increase productivity (such as Workchoices) are nary popular vote buyers in our ochlocracy?  Sad

Killed off by 'fairy tales', misinformation and propaganda campaigns by the ACTU and its political hacks in the Labor party.  Sad

Shooting themselves in the foot (and hamstringing Australia) at every turn.... Sad
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imcrookonit
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Re: The Share Of The Pie For Workers Is Going Down
Reply #20 - Apr 26th, 2015 at 10:47am
 
Workchoices.       Shocked    Shocked    Shocked    Shocked    Shocked    Shocked        
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Swagman
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Re: The Share Of The Pie For Workers Is Going Down
Reply #21 - Apr 26th, 2015 at 10:49am
 
Quote:
Workchoices.       Shocked    Shocked    Shocked    Shocked    Shocked    Shocked        


Swagman wrote on Apr 26th, 2015 at 10:25am:
Killed off by 'fairy tales', misinformation and propaganda campaigns by the ACTU and its political hacks in the Labor party


.....didn't take long for one to manifest.   Cheesy
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Bam
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Re: The Share Of The Pie For Workers Is Going Down
Reply #22 - Apr 26th, 2015 at 11:17am
 
Dnarever wrote on Apr 25th, 2015 at 1:57pm:
Swagman wrote on Apr 25th, 2015 at 12:56pm:
.....a bigger share for doing less is increased productivity.  Productivity is declining.  If it was increasing, the workers pie (everyone's piece) would be getting bigger.

Yes the pie is increasing the problem is that one group are taking virtually all the increases. They are pie pigs.

Indeed ... if we were to measure income by quintiles in the past 50 years, the bottom quintile has gone backwards (fewer jobs) and the top quintile has increased their share massively, far greater than their productivity.
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You are not entitled to your opinion. You are only entitled to hold opinions that you can defend through sound, reasoned argument.
 
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Swagman
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Re: The Share Of The Pie For Workers Is Going Down
Reply #23 - Apr 26th, 2015 at 11:34am
 
Bam wrote on Apr 26th, 2015 at 11:17am:
Dnarever wrote on Apr 25th, 2015 at 1:57pm:
Swagman wrote on Apr 25th, 2015 at 12:56pm:
.....a bigger share for doing less is increased productivity.  Productivity is declining.  If it was increasing, the workers pie (everyone's piece) would be getting bigger.

Yes the pie is increasing the problem is that one group are taking virtually all the increases. They are pie pigs.

Indeed ... if we were to measure income by quintiles in the past 50 years, the bottom quintile has gone backwards (fewer jobs) and the top quintile has increased their share massively, far greater than their productivity.


...obviously the more one contributes to the pie then the bigger the piece one earns.

If one stands still, or walks, then those that are running will get further ahead.  Roll Eyes
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rhino
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Re: The Share Of The Pie For Workers Is Going Down
Reply #24 - Apr 26th, 2015 at 11:35am
 
crocodile wrote on Apr 25th, 2015 at 2:20pm:
rhino wrote on Apr 25th, 2015 at 1:15pm:
Swagman wrote on Apr 25th, 2015 at 12:56pm:
Productivity is declining. 
Wrong. productivity is increasing and has done enormously since the 1980s.


Don't think so. You've been reading fairy tales.


http://www.ampcapital.com/AMPCapitalGlobal/media/contents/Blog/olivers-insights/...

In fact this is the primary reason for the shrinking pie. Productivity, especially capital productivity has been in serious decline for over fifteen years now with nary a word from our political geniuses. Multifactor has been in negative territory for seven long years now. Don't expect the share of the pie to grow any time soon.
Lol, your chart doesnt show productivity in decline. Idiot.
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rhino
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Re: The Share Of The Pie For Workers Is Going Down
Reply #25 - Apr 26th, 2015 at 11:36am
 
Swagman wrote on Apr 26th, 2015 at 10:25am:
crocodile wrote on Apr 25th, 2015 at 2:20pm:
    rhino wrote on Apr 25th, 2015 at 1:15pm:
Swagman wrote on Apr 25th, 2015 at 12:56pm:
Productivity is declining. 
Wrong. productivity is increasing and has done enormously since the 1980s.


Don't think so. You've been reading fairy tales.



Yes don't let the facts get in the way of a good fairy tale there Rhino Old Bean..... Cheesy 

crocodile wrote on Apr 25th, 2015 at 2:20pm:
In fact this is the primary reason for the shrinking pie. Productivity, especially capital productivity has been in serious decline for over fifteen years now with nary a word from our political geniuses. Multifactor has been in negative territory for seven long years now. Don't expect the share of the pie to grow any time soon.


....tactics that increase productivity (such as Workchoices) are nary popular vote buyers in our ochlocracy?  Sad

Killed off by 'fairy tales', misinformation and propaganda campaigns by the ACTU and its political hacks in the Labor party.  Sad

Shooting themselves in the foot (and hamstringing Australia) at every turn.... Sad
that is the facts, backed by the chart the idiot posted.
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Swagman
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Re: The Share Of The Pie For Workers Is Going Down
Reply #26 - Apr 26th, 2015 at 11:52am
 
rhino wrote on Apr 26th, 2015 at 11:35am:
crocodile wrote on Apr 25th, 2015 at 2:20pm:
rhino wrote on Apr 25th, 2015 at 1:15pm:
Swagman wrote on Apr 25th, 2015 at 12:56pm:
Productivity is declining. 
Wrong. productivity is increasing and has done enormously since the 1980s.


