Australian Politics Forum - Milne wrong and using dead for political gain

John Smith

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Re: Milne wrong and using dead for political gain
Reply #60 - Apr 23^rd, 2015 at 9:25am

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 23^rd, 2015 at 9:21am:

that is a truly stupid post. The logic is non-existent.

non existent logic is convincing yourself that if Abbott doesn't let them come here, they sit at home and wait to be shot or jailed ... of course they'll go elsewhere ... stopping the boats does not stop the drownings, it just moves them elsewhere.

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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Karnal

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Re: Milne wrong and using dead for political gain
Reply #61 - Apr 23^rd, 2015 at 9:33am

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 23^rd, 2015 at 9:21am:

mothra wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2015 at 8:27pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2015 at 7:10pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2015 at 5:58pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2015 at 5:19pm:

stopping to boats has saved thousands of lives

Rubbish. For that to be true there would have to be a net reduction in asylum seeker deaths by sea globally. There has in fact been a net increase since the boats "stopped".

ah... so the 'gandalf the fool' logic style is to add up deaths on the other side of the world and blame Abbott for them. Interesting.

in OUR locale, ie the one where we can effect change, the boats have stopped. I am sure the success of this policy and the saving of thousands of lives is a difficult thing for you to swallow.

You contradict yourself. You say "the boats have stopped" in "our locale" and this is somehow saving "thousands" of lives while admitting to Ddeaths on the other side of the world".

How are we saving lives if lives are still being lost? The only thing that's changed is the location.

Furthermore, it could be reasonably argued that turning back the boats puts MORE lives at risk than intercepting the boats and helping them reach shore .. or taking the passengers on board a safer vessel. All turning the boats back is achieving, in a very real sense, is more time at sea therefore a higher risk of drowning.

that is a truly stupid post. The logic is non-existent.

And no maths at all.

Idiot.

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Dnarever

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Re: Milne wrong and using dead for political gain
Reply #62 - Apr 23^rd, 2015 at 9:35am

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 23^rd, 2015 at 9:22am:

not disgraceful at all. it is of course embarrassing to people like you to hear someone praising a people and their policies which kill thousands of people a year. But your embarrassment does not make the article bad - merely uneasy to read.

It's way too early to have taken the red pills.

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longweekend58

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Re: Milne wrong and using dead for political gain
Reply #63 - Apr 23^rd, 2015 at 9:53am

John Smith wrote on Apr 23^rd, 2015 at 9:25am:

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 23^rd, 2015 at 9:21am:

that is a truly stupid post. The logic is non-existent.

non existent logic is convincing yourself that if Abbott doesn't let them come here, they sit at home and wait to be shot or jailed ... of course they'll go elsewhere ... stopping the boats does not stop the drownings, it just moves them elsewhere.

from indonesia to Libya?????

That is not a credible argument. But worse is your need to blame ABbott for EVERYTHING, even something like this.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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polite_gandalf

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Re: Milne wrong and using dead for political gain
Reply #64 - Apr 23^rd, 2015 at 9:53am

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2015 at 7:10pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2015 at 5:58pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2015 at 5:19pm:

stopping to boats has saved thousands of lives

Rubbish. For that to be true there would have to be a net reduction in asylum seeker deaths by sea globally. There has in fact been a net increase since the boats "stopped".

ah... so the 'gandalf the fool' logic style is to add up deaths on the other side of the world and blame Abbott for them. Interesting.

in OUR locale, ie the one where we can effect change, the boats have stopped. I am sure the success of this policy and the saving of thousands of lives is a difficult thing for you to swallow.

Whats difficult for me to swallow is this profoundly stupid and narrow minded view that this issue can be dealt with outside a global context. Asylum seekers travelling to Australia are part of a global movement of people, and simply shutting down the boats in our region isn't going to help anyone - unless its part of a global strategy to help and protect the people who would make such dangerous journeys. All we are doing is pushing these people to try other avenues - equally dangerous if not more so - to achieve their goal for asylum and a safe future for their children. We are simply absolving our responsibility and using the sick logic that because we can no longer see the boats and the drowning - therefore the problem is no longer there. Its there alright, and its getting worse and worse, and our "out of sight out of mind" policy is not helping anyone.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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longweekend58

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Re: Milne wrong and using dead for political gain
Reply #65 - Apr 23^rd, 2015 at 9:55am

Karnal wrote on Apr 23^rd, 2015 at 9:33am:

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 23^rd, 2015 at 9:21am:

mothra wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2015 at 8:27pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2015 at 7:10pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2015 at 5:58pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2015 at 5:19pm:

stopping to boats has saved thousands of lives

Rubbish. For that to be true there would have to be a net reduction in asylum seeker deaths by sea globally. There has in fact been a net increase since the boats "stopped".

ah... so the 'gandalf the fool' logic style is to add up deaths on the other side of the world and blame Abbott for them. Interesting.

in OUR locale, ie the one where we can effect change, the boats have stopped. I am sure the success of this policy and the saving of thousands of lives is a difficult thing for you to swallow.

