Australian Politics Forum - The Share Of The Pie For Workers Is Going Down

crocodile

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Re: The Share Of The Pie For Workers Is Going Down
Reply #30 - Apr 26^th, 2015 at 12:28pm

rhino wrote on Apr 26^th, 2015 at 11:35am:

crocodile wrote on Apr 25^th, 2015 at 2:20pm:

rhino wrote on Apr 25^th, 2015 at 1:15pm:

Swagman wrote on Apr 25^th, 2015 at 12:56pm:

Productivity is declining.

Wrong. productivity is increasing and has done enormously since the 1980s.

Don't think so. You've been reading fairy tales.

http://www.ampcapital.com/AMPCapitalGlobal/media/contents/Blog/olivers-insights/...

In fact this is the primary reason for the shrinking pie. Productivity, especially capital productivity has been in serious decline for over fifteen years now with nary a word from our political geniuses. Multifactor has been in negative territory for seven long years now. Don't expect the share of the pie to grow any time soon.

Lol, your chart doesnt show productivity in decline. Idiot.

The curve slopes downwards. Unless the laws of maths have changed in recent times it is representative of a decline. You don't have a clue what you're talking about. Go buy yourself a textbook.

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Very funny Scotty, now beam down my clothes.

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Bam

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Re: The Share Of The Pie For Workers Is Going Down
Reply #31 - Apr 26^th, 2015 at 12:31pm

Swagman wrote on Apr 26^th, 2015 at 11:34am:

Bam wrote on Apr 26^th, 2015 at 11:17am:

Dnarever wrote on Apr 25^th, 2015 at 1:57pm:

Swagman wrote on Apr 25^th, 2015 at 12:56pm:

.....a bigger share for doing less is increased productivity. Productivity is declining. If it was increasing, the workers pie (everyone's piece) would be getting bigger.

Yes the pie is increasing the problem is that one group are taking virtually all the increases. They are pie pigs.

Indeed ... if we were to measure income by quintiles in the past 50 years, the bottom quintile has gone backwards (fewer jobs) and the top quintile has increased their share massively, far greater than their productivity.

...obviously the more one contributes to the pie then the bigger the piece one earns.

Not true.

The workers' productivity has increased in the past 50 years, yet their share of income is smaller.

The average CEO income has increased by a large amount - as much as 20 times the amount that average earnings have increased by in the past 50 years - but there's no way that their productivity has increased by 20 times as much as that of their workforce. A CEO can earn as much in an hour as their workers each make in a month but there's no way they are doing a month's work in an hour.

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You are not entitled to your opinion. You are only entitled to hold opinions that you can defend through sound, reasoned argument.

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gone

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Re: The Share Of The Pie For Workers Is Going Down
Reply #32 - Apr 26^th, 2015 at 2:10pm

aquascoot wrote on Apr 21^st, 2015 at 7:39pm:

this is why one should work in ones own small business and create ones own pie.

Aren't you a slave of the overseas beneficiaries of an international dairy corporation, who sponsor the two main political parties in Australia to keep enforcing their monopoly on the milk trade in Australia...with money they grabbed from you in the first place? Wink

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John Smith

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Re: The Share Of The Pie For Workers Is Going Down
Reply #33 - Apr 26^th, 2015 at 2:31pm

Swagman wrote on Apr 26^th, 2015 at 11:52am:

rhino wrote on Apr 26^th, 2015 at 11:35am:

crocodile wrote on Apr 25^th, 2015 at 2:20pm:

rhino wrote on Apr 25^th, 2015 at 1:15pm:

Swagman wrote on Apr 25^th, 2015 at 12:56pm:

Productivity is declining.

Wrong. productivity is increasing and has done enormously since the 1980s.

Don't think so. You've been reading fairy tales.

http://www.ampcapital.com/AMPCapitalGlobal/media/contents/Blog/olivers-insights/...

In fact this is the primary reason for the shrinking pie. Productivity, especially capital productivity has been in serious decline for over fifteen years now with nary a word from our political geniuses. Multifactor has been in negative territory for seven long years now. Don't expect the share of the pie to grow any time soon.

Lol, your chart doesnt show productivity in decline. Idiot.

Go on?

What does it show then?

...and without pissing in his pocket, I might not agree totally with him all the tim but Croc is far from being an "idiot" and is one of this place's more 'balanced' and 'informative' posters. Particularly on the subject of 'productivity'. Huh

it shows a decline in the rate of growth of productivity ... productivity growing at 1% might be growing slower than the 3.5% it was growing at 10 yrs ago, but it is still growing. (I'm limiting my comment to labor productivity because the thread is about the share for 'WORKERS')

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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Re: The Share Of The Pie For Workers Is Going Down
Reply #34 - Apr 26^th, 2015 at 2:40pm

If all people had the courage to demonstrate and strike we could change the system from unfair to fair within a week. It would only take a few days of EVERYONE laying down their work and rocking up in front of every council, State and Federal Parliament and ENFORCE change. But too many cowards in society. I like the French, when they take their CEO's hostage to enforce fairer pay and working conditions.