Don't think so. You've been reading fairy tales.


http://www.ampcapital.com/AMPCapitalGlobal/media/contents/Blog/olivers-insights/...

In fact this is the primary reason for the shrinking pie. Productivity, especially capital productivity has been in serious decline for over fifteen years now with nary a word from our political geniuses. Multifactor has been in negative territory for seven long years now. Don't expect the share of the pie to grow any time soon.
Lol, your chart doesnt show productivity in decline. Idiot.


Go on?

What does it show then?

...and without pissing in his pocket, I might not agree totally with him all the tim but Croc is far from being an "idiot" and is one of this place's more 'balanced' and 'informative' posters.  Particularly on the subject of 'productivity'.  Huh
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Grappler Deep State Feller
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Re: The Share Of The Pie For Workers Is Going Down
Reply #27 - Apr 26th, 2015 at 12:19pm
 
Swagman wrote on Apr 26th, 2015 at 11:34am:
Bam wrote on Apr 26th, 2015 at 11:17am:
Dnarever wrote on Apr 25th, 2015 at 1:57pm:
Swagman wrote on Apr 25th, 2015 at 12:56pm:
.....a bigger share for doing less is increased productivity.  Productivity is declining.  If it was increasing, the workers pie (everyone's piece) would be getting bigger.

Yes the pie is increasing the problem is that one group are taking virtually all the increases. They are pie pigs.

Indeed ... if we were to measure income by quintiles in the past 50 years, the bottom quintile has gone backwards (fewer jobs) and the top quintile has increased their share massively, far greater than their productivity.


...obviously the more one contributes to the pie then the bigger the piece one earns.

If one stands still, or walks, then those that are running will get further ahead.  Roll Eyes



So the sooner we get full employment going again and a fair go for all, and stabilise revenue by taxing offshored companies, rich dicks, and business the way they used to be - we'll be OK?

Exit Tax on offshored jobs....
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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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Grappler Deep State Feller
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Re: The Share Of The Pie For Workers Is Going Down
Reply #28 - Apr 26th, 2015 at 12:24pm
 
Swagman wrote on Apr 26th, 2015 at 10:25am:
....tactics that increase productivity (such as Workchoices) are nary popular vote buyers in our ochlocracy?  Sad

Killed off by 'fairy tales', misinformation and propaganda campaigns by the ACTU and its political hacks in the Labor party.  Sad

Shooting themselves in the foot (and hamstringing Australia) at every turn.... Sad



Damn - and all this time I was lead to believe that Workchoices was the primary reason for huge pay rises to an unaffordable level via exchanging certain conditions for a higher base rate.

Didn't that negotiated system cause the demise of car manufacturing here, as well as a heap of other things?

It was all going fine until WorkChoices stuffed it up for those poor managers who had no real grasp on what actual costs of operation are.... and couldn't negotiate their way out of a wet paper bag.  They assumed that WorkChoices would hand them power over the workers, but forgot that even ToJo has installed a referee who - in case you haven't noticed - still abides by the principle that you cannot chop lower than the benchmark right now by exchanging one part of IR for another.
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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams
 
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crocodile
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Re: The Share Of The Pie For Workers Is Going Down
Reply #29 - Apr 26th, 2015 at 12:24pm
 
Swagman wrote on Apr 26th, 2015 at 10:25am:
crocodile wrote on Apr 25th, 2015 at 2:20pm:
    rhino wrote on Apr 25th, 2015 at 1:15pm:
Swagman wrote on Apr 25th, 2015 at 12:56pm:
Productivity is declining. 
Wrong. productivity is increasing and has done enormously since the 1980s.


Don't think so. You've been reading fairy tales.



Yes don't let the facts get in the way of a good fairy tale there Rhino Old Bean..... Cheesy 

crocodile wrote on Apr 25th, 2015 at 2:20pm:
In fact this is the primary reason for the shrinking pie. Productivity, especially capital productivity has been in serious decline for over fifteen years now with nary a word from our political geniuses. Multifactor has been in negative territory for seven long years now. Don't expect the share of the pie to grow any time soon.


....tactics that increase productivity (such as Workchoices) are nary popular vote buyers in our ochlocracy?  Sad

Killed off by 'fairy tales', misinformation and propaganda campaigns by the ACTU and its political hacks in the Labor party.  Sad

Shooting themselves in the foot (and hamstringing Australia) at every turn.... Sad


Not quite Swaggie, but at least you are being savvy enough to realise that declining productivity will eventually manifest itself in declining living standards.

The graphs from the previous post show productivity growth rather than productivity itself. This is intentional as graphing only productivity gives an illusion that growth is better than it really is. If you want to extract productivity figures from the growth chart you will need to take the definite integral of the curve.

You will see that growth in productivity on the labour side is still in positive territory at between 1 to 2% pa. Conversely, multifactor productivity is decidedly negative and trending lower in a rather worrisome decline. Since multifactor productivity is the summation of both labour and capital productivity it is clear that the greatest decline in productivity is in the capital side of the equation. The notion that workchoices has or could have a major effect on multifactor productivity doesn't really stand up to scrutiny.

What this actually means is that business is in fact making good use of changing technology and making it available to the workforce as the labour productivity figures demonstrate. The issue is that the same returns are not being found for each dollar of capital input.

This points to long term failures in policy. Misallocation of fixed capital into non productive asset classes, declining investment in R&D and declining investment in public infrastructure.
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Very funny Scotty, now beam down my clothes.
 
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