You contradict yourself. You say "the boats have stopped" in "our locale" and this is somehow saving "thousands" of lives while admitting to Ddeaths on the other side of the world".

How are we saving lives if lives are still being lost? The only thing that's changed is the location.

Furthermore, it could be reasonably argued that turning back the boats puts MORE lives at risk than intercepting the boats and helping them reach shore .. or taking the passengers on board a safer vessel. All turning the boats back is achieving, in a very real sense, is more time at sea therefore a higher risk of drowning.

that is a truly stupid post. The logic is non-existent.

And no maths at all.

Idiot.

it is similar to if we ended all road deaths in australia claiming that we have done nothing because they are still dying in other countries. We are ultimately responsible only for actions within our sphere of influence.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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Dnarever

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Re: Milne wrong and using dead for political gain
Reply #66 - Apr 23^rd, 2015 at 10:11am

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 23^rd, 2015 at 9:55am:

it is similar to if we ended all road deaths in australia claiming that we have done nothing because they are still dying in other countries. We are ultimately responsible only for actions within our sphere of influence.

To make the comparison the same you would need to export all drivers to other countries and then claim that the increase in road carnage experienced in those countries was due to the extra traffic generated by Australian drivers.

If drowning were stopped by solving the problem than what you say would be true. However the reality is that we have exported the problem to other areas that have recorded an increase consistent with what would be expected by any reasonable person. We have put more cars on their roads.

Your analogy when put correctly undermines your preferred position.

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mothra

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Re: Milne wrong and using dead for political gain
Reply #67 - Apr 23^rd, 2015 at 10:18am

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 23^rd, 2015 at 9:55am:

Karnal wrote on Apr 23^rd, 2015 at 9:33am:

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 23^rd, 2015 at 9:21am:

mothra wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2015 at 8:27pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2015 at 7:10pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2015 at 5:58pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2015 at 5:19pm:

stopping to boats has saved thousands of lives

Rubbish. For that to be true there would have to be a net reduction in asylum seeker deaths by sea globally. There has in fact been a net increase since the boats "stopped".

ah... so the 'gandalf the fool' logic style is to add up deaths on the other side of the world and blame Abbott for them. Interesting.

in OUR locale, ie the one where we can effect change, the boats have stopped. I am sure the success of this policy and the saving of thousands of lives is a difficult thing for you to swallow.

You contradict yourself. You say "the boats have stopped" in "our locale" and this is somehow saving "thousands" of lives while admitting to Ddeaths on the other side of the world".

How are we saving lives if lives are still being lost? The only thing that's changed is the location.

Furthermore, it could be reasonably argued that turning back the boats puts MORE lives at risk than intercepting the boats and helping them reach shore .. or taking the passengers on board a safer vessel. All turning the boats back is achieving, in a very real sense, is more time at sea therefore a higher risk of drowning.

that is a truly stupid post. The logic is non-existent.

And no maths at all.

Idiot.

it is similar to if we ended all road deaths in australia claiming that we have done nothing because they are still dying in other countries. We are ultimately responsible only for actions within our sphere of influence.

Now THAT is non-existent logic.

Comparing road carnage to desperate people fleeing persecution?

What you fail to understand is that asylum seekers are a global problem and as such the entire total of them are within our sphere of influence. Turning back the boats doesn't stop the boats at all.

How is that such a difficult concept for you?

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If you can't be a good example, you have to be a horrible warning.

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Grendel

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Re: Milne wrong and using dead for political gain
Reply #68 - Apr 23^rd, 2015 at 11:27am

Karnal wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2015 at 2:47pm:

Grendel wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2015 at 1:14pm:

Milne's an idiot, Hanson-Dumb is and the rest of the parliamentary Greens aren't much better.
Roll Eyes

Good to see you providing some much-needed balance here, Grendel. These snide remarks against Mr Abbott are getting out of hand.

You could always prove me wrong or try some form of factual refutation for a change Troll.
No?
How usual for you Grin

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Karnal

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Re: Milne wrong and using dead for political gain
Reply #69 - Apr 23^rd, 2015 at 12:30pm

Grendel wrote on Apr 23^rd, 2015 at 11:27am:

Karnal wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2015 at 2:47pm:

Grendel wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2015 at 1:14pm:

Milne's an idiot, Hanson-Dumb is and the rest of the parliamentary Greens aren't much better.
Roll Eyes

Good to see you providing some much-needed balance here, Grendel. These snide remarks against Mr Abbott are getting out of hand.