Actually it wouldn't even require EVERYONE. Maybe 60% of the population would be enough.

The only reason why the rich and their puppets get away with robbing the working class is because people are submissive, apathetic cowards.

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crocodile

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Re: The Share Of The Pie For Workers Is Going Down
Reply #35 - Apr 26^th, 2015 at 5:17pm

Bam wrote on Apr 26^th, 2015 at 12:31pm:

Swagman wrote on Apr 26^th, 2015 at 11:34am:

Bam wrote on Apr 26^th, 2015 at 11:17am:

Dnarever wrote on Apr 25^th, 2015 at 1:57pm:

Swagman wrote on Apr 25^th, 2015 at 12:56pm:

.....a bigger share for doing less is increased productivity. Productivity is declining. If it was increasing, the workers pie (everyone's piece) would be getting bigger.

Yes the pie is increasing the problem is that one group are taking virtually all the increases. They are pie pigs.

Indeed ... if we were to measure income by quintiles in the past 50 years, the bottom quintile has gone backwards (fewer jobs) and the top quintile has increased their share massively, far greater than their productivity.

...obviously the more one contributes to the pie then the bigger the piece one earns.

Not true.

The workers' productivity has increased in the past 50 years, yet their share of income is smaller.

The average CEO income has increased by a large amount - as much as 20 times the amount that average earnings have increased by in the past 50 years - but there's no way that their productivity has increased by 20 times as much as that of their workforce. A CEO can earn as much in an hour as their workers each make in a month but there's no way they are doing a month's work in an hour.

Unfortunately it is too true. There is no measure of 'Workers' productivity'. Just because one of the descriptors happens to be Labour Productivity doesn't equate it to productivity of personal effort. Labour productivity is the measure of output per man hour worked. The substantial contributor is the uptake of technology that the workers use to do their jobs. Increases in labour productivity are a direct result of the provisions of technology. In other words, the business owners are updating equipment.

This is why capital productivity cannot be ignored and labour productivity cannot be treated in the singular. Declining capital productivity indicates that the cost of providing new technology is increasing at a faster rate than utilisation can match. Add the two components together and derive multifactor productivity. This is the one that matters. With this in decline it simply means that any productivity gains brought on by availing the workforce of new technology is more than wiped out by the cost of doing so.

That is why the pie is shrinking.

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Very funny Scotty, now beam down my clothes.

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rhino

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Re: The Share Of The Pie For Workers Is Going Down
Reply #36 - Apr 26^th, 2015 at 5:45pm

crocodile wrote on Apr 26^th, 2015 at 12:28pm:

rhino wrote on Apr 26^th, 2015 at 11:35am:

crocodile wrote on Apr 25^th, 2015 at 2:20pm:

rhino wrote on Apr 25^th, 2015 at 1:15pm:

Swagman wrote on Apr 25^th, 2015 at 12:56pm:

Productivity is declining.

Wrong. productivity is increasing and has done enormously since the 1980s.

Don't think so. You've been reading fairy tales.

http://www.ampcapital.com/AMPCapitalGlobal/media/contents/Blog/olivers-insights/...

In fact this is the primary reason for the shrinking pie. Productivity, especially capital productivity has been in serious decline for over fifteen years now with nary a word from our political geniuses. Multifactor has been in negative territory for seven long years now. Don't expect the share of the pie to grow any time soon.

Lol, your chart doesnt show productivity in decline. Idiot.

The curve slopes downwards. Unless the laws of maths have changed in recent times it is representative of a decline. You don't have a clue what you're talking about. Go buy yourself a textbook.

And i suggest you buy a book on basic logic. Its the rate of growth that has slowed, not reversed. i.e. growth still happening but not as quickly. my comment that productivity growth has been constant since the 80s is correct. Now put a dunce cap on and go and sit in the corner.

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crocodile

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Re: The Share Of The Pie For Workers Is Going Down
Reply #37 - Apr 26^th, 2015 at 5:54pm

John Smith wrote on Apr 26^th, 2015 at 2:31pm:

Swagman wrote on Apr 26^th, 2015 at 11:52am:

rhino wrote on Apr 26^th, 2015 at 11:35am:

crocodile wrote on Apr 25^th, 2015 at 2:20pm:

rhino wrote on Apr 25^th, 2015 at 1:15pm:

Swagman wrote on Apr 25^th, 2015 at 12:56pm:

Productivity is declining.

Wrong. productivity is increasing and has done enormously since the 1980s.