You could always prove me wrong or try some form of factual refutation for a change Troll.
No?
How usual for you Grin

You're right, Grendel. I could list all of Christine Milne's 57 lies - lie by inference, lie by omission, lie by slandering Mr Abbott etc, etc, but I know you want to keep the focus on the victims here.

I'm aware also that your laughter is really a way of covering up your tears for the families of this shocking tragedy - one of the worst marine disasters in living memory.

I'm with you, Grendel. We wouldn't want to turn such a tragedy into a political bunfight. That's what the leftards do.

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longweekend58

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Re: Milne wrong and using dead for political gain
Reply #70 - Apr 23^rd, 2015 at 12:56pm

mothra wrote on Apr 23^rd, 2015 at 10:18am:

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 23^rd, 2015 at 9:55am:

Karnal wrote on Apr 23^rd, 2015 at 9:33am:

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 23^rd, 2015 at 9:21am:

mothra wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2015 at 8:27pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2015 at 7:10pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2015 at 5:58pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2015 at 5:19pm:

stopping to boats has saved thousands of lives

Rubbish. For that to be true there would have to be a net reduction in asylum seeker deaths by sea globally. There has in fact been a net increase since the boats "stopped".

ah... so the 'gandalf the fool' logic style is to add up deaths on the other side of the world and blame Abbott for them. Interesting.

in OUR locale, ie the one where we can effect change, the boats have stopped. I am sure the success of this policy and the saving of thousands of lives is a difficult thing for you to swallow.

You contradict yourself. You say "the boats have stopped" in "our locale" and this is somehow saving "thousands" of lives while admitting to Ddeaths on the other side of the world".

How are we saving lives if lives are still being lost? The only thing that's changed is the location.

Furthermore, it could be reasonably argued that turning back the boats puts MORE lives at risk than intercepting the boats and helping them reach shore .. or taking the passengers on board a safer vessel. All turning the boats back is achieving, in a very real sense, is more time at sea therefore a higher risk of drowning.

that is a truly stupid post. The logic is non-existent.

And no maths at all.

Idiot.

it is similar to if we ended all road deaths in australia claiming that we have done nothing because they are still dying in other countries. We are ultimately responsible only for actions within our sphere of influence.

Now THAT is non-existent logic.

Comparing road carnage to desperate people fleeing persecution?

What you fail to understand is that asylum seekers are a global problem and as such the entire total of them are within our sphere of influence. Turning back the boats doesn't stop the boats at all.

How is that such a difficult concept for you?

that is beyond idiotic. if you want to blame Abbott for anything then you can only rightly blame him for for areas under his sphere of influence. to do anything else is dumb. The boat drownings HAVE stopped over here and is therefore a success. claiming a drowning off libya has anything to do with Abbott i beyond insane.

and for all your talk of higher risks of drowning, the actual figures are ZERO drownings as opposed to a couple thousand in the years before.

by any sane definition of the word, that is a success.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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mothra

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Re: Milne wrong and using dead for political gain
Reply #71 - Apr 23^rd, 2015 at 1:02pm

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 23^rd, 2015 at 12:56pm:

mothra wrote on Apr 23^rd, 2015 at 10:18am:

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 23^rd, 2015 at 9:55am:

Karnal wrote on Apr 23^rd, 2015 at 9:33am:

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 23^rd, 2015 at 9:21am:

mothra wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2015 at 8:27pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2015 at 7:10pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2015 at 5:58pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2015 at 5:19pm:

stopping to boats has saved thousands of lives

Rubbish. For that to be true there would have to be a net reduction in asylum seeker deaths by sea globally. There has in fact been a net increase since the boats "stopped".

ah... so the 'gandalf the fool' logic style is to add up deaths on the other side of the world and blame Abbott for them. Interesting.

in OUR locale, ie the one where we can effect change, the boats have stopped. I am sure the success of this policy and the saving of thousands of lives is a difficult thing for you to swallow.

You contradict yourself. You say "the boats have stopped" in "our locale" and this is somehow saving "thousands" of lives while admitting to Ddeaths on the other side of the world".

How are we saving lives if lives are still being lost? The only thing that's changed is the location.

Furthermore, it could be reasonably argued that turning back the boats puts MORE lives at risk than intercepting the boats and helping them reach shore .. or taking the passengers on board a safer vessel. All turning the boats back is achieving, in a very real sense, is more time at sea therefore a higher risk of drowning.

that is a truly stupid post. The logic is non-existent.

And no maths at all.

Idiot.

it is similar to if we ended all road deaths in australia claiming that we have done nothing because they are still dying in other countries. We are ultimately responsible only for actions within our sphere of influence.

Now THAT is non-existent logic.

Comparing road carnage to desperate people fleeing persecution?

What you fail to understand is that asylum seekers are a global problem and as such the entire total of them are within our sphere of influence. Turning back the boats doesn't stop the boats at all.

How is that such a difficult concept for you?

that is beyond idiotic. if you want to blame Abbott for anything then you can only rightly blame him for for areas under his sphere of influence. to do anything else is dumb. The boat drownings HAVE stopped over here and is therefore a success. claiming a drowning off libya has anything to do with Abbott i beyond insane.

and for all your talk of higher risks of drowning, the actual figures are ZERO drownings as opposed to a couple thousand in the years before.

by any sane definition of the word, that is a success.

You're not following the bouncing ball. Asylum seekers are a global problem. Turning back the boats does not mean there are less boats, just less boats landing here.

And how do you know there are zero drownings/. Firstly,there is a cloak of secrecy around border protection .. none of us know jack shite. Secondly, do you think the media are reporting on the outcome of boats that have been turned back?

Do try to think these things out for yourself. You've had enough people point it out to you now ... time to do a bit of the work on your own.

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If you can't be a good example, you have to be a horrible warning.

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Grendel

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Re: Milne wrong and using dead for political gain
Reply #72 - Apr 23^rd, 2015 at 1:36pm

Karnal wrote on Apr 23^rd, 2015 at 12:30pm:

Grendel wrote on Apr 23^rd, 2015 at 11:27am:

Karnal wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2015 at 2:47pm:

Grendel wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2015 at 1:14pm:

Milne's an idiot, Hanson-Dumb is and the rest of the parliamentary Greens aren't much better.
Roll Eyes

Good to see you providing some much-needed balance here, Grendel. These snide remarks against Mr Abbott are getting out of hand.

You could always prove me wrong or try some form of factual refutation for a change Troll.
No?
How usual for you Grin

You're right, Grendel. I could list all of Christine Milne's 57 lies - lie by inference, lie by omission, lie by slandering Mr Abbott etc, etc, but I know you want to keep the focus on the victims here.

I'm aware also that your laughter is really a way of covering up your tears for the families of this shocking tragedy - one of the worst marine disasters in living memory.

I'm with you, Grendel. We wouldn't want to turn such a tragedy into a political bunfight. That's what the leftards do.

I'm still waiting for that FACTUAL refutation Troll. Roll Eyes

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John Smith

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Re: Milne wrong and using dead for political gain
Reply #73 - Apr 23^rd, 2015 at 1:41pm

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 23^rd, 2015 at 9:53am:

John Smith wrote on Apr 23^rd, 2015 at 9:25am:

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 23^rd, 2015 at 9:21am:

that is a truly stupid post. The logic is non-existent.

non existent logic is convincing yourself that if Abbott doesn't let them come here, they sit at home and wait to be shot or jailed ... of course they'll go elsewhere ... stopping the boats does not stop the drownings, it just moves them elsewhere.

from indonesia to Libya?????

That is not a credible argument. But worse is your need to blame ABbott for EVERYTHING, even something like this.

not credible is the crap you come up with. They don't start in Indonesia you more on.

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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John Smith

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Re: Milne wrong and using dead for political gain
Reply #74 - Apr 23^rd, 2015 at 1:43pm

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 23^rd, 2015 at 9:55am:

Karnal wrote on Apr 23^rd, 2015 at 9:33am:

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 23^rd, 2015 at 9:21am:

mothra wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2015 at 8:27pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2015 at 7:10pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2015 at 5:58pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2015 at 5:19pm:

stopping to boats has saved thousands of lives

Rubbish. For that to be true there would have to be a net reduction in asylum seeker deaths by sea globally. There has in fact been a net increase since the boats "stopped".

ah... so the 'gandalf the fool' logic style is to add up deaths on the other side of the world and blame Abbott for them. Interesting.

in OUR locale, ie the one where we can effect change, the boats have stopped. I am sure the success of this policy and the saving of thousands of lives is a difficult thing for you to swallow.

You contradict yourself. You say "the boats have stopped" in "our locale" and this is somehow saving "thousands" of lives while admitting to Ddeaths on the other side of the world".

How are we saving lives if lives are still being lost? The only thing that's changed is the location.

Furthermore, it could be reasonably argued that turning back the boats puts MORE lives at risk than intercepting the boats and helping them reach shore .. or taking the passengers on board a safer vessel. All turning the boats back is achieving, in a very real sense, is more time at sea therefore a higher risk of drowning.

that is a truly stupid post. The logic is non-existent.

And no maths at all.

Idiot.

it is similar to if we ended all road deaths in australia claiming that we have done nothing because they are still dying in other countries. We are ultimately responsible only for actions within our sphere of influence.

that's your comparison? And you think Bam gets mocked on this forum?

You're an absolute idiot

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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