Don't think so. You've been reading fairy tales.

http://www.ampcapital.com/AMPCapitalGlobal/media/contents/Blog/olivers-insights/...

In fact this is the primary reason for the shrinking pie. Productivity, especially capital productivity has been in serious decline for over fifteen years now with nary a word from our political geniuses. Multifactor has been in negative territory for seven long years now. Don't expect the share of the pie to grow any time soon.

Lol, your chart doesnt show productivity in decline. Idiot.

Go on?

What does it show then?

...and without pissing in his pocket, I might not agree totally with him all the tim but Croc is far from being an "idiot" and is one of this place's more 'balanced' and 'informative' posters. Particularly on the subject of 'productivity'. Huh

it shows a decline in the rate of growth of productivity ... productivity growing at 1% might be growing slower than the 3.5% it was growing at 10 yrs ago, but it is still growing. (I'm limiting my comment to labor productivity because the thread is about the share for 'WORKERS')

John, unfortunately you have fallen into the same trap as Bam. Labour productivity, despite it's name is not a measure of personal effort. It is the measure of production per man hour. The main driver of this is the uptake of technology. It has little to do with personal effort.

You can't simply ignore capital productivity since it relates to the cost of the provision of technology and fixed operating costs.

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Very funny Scotty, now beam down my clothes.

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crocodile

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Re: The Share Of The Pie For Workers Is Going Down
Reply #38 - Apr 26^th, 2015 at 6:07pm

rhino wrote on Apr 26^th, 2015 at 5:45pm:

crocodile wrote on Apr 26^th, 2015 at 12:28pm:

rhino wrote on Apr 26^th, 2015 at 11:35am:

crocodile wrote on Apr 25^th, 2015 at 2:20pm:

rhino wrote on Apr 25^th, 2015 at 1:15pm:

Swagman wrote on Apr 25^th, 2015 at 12:56pm:

Productivity is declining.

Wrong. productivity is increasing and has done enormously since the 1980s.

Don't think so. You've been reading fairy tales.

http://www.ampcapital.com/AMPCapitalGlobal/media/contents/Blog/olivers-insights/...

In fact this is the primary reason for the shrinking pie. Productivity, especially capital productivity has been in serious decline for over fifteen years now with nary a word from our political geniuses. Multifactor has been in negative territory for seven long years now. Don't expect the share of the pie to grow any time soon.

Lol, your chart doesnt show productivity in decline. Idiot.

The curve slopes downwards. Unless the laws of maths have changed in recent times it is representative of a decline. You don't have a clue what you're talking about. Go buy yourself a textbook.

And i suggest you buy a book on basic logic. Its the rate of growth that has slowed, not reversed. i.e. growth still happening but not as quickly. my comment that productivity growth has been constant since the 80s is correct. Now put a dunce cap on and go and sit in the corner.

Multifactor Productivity ( the one that matters ) is in negative territory. That's negative growth.

Let's chart actual productivity rather than growth instead.

Capital productivity is in serious decline. Add capital and labour together to reveal multifactor productivity. It is also in serious decline. You badly need a textbook. Give yourself an uppercut.

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Very funny Scotty, now beam down my clothes.

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rhino Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 17179 Gender:	Re: The Share Of The Pie For Workers Is Going Down Reply #39 - Apr 26^th, 2015 at 6:39pm Lol, of course. Rule number one. When proven wrong just pretend that wasnt what you were talking about. The dunce cap fits you well.
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crocodile Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 6683 Gender:	Re: The Share Of The Pie For Workers Is Going Down Reply #40 - Apr 26^th, 2015 at 6:48pm rhino wrote on Apr 26^th, 2015 at 6:39pm: Lol, of course. Rule number one. When proven wrong just pretend that wasnt what you were talking about. The dunce cap fits you well. You haven't proven anything. Productivity is down and demonstrably so. You're making a goose out of yourself. Keep it coming.
Back to top	Very funny Scotty, now beam down my clothes. IP Logged

John Smith

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Re: The Share Of The Pie For Workers Is Going Down
Reply #41 - Apr 26^th, 2015 at 7:23pm

crocodile wrote on Apr 26^th, 2015 at 5:54pm:

John Smith wrote on Apr 26^th, 2015 at 2:31pm:

Swagman wrote on Apr 26^th, 2015 at 11:52am:

rhino wrote on Apr 26^th, 2015 at 11:35am:

crocodile wrote on Apr 25^th, 2015 at 2:20pm:

rhino wrote on Apr 25^th, 2015 at 1:15pm:

Swagman wrote on Apr 25^th, 2015 at 12:56pm:

Productivity is declining.

Wrong. productivity is increasing and has done enormously since the 1980s.

Don't think so. You've been reading fairy tales.

http://www.ampcapital.com/AMPCapitalGlobal/media/contents/Blog/olivers-insights/...

In fact this is the primary reason for the shrinking pie. Productivity, especially capital productivity has been in serious decline for over fifteen years now with nary a word from our political geniuses. Multifactor has been in negative territory for seven long years now. Don't expect the share of the pie to grow any time soon.

Lol, your chart doesnt show productivity in decline. Idiot.

Go on?

What does it show then?

...and without pissing in his pocket, I might not agree totally with him all the tim but Croc is far from being an "idiot" and is one of this place's more 'balanced' and 'informative' posters. Particularly on the subject of 'productivity'. Huh

it shows a decline in the rate of growth of productivity ... productivity growing at 1% might be growing slower than the 3.5% it was growing at 10 yrs ago, but it is still growing. (I'm limiting my comment to labor productivity because the thread is about the share for 'WORKERS')

John, unfortunately you have fallen into the same trap as Bam. Labour productivity, despite it's name is not a measure of personal effort. It is the measure of production per man hour. The main driver of this is the uptake of technology. It has little to do with personal effort.

You can't simply ignore capital productivity since it relates to the cost of the provision of technology and fixed operating costs.

so you're saying productivity is down because employers are spending to much money on technology, and not enough on labour? Cheesy

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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Grappler Deep State Feller

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Re: The Share Of The Pie For Workers Is Going Down
Reply #42 - Apr 26^th, 2015 at 7:28pm

The idea that perpetual growth to maintain an economy is a necessity fails against the brick wall that the Earth can only sustain so many people at a level which will permit them to buy finished goods.

Perpetual growth means perpetual conflict between nations for market share, and an inevitable return to the good old days of war as an extension of politics by other means.

The more nations that approximate 'first world' the more potential there is for conflict, and at some point, such conflict between 'developed' countries is inevitable (as opposed to the current mode of neo-colonial conflict by developed countries vs backward and illiterate hill tribesmen - beware the first lesson of WWI - that style of conflict and the leadership it generates is not what you need for a modern mechanised/industrial scale war.

On this 100th Anniversary of Gallipoli landings - I fear for the future of this world and my descendants in it.

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

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John Smith

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Re: The Share Of The Pie For Workers Is Going Down
Reply #43 - Apr 26^th, 2015 at 7:31pm

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Apr 26^th, 2015 at 7:28pm:

The idea that perpetual growth to maintain an economy is a necessity fails against the brick wall that the Earth can only sustain so many people at a level which will permit them to buy finished goods.

some may call it perpetual growth, others call it greed.

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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Grappler Deep State Feller

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Re: The Share Of The Pie For Workers Is Going Down
Reply #44 - Apr 26^th, 2015 at 7:31pm

John Smith wrote on Apr 26^th, 2015 at 7:23pm:

crocodile wrote on Apr 26^th, 2015 at 5:54pm:

John Smith wrote on Apr 26^th, 2015 at 2:31pm:

Swagman wrote on Apr 26^th, 2015 at 11:52am:

rhino wrote on Apr 26^th, 2015 at 11:35am:

crocodile wrote on Apr 25^th, 2015 at 2:20pm:

rhino wrote on Apr 25^th, 2015 at 1:15pm:

Swagman wrote on Apr 25^th, 2015 at 12:56pm:

Productivity is declining.

Wrong. productivity is increasing and has done enormously since the 1980s.

Don't think so. You've been reading fairy tales.

http://www.ampcapital.com/AMPCapitalGlobal/media/contents/Blog/olivers-insights/...

In fact this is the primary reason for the shrinking pie. Productivity, especially capital productivity has been in serious decline for over fifteen years now with nary a word from our political geniuses. Multifactor has been in negative territory for seven long years now. Don't expect the share of the pie to grow any time soon.

Lol, your chart doesnt show productivity in decline. Idiot.

Go on?

What does it show then?

...and without pissing in his pocket, I might not agree totally with him all the tim but Croc is far from being an "idiot" and is one of this place's more 'balanced' and 'informative' posters. Particularly on the subject of 'productivity'. Huh

it shows a decline in the rate of growth of productivity ... productivity growing at 1% might be growing slower than the 3.5% it was growing at 10 yrs ago, but it is still growing. (I'm limiting my comment to labor productivity because the thread is about the share for 'WORKERS')

John, unfortunately you have fallen into the same trap as Bam. Labour productivity, despite it's name is not a measure of personal effort. It is the measure of production per man hour. The main driver of this is the uptake of technology. It has little to do with personal effort.

You can't simply ignore capital productivity since it relates to the cost of the provision of technology and fixed operating costs.

so you're saying productivity is down because employers are spending to much money on technology, and not enough on labour? Cheesy

Technology can become a trap - the more technology you use, the more potential it has to break down etc, and the more you need labour to keep it going.

Beware the syrene call of technology

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

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